Hmmm... I am going to address your post point by point because I found it very interesting and sort of a defense of Shunji. Which is refreshing to read because a lot of us are coming down on him like a ton of bricks while you are trying to understand him more. But in the spirit of "discussion" I am interesting in simply answering back what I thought as I read your post. ;)
I understand this too! It would definitely be maddening for anyone to be outsmarted when trying to catch an elusive foe and to constantly be thwarted. I can imagine that Policeman/Detectives come up against this feeling time and again when trying to catch criminals or solve difficult crimes. But...My problem with Shunji isn't with his feeling of frustration, it is with his methods of dealing with that frustration. His complete and utter dismissal of his moral compass and how he brutalizes those around him to get the answers he wants or worse...when he insanely releases his frustrations on the innocent or unsuspecting people around him. That is where my understanding of his feelings are lost in my disgust of his actions.
True...It would be worse. I again reference my example above. I can imagine if you were frantically looking for a criminal and then discovered it was your best friend it would be heart breaking. But again, Shunji's methods and madness negate my sympathy for him. I envy your ability to see the other side and be more sympathetic to Shunji. You are not alone. (Reference DB's comments on her blog for episode 17)
Here we will have to part company. While it is true that no matter how evil your family is they are still your family, I do not hold to the notion that you should want to join your family in their evil ways just to be accepted. I do not sympathize with Shunji in this regard at all. To me it is the opposite. His knowledge that his brother was a brutal, harsh man and his father is even worse shouldn't make him conform to their cruel ways. I wouldn't want or care for or be accepted by a family that brutalizes and terrorizes others. Acceptance just for the sake of acceptance wouldn't be worth the cost of my heart, my soul and sanity.
As to the part of about the woman you love ~ See my comments above about the strange dynamic in Kdramas regarding the idea that loving someone, even if they never professed to love you back, giving you exclusive rights to that person's actions or feelings. Maybe I would have had more sympathy for Shunji in this regard if he would have held onto his intention regarding Mok Dan for even one second. There is no denying that a lot of things were thrown at Shunji very quickly. There is no denying the pressure he felt from his father and the grief he felt regarding his (totally cruel, arse of a) brother. But in light of his even more insane and horribly cruel actions in the wake of this pressure...his total moral collapse, I cannot excuse his actions now. Understanding his mental break and being okay with it are two different things. My ability to say "Oh! Poor Shunji...oh that poor man" faded about 8 episodes back.
:) I wonder why I have absolutely no more sympathy for him now. It's totally buried. Who else is still able to see the kind, sweet Shunji underneath what is there now and relate to him? I'm curious if I am just too harsh and judgmental about him.
wrote: 1) i understand how mad shinji look like to everyone but at the same time i really do feel like i understand why he is in the situation he is in. for one if you keep getting out smarted by someone you would certainly try to get even and on top of that you dont know who this person even is, anyone would go crazy trying to figure out who this person is.
I understand this too! It would definitely be maddening for anyone to be outsmarted when trying to catch an elusive foe and to constantly be thwarted. I can imagine that Policeman/Detectives come up against this feeling time and again when trying to catch criminals or solve difficult crimes. But...My problem with Shunji isn't with his feeling of frustration, it is with his methods of dealing with that frustration. His complete and utter dismissal of his moral compass and how he brutalizes those around him to get the answers he wants or worse...when he insanely releases his frustrations on the innocent or unsuspecting people around him. That is where my understanding of his feelings are lost in my disgust of his actions.
wrote: 2) 2nd it is even worst when you believe your bff is in league with the enemy.
True...It would be worse. I again reference my example above. I can imagine if you were frantically looking for a criminal and then discovered it was your best friend it would be heart breaking. But again, Shunji's methods and madness negate my sympathy for him. I envy your ability to see the other side and be more sympathetic to Shunji. You are not alone. (Reference DB's comments on her blog for episode 17)
wrote: 3rd no matter how bad and evil your family is, they are still family and even if you disagree with your families way of thinking you still want to be accepted by your own family.
Here we will have to part company. While it is true that no matter how evil your family is they are still your family, I do not hold to the notion that you should want to join your family in their evil ways just to be accepted. I do not sympathize with Shunji in this regard at all. To me it is the opposite. His knowledge that his brother was a brutal, harsh man and his father is even worse shouldn't make him conform to their cruel ways. I wouldn't want or care for or be accepted by a family that brutalizes and terrorizes others. Acceptance just for the sake of acceptance wouldn't be worth the cost of my heart, my soul and sanity.
wrote: 4th the woman you love doesnt listen to you at all even when u try to save them, and on top of that your bff also fell for her. Shinji started out as a nice guy who doesnt seem to know anything at all, and then all of a sudden everything was thrown on to his shoulder, i just feel he pressure got to him and he just cant think straight anymore. I really hate what he does but i really do petty him. And i really do believe if KT did not find out his brother was Gaksital he woulda been just as crazy.
As to the part of about the woman you love ~ See my comments above about the strange dynamic in Kdramas regarding the idea that loving someone, even if they never professed to love you back, giving you exclusive rights to that person's actions or feelings. Maybe I would have had more sympathy for Shunji in this regard if he would have held onto his intention regarding Mok Dan for even one second. There is no denying that a lot of things were thrown at Shunji very quickly. There is no denying the pressure he felt from his father and the grief he felt regarding his (totally cruel, arse of a) brother. But in light of his even more insane and horribly cruel actions in the wake of this pressure...his total moral collapse, I cannot excuse his actions now. Understanding his mental break and being okay with it are two different things. My ability to say "Oh! Poor Shunji...oh that poor man" faded about 8 episodes back.
:) I wonder why I have absolutely no more sympathy for him now. It's totally buried. Who else is still able to see the kind, sweet Shunji underneath what is there now and relate to him? I'm curious if I am just too harsh and judgmental about him.
Jeaniessi wrote: Hmmm... I am going to address your post point by point because I found it very interesting and sort of a defense of Shunji. Which is refreshing to read because a lot of us are coming down on him like a ton of bricks while you are trying to understand him more. But in the spirit of "discussion" I am interesting in simply answering back what I thought as I read your post. ;)
I understand this too! It would definitely be maddening for anyone to be outsmarted when trying to catch an elusive foe and to constantly be thwarted. I can imagine that Policeman/Detectives come up against this feeling time and again when trying to catch criminals or solve difficult crimes. But...My problem with Shunji isn't with his feeling of frustration, it is with his methods of dealing with that frustration. His complete and utter dismissal of his moral compass and how he brutalizes those around him to get the answers he wants or worse...when he insanely releases his frustrations on the innocent or unsuspecting people around him. That is where my understanding of his feelings are lost in my disgust of his actions.
True...It would be worse. I again reference my example above. I can imagine if you were frantically looking for a criminal and then discovered it was your best friend it would be heart breaking. But again, Shunji's methods and madness negate my sympathy for him. I envy your ability to see the other side and be more sympathetic to Shunji. You are not alone. (Reference DB's comments on her blog for episode 17)
Here we will have to part company. While it is true that no matter how evil your family is they are still your family, I do not hold to the notion that you should want to join your family in their evil ways just to be accepted. I do not sympathize with Shunji in this regard at all. To me it is the opposite. His knowledge that his brother was a brutal, harsh man and his father is even worse shouldn't make him conform to their cruel ways. I wouldn't want or care for or be accepted by a family that brutalizes and terrorizes others. Acceptance just for the sake of acceptance wouldn't be worth the cost of my heart, my soul and sanity.
As to the part of about the woman you love ~ See my comments above about the strange dynamic in Kdramas regarding the idea that loving someone, even if they never professed to love you back, giving you exclusive rights to that person's actions or feelings. Maybe I would have had more sympathy for Shunji in this regard if he would have held onto his intention regarding Mok Dan for even one second. There is no denying that a lot of things were thrown at Shunji very quickly. There is no denying the pressure he felt from his father and the grief he felt regarding his (totally cruel, arse of a) brother. But in light of his even more insane and horribly cruel actions in the wake of this pressure...his total moral collapse, I cannot excuse his actions now. Understanding his mental break and being okay with it are two different things. My ability to say "Oh! Poor Shunji...oh that poor man" faded about 8 episodes back.
:) I wonder why I have absolutely no more sympathy for him now. It's totally buried. Who else is still able to see the kind, sweet Shunji underneath what is there now and relate to him? I'm curious if I am just too harsh and judgmental about him.
ahaha i think i'm one of the only ones that still feel sympathy towards shinji, all the other comments i seen so far hates his guts.
But when i think about it, yes shinji is using really brutal methods in achieving what he wants but KT did the same thing in the beginning. KT also tortured ppl to getting answers he want (just think back as to what he did with his brother) it wasnt only later that he regrets hating his brother, but at that moment when he was doing it you can tell KT had lost his mind. I feel the only reason KT did not get as bad as shinji was mainly because of the time difference. The amount of screen time of KT chasing bridal was alot shorter than shinji, KT was saved by his brother from going all out crazy in which he was able to change his life. however shinji at the moment really dont have anyone that can change him and make him realize what he is doing is wrong.
"Acceptance just for the sake of acceptance wouldn't be worth the cost of my heart, my soul and sanity. "
really love this quote, but i think this quote works better in modern day compare to the days in the past. modern day society is all about the freedom and what we want, but from the traditional stand point family is really everything. Maybe i'm able to see this is because my parents are really tradition and the way we are taught its really all about the family. Or maybe its a asian thing, i know back in the day disgracin your family name or doing anything out of the originally is considered like a crime, ppl get kicked out of their family just for a little mistake. And in shinji case you can see in the beginning how he didnt want to be in this family business, but it was quickly changed when he saw his brother get killed and when he saw a chance to help MD in joining his family side.
KT was horrible in the beginning, no doubt. I suppose because he was always intended to be the hero of this piece, albeit a very flawed hero, the audience forgives him his transgressions. And of course, because he has gotten a more fleshed out story and progression to the side of light, I forgive him. His journey has been more complete. His turn around a bit slower but on a steady trajectory toward right. He was always conflicted. Almost in exact polar opposite to Shunji, it took Kang To's mother and brother's deaths, his discovery of Mok Dan's identity and his knowledge of his father's death and the reasons behind it, to turn back into the man he was always intended to be. He started out good, became a puppet to the empire and a slave to his family shame but has now made the turn back to good. And that is more right surely...a progressive turn to the good side is much more forgivable than Shunji's quick turn to the evil side. Right? Hmmmm...
I do love that KT has shown tremendous guilt and remorse for his past actions. When it is all said and done will we see the same from Shunji and/or will it be 'too little to late' for him?
Kang To starts out as a Calssic Anti-Hero and that is why, even before he started to show a little glimmer of decency people liked HIM even if they hated what he did. you spend the first few episodes wondering why the writers are focusing on the bad guy, but b/c you've spent some time with him you start to realize he's not such a bad guy. in between whiping people and kicking the crap out of his retarded brother you get "bingo" and singing and dancing. you start to pity him and catch glimpses of what made him the bad guy.
Shunji's fall just didnt get enough time to play out. if it had i think we'd all have a lot more sympathy for him and he would become a anti-hero in his own right, but he just wasnt given the time. so instead of two characters mirroring each other (which i think was the idea to begin with) you get Kang To's gradual return to decency and Shunji's swift pyschotic break, the latter of which does not engender sympathy.
twinklelie wrote: I found the preview for ep 18 :D
I can't wait to see it ><
That means there are some romantic moments coming up !
nekoblah wrote: Yea which is why i can understand why everyone looks at shinji that way. Well there is still a bunch of ep left so we will see how everything plays out, and we will know if he would ever come back and redeem himself
Unlike everyone here, i like Shunji and understand what he have been going through. It's true that he became hateful specially when he stabbed a dead body and tortured the circus leader with cold blood not to mention the way he screams like a maniac BUT i believe that what makes the drama intresting and let's not forget that Kang To was like that at the beginning. Shunji's character's changings are amazing and we all have to admit that the actor's skills are awesome.
There is about 11 ep left and i believe that his character's changings are going to be even more cool to watch. I'm actually happy to have a second male lead like Shunji, if he stayed like he was at the beginning he will only be the typical sweet boring second male lead that we always see in korean dramas; that's why i said that Shunji's character is a nice change from our usual dramas : it's great to have an evil second male that can slap the girl he love while going against the world for her.
One more point, i believe that Shunji will end up dead at the end of the drama, someone have to die and the second male lead is always in the danger line.
All i'm hoping for that the plot get more intense no matter what the events are, i just want the plot to be more awesome !
CheerfulSoul wrote: That means there are some romantic moments coming up !
Unlike everyone here, i like Shunji and understand what he have been going through. It's true that he became hateful specially when he stabbed a dead body and tortured the circus leader with cold blood not to mention the way he screams like a maniac BUT i believe that what makes the drama intresting and let's not forget that Kang To was like that at the beginning. Shunji's character's changings are amazing and we all have to admit that the actor's skills are awesome.
There is about 11 ep left and i believe that his character's changings are going to be even more cool to watch. I'm actually happy to have a second male lead like Shunji, if he stayed like he was at the beginning he will only be the typical sweet boring second male lead that we always see in korean dramas; that's why i said that Shunji's character is a nice change from our usual dramas : it's great to have an evil second male that can slap the girl he love while going against the world for her.
One more point, i believe that Shunji will end up dead at the end of the drama, someone have to die and the second male lead is always in the danger line.
All i'm hoping for that the plot get more intense no matter what the events are, i just want the plot to be more awesome !
BINGO! agree, i really do see the similarities between early KT and late shinji. And i think there is def a bias feeling for KT compare to shinji since KT is meant to be the hero. But as much as i petty him and understand the things he does it doesnt mean that i love him ;x
tho i gotta admit all those times he snaps at rara makes me laugh, love the way he out talk his superior like that (tho i'm not sure if its just because she is a woman >;[ )
and thats a interesting thinking about shinji dying in the dead, i can actually see it happening but dying from doing something good like saving someone or do something good :0
Ah Kimura Shunji, I hope that you will learn to fight off the crazy gene inside you and remember the sweetie pie teacher you used to be, but that's just wishful thinkiing....
Remember early on when his student would come to him and believed that he was still a good person? Not once did he waver or look that child's way. That shows how quickly his heart turned cold.
I look forward to finding out more about the Kishokai, and ulitimately their downfall, and I want to see what RaRa is really thinking.
Remember early on when his student would come to him and believed that he was still a good person? Not once did he waver or look that child's way. That shows how quickly his heart turned cold.
I look forward to finding out more about the Kishokai, and ulitimately their downfall, and I want to see what RaRa is really thinking.
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