Kokuto:We also got XL / FFB admitting XY was very important to him in the casino scene, though she completely missed it due to homophones of her and him.
We also got confirmation of who XY loved, when FFB image was reflected in her eyes -- and XY was reflected in Jing's eyes.
We also got to meet Mr Invisible Hong Jiang!
Chapter 29 too. To me the drama made it clear that XY did have some hopes regarding FFB/XL. When she told him about the name of the bugs, her disappointment when she found out that FFB knew she's getting married and her reply that it turns out that he is, in fact, just a passanger in her life and not someone who's there to stay really confirmed to me that she was testing the waters / forcing his hands to act on it.
Also, I second to the "you" sound they added when XL asked her who she most wants to spent her entire life with. I clearly heard it and I am 100% sure that it wasn't unintentional. The jingers believe XL looked disappointed afterwards, but I go by the script and to me he looked tender with a bitersweet expression on his face, because he got the confirmation that the person XY trully loves and wants to spend her entire life with giving the chance is him, not jing or shiqi.
Also, I go by liddi's theory and I believe that the struggle XY had when facing this question was because she knew XL doesn't have a lifetime left to spend and not because she couldn't admit that she wants him. As said, she clearly had some hopes regarding him, chapter 29/ the bridge scene, the red gown, the discussion she had with yellow emperor ("you can marry anyone you want"... "anyone I want, even if he's your enemy?) , the "the one who has the ability, doesn't have the will", her disappointment and tears after the 37 years underwater etc, so it never made much sense to me to believe that that was the reason for her struggle.
These actions don't look as if they are coming from someone who's in complete denial of her own feelings to the point that she would rather get hurt than facing her heart. Instead it was the impossibility of things that made them both look so bittersweet afterwards.
How can you answer something when you know that option doesn't exist? How can you answer "you" when asked about whom do you want to spend your entire life with when you know that that "you" doesn't have the entire life to accompany you, hence why she first opened her mouth as to answer (a clear indication that she did have an answer, no hesitation here), but went into a struggle a second later, when she processed the question with her mind and realised / confronted the facf that that's not going to be possible because XL is doomed to die much sooner. She was ready to admit that the person she wants is him, but she wasn't ready to face the fact that she's going to survive him. The "why?" and "I am so hurting, XL, I hurt.." that came afterwards, to me clearly indicates the heartache she had and not the headache of the struggle, hence why she told him that everything is not going to be ok, even after a good sleep.
The novel says that that's what she does when she encounters things that she doesn't want to think about, she clearly did think of FFB/XL as an option in the past, so the trigger must have been the "entire life" part and how hard it was for her to think and face XL's unavoidably death. The way how at the end she first screamed "impossible, I don't believe it" followed by the admission that "I knew since the beggining, I always knew" definetely sounded as a repressed thought/emotion that finally came to light. The pain in her heart finally exploded, but she was carrying this pain all along. She always knew at the back of her mind that that's what's going to happen, but she always refused to admit it or think about it (her biggest fear, the fear of being abandoned by the ones she loves), that's why she always seemed to forget about the life and death connection they had, that's why XL kind of rhetorically asked her to put the "if i die, can you live" question in reverse etc. She refused to think of anything that could imply XL's death. Even in the last chapter, his death came as a total shock, even though she knew CX is now the emperor of the world. The denial and her refusal to think of XL's death really pains me. Again, XL knew how weak she is and how much he means to her, that's why he kept everything he did for her and his feelings hidden from her.
Another scene that the drama played differently was XY's encounter with her mom and I am not referring to XY, but to jing and XL. Although Jing did have an important part in the novel meant to show us just how unimportant he is (it's him only because he is the only one who won't ever abandon XY), the drama deleted him completely from the picture. Instead they added a scene with XL paying his respects to XY's parents and that painting with them that turned into XL and XY. It could mean either that XL acknowledged them as his parents in law, either that they acknowledged XL as their son in law or both. The order of events I believe it's important here. As far as I recall, first it was the painting that changed and only after we have XL paying his respects to them, not the other way around. He could have paid his respects the moment he entered the house or during any point of his stay there, instead he did it the moment after the painting changed into them. The baili king even made a point in asking XL who exactly is he when he saw him paying his respects to XY's parents, but the question was left unanswered.
Kokuto:We also got XL / FFB admitting XY was very important to him in the casino scene, though she completely missed it due to homophones of her and him.
We also got confirmation of who XY loved, when FFB image was reflected in her eyes -- and XY was reflected in Jing's eyes.
We also got to meet Mr Invisible Hong Jiang!
blabla100:Chapter 29 too. To me the drama made it clear that XY did have some hopes regarding FFB/XL. When she told him about the name of the bugs, her disappointment when she found out that FFB knew she's getting married and her reply that it turns out that he is, in fact, just a passanger in her life and not someone who's there to stay really confirmed to me that she was testing the waters / forcing his hands to act on it.
Good examples of additional hidden lines that were fleshed out in the drama!
blabla100:Also, I second to the "you" sound they added when XL asked her who she most wants to spent her entire life with. I clearly heard it and I am 100% sure that it wasn't unintentional.
Yep, the 你 heard in the background was totally intentional. I can't believe they put that in the drama. It was certainly a nice surprise :)
blabla100:The novel says that that's what she does when she encounters things that she doesn't want to think about, she clearly did think of FFB/XL as an option in the past, so the trigger must have been the "entire life" part and how hard it was for her to think about XL's unavoidably death. The way that at the end she first screamed "impossible" followed by the admission that "I knew since the beggining, I always knew" definetely sounded as a repressed thought/emotion that finally came to light. She always knew at the back of her mind that that's what's going to happen, but she always refused to admit it or think about it (her biggest fear, the fear of being abandoned by the ones she loves), that's why she always seemed to forget about the life and death connection they had, that's why XL kind of rhetorically asked her to put the "if i die, can you live" question in reverse etc. She refused to think of anything that could imply XL's death.
These are great points to support the interpretation that XY's refusal to answer the last question stemmed from her refusal to think about XL's death. Although I'm not 100% convinced that this interpretation aligns with TH's intent, I do like it a lot and it's certainly within the realm of possibility.
blabla100:The baili king even made a point in asking XL who exactly is he when he saw him paying his respects to XY's parents, but the question was left unanswered.
My perspective is that the witch king's question, which he asked while XL was bowing to Chi Chen and A Heng, was implicitly answered. The Chinese tradition is to pay respects to your ancestors so he wouldn't be bowing if he didn't acknowledge XY's parents as his in-laws. I think the question was asked during this time to call attention to XL's actions.
There was no light, the sky was dark, the sea was dark, there was nothing in front of him, and there was nothing behind him. The world was vast, and the wind was blowing and the waves were surging. Xiao Liu felt that he was as small as a mayfly, and it seemed that he would be swallowed up by the next wave, so he subconsciously held Xiang Liu's hand tightly.
Xiangliu suddenly stopped. Xiaoliu didn't know why, but he didn't ask. He just leaned closer to Xiangliu involuntarily and looked towards the east silently with Xiangliu.
Not long after, a bright moon slowly rose from the sea, and its light poured down. Xiaoliu was shocked by the magnificence of the world, and the hard shell in his heart softened.A
mid the sound of the waves, Xiangliu's voice came: "As long as there is such scenery in the world, life is precious."
Xiaoliu muttered: "No matter how rare the scenery is, I will get tired of it if I see it too much. It is only interesting if someone accompanies me to see it. The scenery is always dead.
When she was in dragon bone prison she said her heart was like a heart shell but softened.
some people are even forgetting about this CHP🤷🏻
Speaking of rare scenery, tomorrow night, Sept. 17, a full moon and partial lunar eclipse will appear in the night sky, perhaps similar to the one Xiang Liu experienced on the eve before the final battle. Tomorrow’s full moon will even be a supermoon (bigger and brighter than usual). In the drama, XL bids his farewell to Mao Qiu and inscribes and seals the ice crystal globe in the big-bellied doll for XY. Meanwhile, a distant XY startles awake and clutches her heart. In the novel, after sending off the completed doll, XL finally reveals his unspoken devotion to XY in the epilogue. Lunar eclipses are considered more intense and emotional than a regular full moon, lasting about four hours tomorrow. Check your local sources for exact timing in your area.
solarlunareclipse:The scroll transforming was not XL's imagination. The transformation happened because of Chi Chen's spiritual power.
Kokuto:I have a different interpretation. I don't think the scroll painting of XY's parents transforming into XL and XL literally happened. Chi Chen had moved on. And the CGI we saw wasn't peach blossom flowers, but glowing lights, so more like Lovers Bugs. I mean, let's remember all the complaining about the lack of adequate CGI peach blossom flower petals for XY's scene. They are very distinct, and apparently sparse in CGI Lost You Forever. ;p
solarlunareclipse:If Chi Chen and A Heng had nothing to do with the transformation of the scroll to show YaoLiu, then what do you believe is the purpose of showing the first transformation of the scroll that happened when a peach petal flew into the scroll and transformed the image to show Chi Chen handing to A Heng a peach branch in Season 2, Episode 15?
blabla100:It could mean either that XL acknowledged them as his parents in law, either that they acknowledged XL as their son in law or both. The order of events I believe it's important here. As far as I recall, first it was the painting that changed and only after we have XL paying his respects to them, not the other way around.
I would agree the portrait change likely indicates an acknowledgement of Xiang Liu as Xiao Yao’s true mate. I think the glow of the pink lights is meant to look like a combination of lovers bugs lights and petals to suggest Chi Chen’s peach blossom branch recognized XY’s lovers bug in XL (and vice versa), transforming the portrait as a result. Chi Chen is the King of Beasts in Bai Li, the origin of the Gu and the lovers bugs. The clincher is the narrative misdirection from XL after this scene, which is a component of TH’s style of cloaking visual imagery of the hidden lines in the drama.
After XL asks the Shaman King how to remove the lovers bugs, there’s a transition to XL lounging in his ocean seashell on a full moon night that suggests he’s reflecting on just this part of the visit.
XL: This is really Chi Chen’s home? (Close-up of a baby bassinet with seashell mobile ornaments.)
SK: It’s a surprise, huh? The devil Chi Chen’s home looks so ordinary. There’s no bed made of human bones or walls painted with human blood.
XL: I just didn’t expect that Chi Chen and the Xiling witch would have a home. (XL stands and rocks the baby bassinet. He walks over to the portrait.)
SK: The King of beasts built this house for the Xiling witch. Then they left and never returned. They lived here only for a short time. (The portrait transforms displaying XL and XY. Then XL lights the candles and bows deeply to the portrait of Chi Chen and A Heng.)
Who exactly are you? Why are you paying respects to the King of Beasts and the Xiling witch? (XL leaves silently.)
(Transition back to XL in the seashell recalling the scene. XL pours a drink for Mao Qiu.)
XL: Instead of fighting each other, it’s better to forget each other. (He takes a deep drink of wine.)
The timing of XL’s comment right after the scene is a form of narrative misdirection to paint the preceding scene as of less consequence, which subtly influences the viewer to dismiss the visual imagery in the scene. Imo, the narrative misdirection is indicative that the visual imagery in the scene is valid.
solarlunareclipse:When XL asked, "Who do you most want to spend the rest of your life with?" after the wedding robbery, the background sound effects said a clear "you" (你 - nǐ) before XY fainted.
I went back to watch this scene again a few times (link here). But even though there is a very slight resemblance of "you," I think it was just an artifact of the base drop sound effect at that instant and not something intentional or actually there.
XL: Instead of fighting each other, it’s better to forget each other. (He takes a deep drink of wine.)"
This reply from XL shows his inner thoughts regarding what he experienced in XY's parents home. Regardless if the change of the painting was something he imagined or if Chi Chen and A Heng made the illussion themselves, what I get from his reply is that
1. He belives the choice he made is the better one, rather than end up having the same path as chi chen and a heng had (living for a short time togheter than leaving to battle to never return), he would rather make sure to forget each other and put a stop on his relationship to XY before things escalate to that point.
2. By comparing and visualising chi chen and a heng's relationship to his relationship to XY means that he is very aware of how strong XY's feelings are for him or how strong could have gotten. Basically he aknowledge how high the possibility of them following the same path as XY's parents could have been, if not for him making the choice to forget each other.
Rain_83223:I went back to watch this scene again a few times (link here). But even though there is a very slight resemblance of "you," I think it was just an artifact of the base drop sound effect at that instant and not something intentional or actually there.
I personally hear a clear "you". Could be an artifact as you said, but I don't think so. The original script had their bugs glowing, so I am inclined to believe that they replaced that for that "you" sound. There is a drop sound effect, but I also hear a man's voice saying ni on top of / a second before that. Why ni, which means you in chinese? Why not na or la or whatever. Seems too coincidental to me to be a mistake.
Yuki :Not long after, a bright moon slowly rose from the sea, and its light poured down. Xiaoliu was shocked by the magnificence of the world, and the hard shell in his heart softened.
Jingers tried to say that Jing was the one who slowly opened XY's heart, something XL could never do.
I glad Jingers feel comfortable making completely arbitrary declarations like this without checking the facts. I just pointed out that it was XL who first tore open XY's hard shell the very first time they met and then softened her heart when they watched the moon rise from the surface of the gourd-shaped lake. Jing only managed to break through XY's hard shell after he woke up from napping for 37 years, only to immediately trap her in a web.
Snowcup:I think the glow of the pink lights is meant to look like a combination of lovers bugs lights and petals to suggest Chi Chen’s peach blossom branch recognized XY’s lovers bug in XL (and vice versa), transforming the portrait as a result. Chi Chen is the King of Beasts in Baili, the origin of the Gu and the lovers bugs. The clincher is the narrative misdirection from XL after this scene, which is a component of TH’s style of cloaking visual imagery of the hidden lines in the drama.
Good points. I like the interpretation that pink lights that transformed the scroll were meant to represent a combination of the peach petals and lovers bugs lights.
Snowcup:XL: Instead of fighting each other, it’s better to forget each other. (He takes a deep drink of wine.)
The timing of XL’s comment right after the scene is a form of narrative misdirection to paint the preceding scene as of less consequence, which subtly influences the viewer to dismiss the visual imagery in the scene. Imo, the narrative misdirection is indicative that the visual imagery in the scene is valid.
blabla100:This reply from XL shows his inner thoughts regarding what he experienced in XY's parents home. Regardless if the change of the painting was something he imagined or if Chi Chen and A Heng made the illussion themselves, what I get from his reply is that
1. He belives the choice he made is the better one, rather than end up having the same path as chi chen and a heng had (living for a short time togheter than leaving to battle to never return), he would rather make sure to forget each other and put a stop on his relationship to XY before things escalate to that point.
2. By comparing and visualising chi chen and a heng's relationship to his relationship to XY means that he is very aware of how strong XY's feelings are for him or how strong could have gotten. Basically he aknowledge how high the possibility of them following the same path as XY's parents could have been, if not for him making the choice to forget each other.
Agree that the misdirection reinforces the interpretation something consequential happened in the previous scene. I also agree that XL believed that distancing himself from XY was what was best for her. TH loves to kill two birds with one stone. In this case, XL's inner monologue serves both to serve as misdirection for the previous scene and to give insight into why he is distancing himself from XY.
HeadInTheClouds:Happy Mid-Autumn Festival everyone :-)
liddi:Wishing all a very blessed Mid-Autumn Festival 中秋节快乐!
Happy Mid-Autumn Festival! 祝大家中秋节快乐!
Snowcup:Speaking of rare scenery, tomorrow night, Sept. 17, a full moon and partial lunar eclipse will appear in the night sky, perhaps similar to the one Xiang Liu experienced on the eve before the final battle. Tomorrow’s full moon will even be a supermoon (bigger and brighter than usual). In the drama, XL bids his farewell to Mao Qiu and inscribes and seals the ice crystal globe in the big-bellied doll for XY. Meanwhile, a distant XY startles awake and clutches her heart. In the novel, after sending off the completed doll, XL finally reveals his unspoken devotion to XY in the epilogue. Lunar eclipses are considered more intense and emotional than a regular full moon, lasting about four hours tomorrow. Check your local sources for exact timing in your area.
Well, I missed out entirely on the moon viewing and the eclipse. We were completely covered over with clouds. :( But hopefully everyone had a lovely Mid-Autumn Festival.
Snowcup:Speaking of rare scenery, tomorrow night, Sept. 17, a full moon and partial lunar eclipse will appear in the night sky, perhaps similar to the one Xiang Liu experienced on the eve before the final battle.
I went outside to see the lunar eclipse at its peak last night. It was very cool, like someone took a bite out of the top of a cookie.
Snowcup:After XL asks the Shaman King how to remove the lovers bugs, there’s a transition to XL lounging in his ocean seashell on a full moon night that suggests he’s reflecting on just this part of the visit.
XL: This is really Chi Chen’s home? (Close-up of a baby bassinet with seashell mobile ornaments.)
SK: It’s a surprise, huh? The devil Chi Chen’s home looks so ordinary. There’s no bed made of human bones or walls painted with human blood.
XL: I just didn’t expect that Chi Chen and the Xiling witch would have a home. (XL stands and rocks the baby bassinet. He walks over to the portrait.)
SK: The King of beasts built this house for the Xiling witch. Then they left and never returned. They lived here only for a short time. (The portrait transforms displaying XL and XY. Then XL lights the candles and bows deeply to the portrait of Chi Chen and A Heng.)
Who exactly are you? Why are you paying respects to the King of Beasts and the Xiling witch? (XL leaves silently.)
(Transition back to XL in the seashell recalling the scene. XL pours a drink for Mao Qiu.)
XL: Instead of fighting each other, it’s better to forget each other. (He takes a deep drink of wine.)
The timing of XL’s comment right after the scene is a form of narrative misdirection to paint the preceding scene as of less consequence, which subtly influences the viewer to dismiss the visual imagery in the scene. Imo, the narrative misdirection is indicative that the visual imagery in the scene is valid.
When I first watched this scene, I thought the scroll changing to show YaoLiu was just Xiang Liu's imagination. After learning that Chi Chen and A Heng had a home together, he might have imagined what a life with Xiao Yao would be like. In this scene, Xiang Liu is wearing his red thread of fate outfit—the same one he wore during these key moments:
- When he was injured and came to her room, and she drew seven eyes on his head.
- When they planted the Poisonous Lovers' Bugs.
- When he tried to get Xiao Yao to kiss him for air.
The common thread when Xiang Liu wears this outfit seems to be that he allows himself to be vulnerable with Xiao Yao, so him imagining a future together would fit with this interpretation.
After reading your analysis about Xiang Liu thinking it’s better for him and Xiao Yao to forget each other (as narrative misdirection to distract from the fact that her parents recognized him as their son-in-law), I also believe that his wistfulness upon learning about Chi Chen and A Heng having a home together was another attempt at misdirection. It leads viewers to dismiss the scroll transformation as wishful thinking. Instead, it’s more logical that Xiang Liu’s feelings activated the Lovers' Bugs, which interacted with Chi Chen’s spiritual power embedded in the scroll, causing the transformation.
Other hints that the scroll transformation wasn’t just Xiang Liu’s imagination include:
- Previously, a peach petal flew into the scroll when A Heng’s consciousness dispersed, transforming the image to show Chi Chen handing A Heng a peach branch. Narratively, it would make sense for the first transformation of the scroll to be linked with the second transformation of the scroll.
- After the second scroll transformation to reveal the image of YaoLiu, Xiang Liu lit incense and bowed to honor Xiao Yao’s parents, acknowledging their recognition of him as their son-in-law and acceptance of him. Just like YaoLiu's love is not one-sided, Xiang Liu recognizing Xiao Yao's parents as his in-laws is not one-sided.
- Later, when Xiang Liu looks into the crystal ball and sees the third imagined/disappearing merman, there are no glowing lights or other special effects. This suggests that if the scroll transformation were imagined, there would have been no need to show the peach blossom colored Lovers’ Bug glowing special effects.
For these reasons, I’m convinced that the scroll transformation signifies Xiao Yao’s parents recognizing Xiang Liu as their son-in-law.
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