Tushan Jing and Xiao Yao, here's to a Happily Ever After

 Winny Aye:

 I am very uncomfortable about what Xiang Liu did in Chapter 13. 

For further reading:  Full mirror analysis :https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/122337-tong-hua-s-xiaojing-drama-novel-exploration-x1f49c?page=3 

Thank you winny! Have a good rest!

 Romans_Revenge:

And when a girl tells you, you’re not the type to appear in a woman’s dream should NEVER be a compliment. That’s the most scariest thing any man would never want to hear.

Also xl NEVER had his way with XY nor got into her heart,dunno where that thought is coming from. She has been attracted, very possessive of Jing since day 1. You think she’d waste her time getting jealous of Jing’s maids, skipping the 227 stars as she counted or even looked at her side when panzi was getting married & shi qi had to avoid ah nian? Or her telling him that when she looks at him, she wants to pull him down & keep him for herself? Whiles xl she fears him. XY isn’t stupid to flee with an enemy, she’d be on people’s hit list cos not only people want to kill xl,they also want to off XY knowing who her biological father is? Not even ZX would’ve been able to protect her, plus she’s not stupid. 

Picture this: you're reading a story where Xiang Liu is all mysterious and brooding, and you can't help but feel drawn to him despite the fact that he's, well, kinda abusive. By making Xiang Liu out to be some sort of romantic hero, we're basically saying that it's okay for partners to treat each other like garbage as long as there's some twisted sense of passion involved ....

Take this scene, for example: Xiang Liu grabs Xiao Yao and pushes her head toward him, insisting on a kiss even though she clearly doesn't want it.  She'd rathe die!. That's not passion, that's coercion. It's not about love – it's about control.

And let's not forget about poor Ah Nian, manipulated by Xiang Liu too . When he sets traps for Xiao Yao and toys with her emotions, reminding her : she should be the most loved princess, it's not some grand gesture you expect for a grand charcter right? – it's manipulation plain and simple. It's being SICK.

Now, imagine if instead of romanticizing these toxic dynamics, the story showed healthy relationships in action:

Picture Xiao Yao standing up for herself and setting boundaries with Xiang Liu, refusing to be treated like an object.  wich she did.

Or envision Ah Nian finding the strength to walk away from someone who's clearly bad news, choosing self-respect over empty words.  which she didn't.

By swapping out the toxic romance for healthy examples of love and respect, we're not only telling better stories, but we're also sending a powerful message to readers: 

that they deserve relationships built on trust, communication, and mutual respect. 

And that's a message worth spreading!

Xiao Yao's response to Xiang Liu's coercive behavior is commendable and serves as a positive example. Instead of succumbing to his manipulative tactics or passively accepting his advances, she stands her ground and asserts her boundaries. This refusal to tolerate mistreatment demonstrates strength, self-respect, and resilience.

Xiao Yao's actions offer readers an important lesson in empowerment and self-advocacy. By refusing to be a victim of Xiang Liu's manipulation, she asserts her agency and asserts that she will not be coerced into actions that make her uncomfortable. This empowers readers to recognize their own worth and stand up against any form of mistreatment or manipulation in their own lives.

Furthermore, Xiao Yao's response serves as a counterbalance to the romanticized portrayal of toxic relationships often seen in literature and media. Instead of glamorizing coercion or abuse as signs of passion, the narrative showcases the importance of mutual respect, consent, and healthy boundaries in relationships.

Xiao Yao is:resilience, self-respect, and empowerment, offering readers a powerful example to emulate in their own lives. 

Xiao Yao is like: "Nah, not buying into that nonsense." 

I think we can all learn a thing or two from her. Instead of romanticizing unhealthy behaviors, she shows us the importance of standing up for ourselves, setting boundaries, and demanding respect in our relationships. It's empowering, you know? Like, yeah, we deserve better than to be treated like that. Sugarcoat or downplay his actions is not the right thing to do in my opinion: because they were harmful and abusive.

She relinquish her sense of self, even as you said roman, she feel fear too. But she stand up and face the mistreatment she endure and she does not mis-interpret what exactly she is going through.  

Yes. it was exhausting and to re read, and to rewatch :) So excuse me, but I felt that this had to be expressed.

Chapter 13...A scene between  Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu

I have translated the thai ver of it...because it's more rough and clear. the one from Koala page is soften. 

Im not going include thai text here but if you are curious you can ask me to show.

Oki ..thai ver translated by me.

....

Under the bright moonlight The glimmering light of the deep blue sea waves, a white-haired man in white robe lying on his back on the waves rippled up and down,  the corners of his mouth tighten up. He looked at her as if he was admiring the dance that was made for him.
Xiao Yao thought of escaping. But she was in midair. The only direction she had was to fall downwards. She could only open her eyes, looking at herself getting closer and closer to him. She thought she was about to crash into Xiang Liu's body, he sank down. So she fell into the sea. Both of his hands held her hand.
All she could do was to be pulled and dragged under the sea by him. He took her swimming under the sea. Xiao Yao felt that Xiang Liu would never think of killing her but intended to torture her. She could only be patient. The last bit of air in her lungs had been used up. Xiao Yao held his hand, looking at him pleadingly. But he didn't care about her and was still swimming deeper.
Xiao Yao held her breath until her chest felt like it was about to explode. Her hands no longer had any strength. Fingers loosen. Xiang Liu hugged her waist. There was smile on his lips as if he was saying if she was thinking of wanting clean air, come and inhale it herself. Xiao Yao shook her head. The time before, she was Wen Xiaoliu, She had never seen herself as a woman. She could do whatever she wanted. But now she can't do it.
Xiang Liu's smile disappeared. He gave a thrilling hug and going down further. He looked at Xiao Yao. Xiao Yao looked at him. Xiang Liu increased his speed. Xiao Yao began to understand that when facing a nine-headed demon who doesn't care about anything,  Princess Gao Xin title, she could not protect her.
Xiang Liu became blacker and faster. The water that appeared to be the softest yet had a terrifying power, almost compressed Xiao Yao into dust, tightening in the chest, like it's about to explode. The whole body was tingling with pain.

Life or death is a simple choice. The two faces were very close. So close that the tips of their noses almost touch each other. If she moved forward a little. she would be able to put her lips to his. But she couldn't do it! Xiao Yao felt that seawater seemed to overflow into her ears and nose. His lips were so close to that. So close to that Xiao Yao lost all senses and lost consciousness.
Xiang Liu pressed her head hard against the side of his lips as he floated her up. Both floated to the surface of the water. Xiang Liu sat motionless on the surface of the water. He bent one knee and lifted Xiao Yao, who was unconscious, letting her collapse on his legs. His palm moved with magical power, exerting force to slap Xiao Yao's back several times. Xiao Yao opened his mouth and let out a loud “ah” cry.
She violently coughed up several gulps of water. Just like a person slowly regained consciousness, her whole body ached and was weak, her brain was numb, she couldn't move. She closed her eyes, exhausted, and collapsed on Xiang Liu's legs. She rested for a while. Xiao Yao actually regained consciousness. She clung to Xiang Liu's knee and slowly lifted her body up. Guess it was because Xiang Liu's magical powers supported him, the water beneath the body was like a very soft cushion. Her movements caused her to sink slightly. But it didn't make her sunk.
Xiang Liu's was expressionless. All the while he was staring at her intently but not speaking. Xiao Yao didn't know what to say. They were in the middle of a vast sea. All around there was only darkness that had boundaries. It was as if there were only two of them left in this world. Xiao Yao finally spoke, “Originally, I thought that if I met you in the future, I would pretend to not recognize you."
“In my body there are still your occult bugs. Do you think you will trust the truth that you have given me?” Xiao Yao said. "Let's talk logically, it should be only I that can feel you. But you shouldn't be able to feel me. How do you know that I am Wen Xiaoliu?”
Xiang Liu raised his hand and brushed back the damp hair on Xiao Yao's face, taking  her head carefully and looked closely at her face . “Is this your true face?”
"um"
"You're very good at lying." Xiao Yao defended himself. “Lying doesn't count. I really see myself as Wen Xiaoliu.”
“Princess Gao Xin?” Xiang Liu smiled coldly. “No wonder that day, even if you had to die, you would still help Zhuan Xu.”
Xiao Yao didn't dare make another sound. Xiang Liu's hand seemed to casually rest on her shoulder. His fingers lightly swept across her neck, and deceivingly said “Among the words you said, which ones are false? Don't confess all once today. I will not kill you.”
“I told you from the beginning that I'm just talking a lot of nonsense. But don't lie.” Xiao Yao held out his hand, “I like to talk. Because I'm afraid of loneliness if I only tell lies. It will only make the more I talk, the more lonely I become." Xiang Liu's nails in that  gradually became sharper returned to its original state without a sound. Xiao Yao had no idea that she had come so close just to death?
Xiang Liu sat quietly staring at the darkness, didn not know what he was thinking. His whole body was like an untrained sword, so sharp and lonely that no one in the world can get close to him. Xiao Yao didn't know why. She was on the surface of the water but she felt like she was sinking underwater again. Her chest was tight and uncomfortable. She suddenly realized something. She took out a wet cloth bag and pulled out a small jade bottle, pour out a handful of colorful pills, and spread it out on Xiang Liu's palm. “Do you want to try it?”

Xiang Liu acted like he was eating sugar coated nuts, slowly putting them into his mouth one by one.
 "How is it?This is the poison I purposely concocted for you. I have to search for a lot of information and rare herbs.” The cold fierceness on Xiang Liu's body suddenly softened, "Fair enough."
“Just enough?” Xiao Yao almost cried. “Many of the herbs are herbs that were recently grown on the island, using water from the Guixu River fountain to pour it on. It has been grown for over a thousand and eight hundred years."
Xiang Liu said in a low voice. “Did you still think of poisoning me all this time?” Xiao Yao shook his head back and forth. “I am the god of poison. Even the Nine-Tailed Fox was able to knock it down with poison. There's no reason why a nine-headed demon like you can't be poisoned!” Xiang Liu smiled disdainfully and said, “I will wait and see.” Xiaoyao felt that the atmosphere between the two of them was no longer as tense as wielding swords and arrows at each other. So she asked carefully, “How did you get to involved with Ah Nian. "
"Can't I?" Xiao Yao held the straps of Xiang Liu's shirt and said very solemnly
"Cannot! You must not bother her again. She was overly protected by my father, unable to resist the urges of someone like you.”
Xiang Liu leaned forward and asked with a smile, “People like me? What kind of person am I?”

 Xiao Yao hammered him down one time. "In your heart, you know."

Xiang Liu said nonchalantly. “She doesn't think of you as her older sister. You are now anxious to be a better older sister.”
"The relationship between people, one person must be willing to step in first. Between men and women there is no need to mention it. Even parents and children are like this when the children don't yet know that, Parents must start being givers first. I've always been a selfish person. I definitely won't be the one to step in first. But between me and Ah Nian, I decided to be the first to step in. Not because she is excellent or worthy. But it was because of my father and Zhuan Xu. I am willing to be the one who gives it to Ah Nian first for Father and Zhuan Xu.”
“If you give it, when will you receive it back? She can sell you to me. She can sell you to others. This time she was able to push you off a cliff. Next time she might bring a dagger to your chest."
“I know, so I will only do this one time. "
Xiang Liu said. “I promise I won't tease your sister again. But you must promise me one thing.”
“Can I refuse?” 

“Clearly no.” 

Xiao Yao blinked at Xiang Liu, showing that she was fully willing to listen. Xiang Liu said. “Help me continue concocting the poison.” 

"This is very easy." Xiao Yao quickly agreed, “Yes, but how can I hand it over to you? I'm not in Qingshui District now. You can't go up the mountain to find me."
Xiang Liu smiled and said. “This is a problem that you have to think about for yourself. Let's just say that if it's  a long time to see your medicine, I'll go find your sister instead." Xiao Yao muttered: “I already know that you won't be able to refrain me this easily.” Xiang Liu said. “I have already refrained you.”
Xiao Yao pursed her lips.

Xiang Liu let out a cold sound and suddenly asked: "Why?"
Xiao Yao knew he was asking why she was willing to die but refused to kiss him. But she pretended not to understand. “What and why? Xiang Liu grabbed her arm and dragged her down. Xiao Yao hurriedly screamed, “Oh, I just remembered. I realized it." Xiang Liu stared at her. Xiao Yao said, “I am afraid.” “Feared more than death?”

Xiao Yao thought for a moment and then slowly said, “My brother, that is Zhuan Xu. One night we sat and talked. He laughed at me and said I'm still a girl who still dreams. Even if it's just....just .. I'm afraid that if I'm not careful, you will walk into my dreams, but you…” Xiaoyao shook his head. “You are definitely not someone who is suitable to appear in a young girl's dream. It is more terrifying than death.”

Xiang Liu let out a soft laugh, but his laughter gradually became louder. He let go of Xiao Yao. Then he take himself floating far away. Xiao Yao loudly called out, “Hey, don't leave me here. If you left me here, how shall I go back?”
Xiang Liu laughed and said. “Swim back.” The face suddenly changed color. “Will you let me swim back from here? This is the deep sea. There are sea monsters roaming around. My magical power is weak. Any monster can eat me."
Xiang Liu smirked and said. “I do this because I have good intentions for you. If I am too gentle and pamper you,. I may carelessly enter into your dreams. It may make you in a state of not live, not dead. Wouldn't it be a serious sin?” Xiang Liu finished speaking, slowly descending into the deep sea, and then disappeared.
Xiao Yao still couldn't believe it, shouting, “Xiang Liu, Nine Life Xiang Liu! Nine headed monster You evil devil deserves to die! You evil devil. The nine-headed monster deserves to die..." The vast sea rippled up and down periodically. The whole sky and earth were quiet and silent without any random sounds. Xiao Yao only felt the color of the sea turned even darker. She got goosebumps;  distinguishing and finding direction for a moment. On one side scolded Xiang Liu. On another side swam in the direction of Five Gods Mountain.
At first, she was afraid that she would suddenly saw a monster emerge and bite her leg off. But as time goes on, she still unable to see the ground, what she worried about was no longer being bitten to death, but was afraid of drowning if she preserves every ounce of her strength. She didn't dare to think distractedly anymore, she kept the thoughts in her brain empty.
She did not think of anything at all. It's like entering meditation during asceticism. Her body maintained a steady rhythm and swam without stopping. At first, her body still felt achy from fatigue, but it all slowly faded away. The sky wasn't the sky. The sea wasn't even the sea, not award of their own existence. Everything becomes a survival instincts. She could only move forward amidst the viscous mass, only moving forward. Move forward without stopping at all.

I was thinking about this kiss under water ..

There are a lot of occasions especially in media that use this scene as romantic. 

But with Lost You Forever, in the scene of Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao, in episode 19 and chapter 13, I personally could not feel it romantic. 

In the context in both versions that I read...Its all his rough behavior to get advances and her being all uncomfortable. 

Translating from Thai ver

From Koala's page...

It's all about her getting hurt, weak and lose consciousness. The way he carried her with his legs is rough or sometimes I even feel he's treating her like trash in that particular scene. .   it's all tension between characters . And I am glad it does not lead to Xiao Yao falling in love even she might be fascinated about in which she said she's afraid of letting him come to her dream. She was on guard by herself. Well we will see how the story goes on. 

I will give example of under water romantic scene from 

Percy Jackson...

Can you feel the difference...there are these phrasea  of "my brain was melting right through my body." ..."completely red" and "air bubble".  

With Tong Hua words, (translated), I could not feel anything romantic or attraction there with all the uncomfort words. 

So now let's skip a bit to chapter 18 when Xiao Yao drown Jing to get him kiss her. 

She thought about FFB/XL surely ...but by the context, but she definetly knew the man she dragging down was Jing. And it is implied "She wanted him with her." So the guy she wanted was Jing

 (With XL she experienced happiness in bottom of the Ocean.  But she had refused his advances in chapter 13 in such a way. )

 I wonder why would anyone think she's seeing the other man but kissing the another man. That's not a very respect to the character and her decision. 

I could not analysis this scene fully yet because we still have to go through chapter 14, 15,16,17 to get there. We will need to see how her relationship with both men grew. 

The way how I see the scene for now is the thinking of FFB/XL come because of the ocean to Xiao Yao. And she used XL method to get Jing kissed her. Xiao Yao used XL 's method  to get kiss is not equal to her thinking of XL when she was in underwater. Definetly not  in such a longing way or wanting way. NOPE. It's already implied whom she want.

Hehehe...because I think she's disappointed he refused to kiss her on the lips last time. 

But again the scene is not romantic because Jing refused it. But however its not as uncomfortable as in chapter 13 because Xiao Yao is direct and not actually that kind of rough or toying with death.

Because she just wrapped around his neck and straightly give him air (kiss). His refusal anger her indeed.  The overall environment is not dark. It's summer time. The  tension is just too low. 

"Because you did not have me in your eyes back there!"

This is Jing's reasoning. BUT it is not from Xiao Yao thinking. Probably he could sense Xiao Yao thinking of FFB. But in which way? To me this is a bit tricky yet. Because Jing never was 100% sure how much he was in her heart and Xiao Yao doubt that if she was important enough to Jing especially after he rejected her kiss . My thought of Jing insecurity came from chapter 20...

Jing smiled and playfully pinched her cheeks before going to look at another zither. Because he felt Xiao Yao had put him inside her heart, he had become more easygoing around her and no longer as fearful and tentative as if he could lose her at any moment.

....As for Xiao Yao ....because of her behavior afterwards in chapter 18..but there is difference between Koala version and the Thai version I read. I have different thoughts on both. So I will share both versions here.

Thoughts on Koala Ver

The way she asked Jing "Am I in your eyes?" gives off a feeling of her disappointment and her insecure/doubt of her feelings. XL punish her swimming through sticky sea which makes all her exhausted. But she punished Jing by biting his palm because licking is not enough. And Jing was hurt in his hand but  "happy" in his heart.  I can still find some romance here in the scene. 

Edit:  I just read the Thai ver.....for last few lines it's different. So I want to share here. 

Translate: 

In fact, this was what he thought. Fenglong had great ideals. He and Zhuan Xu desired greatness and power. But what he desired was only to get closer to Xiao Yao. But if he said it, no one would believe him. Zhuan Xu had been being paranoid about his intentions  but turned into thinking  what he desired was money. Now Zhuan Xu gave him some money. He gave Zhuan Xu a little help. Zhuan Xu felt at ease now. So this was a long term plan to stay altogether. But when these words came out of Xiao Yao's mouth, they had a completely different meaning. Because that shows that in the midst of a relationship between Jing and Zhuan Xu, Xiao Yao stood at Jing's side. She had thought about it on his behalf.

Jing looked at Xiao Yao and could not stop smiling.

Xiao Yao felt frustrated  and bit Jing's palm hard one time.

"Is there you in my eyes?"

Jing's palm was hurt but he felt so sweet in his heart. He smiled and said "There is!"

......

Thoughts on Thai ver. 

It has a completely different feels. By their last conversation after afterwards confirms Jing and to us readers that Xiao Yao had him in her eyes. So Xiao Yao was frustrasted because Jing had doubts on her (rather than her doubt like in koala version). She probably punish him for that by biting his palm. But his heart felt sweet instead. So I do feel some romance there.

 @ Winny Aye 

I do not even get why people would find it romantic for  xl  when XY to want to air kiss Jing . Willingly  on top of it.   They want xy to be just like her cousin who think of xy while having sex with his wives. In many instance in the book when xy is alone with xl , she never tried nor wanted to kiss him . Xl never made her heart fluttered, her face blush red. 

 Winny Aye:

XL 's method  to get kiss is not equal to her thinking of XL.

Precise and accurate!. <3

 Winny Aye:

"Is there you in my eyes?"


Jing's palm was hurt but he felt so sweet in his heart. He smiled and said "There is!"

Adding :http://m.xsbiquge.la/book/36337/19812278.html :

(ch.18)

This proves that in the relationship between Jing and Xuanxuan, Xiaoyao stood from Jing's perspective and considered it for him.

Jing looked at Xiaoyao and couldn't help but smile.

Xiao Yao was annoyed and bit heavily on Jing's hand: "Do I have you in my eyes?"

Jing felt pain in his hand, but sweetness in his heart, and said with a smile, "Yes."

小夭气恼，在璟的手上重重咬了一口：“我眼里有你吗？”

璟痛在手上，却甜在心里，含笑道：“有。”

+ thanks to winny:

Xiaoyao's actions and gestures are expressing her feelings for Jing. Does he sees it?=>Yes.

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 Winny Aye:

licking is not enough.

;D!! Ah that was something too ! (ch8):

" Xiao Liu naughtily licked the center of his palm with his tongue and Shi Qi was like being hit with an electric shock and released him. Xiao Liu was also shocked by what he just did and his mouth was gaping open and his entire face was flaming red."

Here is the original version:

小六的嘴被十七捂住了，小六呜呜了几声，十七都不放，小六顽皮地用舌尖舔了一下他的掌心，十七像触电一样，立即逃开了。小六也被自己吓住了，半张着嘴，脸火辣辣地烧了起来。

 Xiao Liu's mouth was covered by Seventeen, Xiao Liu whimpered a few times, Seventeen wouldn't even let go, Xiao Liu naughtily licked his palm with the tip of his tongue, Seventeen fled away immediately as if he was electrocuted. Xiao Liu was also stunned by himself, half-open mouth, face burning hot.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Remember?

十七静静地搂着小六，小六安静地聆听着他的心跳。在这死亡之地，隔绝了所有红尘诱惑、所有人世牵绊、所有利益选择，让男人和女人之间本来复杂的关系变得十分简单，只剩下他与她。小六竟然觉得身有所倚，反而心里很安宁。 

Shi Qi hugged Xiao Liu quietly, and Xiao Liu quietly listened to his heartbeat. In this place of death, all the temptations of the mortal world, all worldly ties, and all interest choices are cut off, making the originally complex relationship between a man and a woman very simple, leaving only him and her. Xiao Liu actually felt that he had something to rely on, and felt very peaceful in his heart.

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But....as y said @Winny and @Peng : First things first , as we are going now to enjoy chapter 14! 

 peng-peng:

Thank you so much.    Nice to see that the Chinese text aligns very much with the Thai text.   And both show XY feelings. 

Yes it's direct there. I just love how that confirm from Jing as well. So that scene is overall sweet. 

@Symbolika1

Picture this: you're reading a story where Xiang Liu is all mysterious and brooding, and you can't help but feel drawn to him despite the fact that he's, well, kinda abusive. By making Xiang Liu out to be some sort of romantic hero, we're basically saying that it's okay for partners to treat each other like garbage as long as there's some twisted sense of passion involved ....

Take this scene, for example: Xiang Liu grabs Xiao Yao and pushes her head toward him, insisting on a kiss even though she clearly doesn't want it.  She'd rathe die!. That's not passion, that's coercion. It's not about love – it's about control.

Yes , XL did this too sudden when she came for another man. And what he did sounds abusive to me as well. i like how it is not romantized here at least in this scene.

And let's not forget about poor Ah Nian, manipulated by Xiang Liu too . When he sets traps for Xiao Yao and toys with her emotions, reminding her : she should be the most loved princess, it's not some grand gesture you expect for a grand charcter right? – it's manipulation plain and simple. It's being SICK.

Manipulative and sneaky. There's no way to deny.

Now, imagine if instead of romanticizing these toxic dynamics, the story showed healthy relationships in action:

Picture Xiao Yao standing up for herself and setting boundaries with Xiang Liu, refusing to be treated like an object.  wich she did.

No matter whatever attachment Xiao Yao had for XL throughout the story, I am glad she never really fall in love with him.