lop

Toffee already addressed this and said The Idol doesn't even have a MDL page. Why doesn't MDL start giving us entertainment news about Western celebrities then rather than news about Western celebrities who are related to an Asian film/drama?

After getting jail time and taking more than 10 years to return to a more leading role where his entire career after the controversy has been a support or co-lead role. This also happened way before the Me Too movement where people became extra careful about stuff like this.

Why aren't you trying to cancel celebrities like Jerry Seinfield, Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp, and far more for their underaged girlfriends and boyfriends as adults?
Why aren't you trying to cancel actors like Jared Leto, who was called out for much worse during the Me Too movement and is still facing claims today?

No, Korean stars don't become one overnight even with good connections. Korean entertainment is so competitive that good connections get your foot in the door. For example, Park Hyung Sik comes from a wealthy family. It took him about 7 years for a leading role. Same with Lee Yi Kyung. Same with Choi Si Won. Lee Min Jung. The list goes on.

Unless a celebrity becomes an overnight sensation, which is a very rare phenomena, it would be very obvious if the industry keeps pushing certain stars who don't really reflect the public opinion. So, the alternative course is to make the people somewhat familiar with their faces and have them develop their acting skills by experience, so that when they do eventually become "sensations," it's not ridiculously suspicious. That's what connections give you.

If she is very talented even among her peers, as you claim, she will likely have her shot at redemption.

Please don't lump harassment and criticism together. That's ridiculous.

Even if the country is free, Korea wasn't really able to punish Japanese collaborators due to its unique historical background. As a result, many collaborators maintained status quo and essentially were materially advantaged compared to Koreans who fought and resisted. Ha Young's great-grandfather was a also Korean elite and a collaborator, making him even more advantaged amongst collaborators. Then the descendants who inherited the ancestor's generational wealth became even more wealthy and used that wealth to erase and alter the ancestor's history. Ha Young, whether knowingly or unknowingly, got caught up in her family's deceit and ended up talking about her ancestor in positive light. When the truth was first unveiled, she and her agency tried to cover it up.

I highly doubt if the same situation happened to the Palestinian community, they would simply dismiss the situation as "it's only the ancestor's fault" and condemn Palestinians who feel uncomfortable supporting the actress because they don't think she represents their identity.

"I've seen some of the recent Korean coverage and comments, and some of it has gone straight to inciting violence against her."

Do you mean the coverage is inciting violence or the comments? If it's the comments, there's no need to respond. If it's the actual coverage, I would like the source.

"There might've been 2-3 close family members that knew about it, but generally those collaborators don't call for a family meeting and share. At least I don't think so. It defeats the purpose of secrecy..."
Not following your "logic" here. If they are Koreans who grew up under a Korean education system, there is no reason to believe they would still be collaborators lol.

The idea is suppose you knew the truth, and you see your naive, younger family member going out boasting about an ancestor that you know have darker ties in an interview broadcasted to the entire Korean population. It takes a lot of entitlement to assume it will be buried indefinitely. Therefore, you should warn her about it as soon as possible if you were a decent person at least. Not sure why you think that is "dumb logic." This wasn't a one time incident, where the parents/aunts/uncles/grandparents/cousins/etc just forgot to teach Ha Young her history and she went on one single interview and misspoke as you're making it out to be. There were multiple interviews and multiple chances for them to prevent this.

I don't care much. I don't have a personal vendetta against Ha Young nor am I trying to make this personal as you and many others are. I simply am presenting the best argument that I can think of on behalf of the Koreans because I do know Korean and do know Korean history. Of course, I don't know everything and assume I know everything, but I think I know enough so that I can defend a view that I see resonate by what K-netizens are actually saying, not what you guys think they are saying. This is why it appears to you like I am "forcing my views." I am responding to views that are popular misrepresentations and I am saying, here is a stronger argument, refute this instead of the arguments that you conjure up with zero context, zero knowledge, etc. especially when the moral stakes are so very low. The stakes are, a mega famous superstar with a wealthy family, and therefore multiple financial safety nets, is losing popularity for a reasonable reason. Of course, for many foreigners it doesn't seem reasonable, which is why I am having dialogues like these to bridge the gap of understanding. If you end up saying, ah I finally get an idea, but I will keep supporting Ha Young, then that'll be my cue to walk away. I am not responding to comments like these.

I don't know what your experience is, but if it's actually embarrassing, you looked at it positively, and you constantly shared this event or fact in a positive manner to various people, do you want for that truth to remain hidden even though it can, and likely does depending on the amount of people who hear it, end up revealing itself and hurting you instead? Among a small community like family, friends, or even a town, that's pretty common and kind of understandable. But to the general public?
If you do, then we can agree to disagree because probably our value systems diverge too much for us to have a reasonable dialogue.

Lol k

No need. It was hilarious while I was writing it 😂

If Koreans, including its news channels, are suggesting she boasted, but your argument is she didn't because from your perspective someone else had introduced the topic: rather than assuming the entire nation is wrong, how about considering that the concept of bragging and flex culture is different in Korea and the West? For example, there are many Korean expressions and idioms that suggest if someone praises themselves, it would be considered immodest (not in a serious way). That is why, culturally speaking, they often have someone else introduce the topic so that they can "naturally" brag about themselves. In this setting, what we would look at is not who introduced the topic, but how the topic was addressed. If they wanted to dismiss the topic, or move on from it, they would speak curtly. But clearly, Ha Young talked about her family lineage, especially her great grandfather, with great pride. She also knew her great grandfather treated Gojong because she mentioned it during her Trauma Center interview regardless of what she said in her more recent one.

As for the Anyang post, there is so much misinformation coming from your end. First, the blog was reported by a citizen reporter, not by the city official. The citizen submits articles for which the city showcases on their Naver blog which is basically like a FB post. In this case, Anyang didn't do a good job vetting their submission, which is why they are getting flack. Second, there is an English article by sedaily, which is perhaps what you are referring to, where the official says that Ahn's pro-Japanese ties weren't known at the time and he wasn't part of the collaborator list, which is true. However, they were listing him as an "independence fighter" on the Anyang article. Correct me if I'm wrong by providing sources, but none of the public information showcased him as an independence fighter either. He certainly wasn't on the list of independence fighters. So how in the hell did Anyang mistake him as one? It's a marker of incompetence, especially when the most notable public fact about him was his involvement to a rumor to have poisoned the emperor. And if the city official had actually "investigated" and fact checked by looking through the digital archives, as you and their article title had suggested, they would have found what the netizens found.

Finally, what is with foreigners constantly reframing this issue as though Koreans think Ha Young knew or not? There are discussions, speculations, and theories regarding whether she knew, but that isn't even the main argument. OP certainly did not say Ha Young definitely knew nor that she was morally responsible for her great grandpa. To argue that Koreans are saying she knew or are punishing her for her great grandpa is a ridiculous strawman. There aren't protest trucks against her, campaigns against her, and collective demands for her show to be removed. Her drama is still airing and is currently #2 worldwide on Netflix. People are simply outraged and she is facing public backlash. She is losing endorsement deals because those depend on her image. People have simply lost their support for her.

Accepting the premise that Ha Young didn't know, the question is, is it fair for Koreans to lose support of someone who had unintentionally offended them? I think so given the circumstances. Ha Young and her parents have gone on public to humble-brag their wealth and background. That ended up backfiring when the truth was shown that this wealth was brought up from bloody money. There can be various responses to this. Some can make weak inferences like what type of family would hide their dirty past yet reap the rewards for it so obnoxiously, and what sort of value system was Ha Young brought up in? Some can just drift their attention away from Ha Young to another celebrity, by the contrast effect, where they start paying attention to celebrities who did the opposite of what she did. We do this too in the West all the time. A quick example is Leo. People make all sorts of weak inferences that he's a groomer and a creep because of his age preference, the power dynamics, and the prevalent controversies surrounding Hollywood. People also are affected by the contrast effect when they highlight celebrities who have healthy relationships in the appropriate age range. Responses like these happen all the time in the West, except when Koreans do it, they are devils punishing their celebrities? Come on. And this is accepting the premise she never knew, when in reality, it is uncertain.

If you truly want to make sense of the issue, stop reframing it in a manner that only makes sense to you but villifies the opposite side. It would be like if I said, "Western fans need to stop punishing Leo. I genuinely can't make sense of people who think dating someone ages 19-25 is grooming them!" Even Western fans wouldn't be able to make sense of what I think their argument is because that isn't the argument.

You poor, illiterate child...

Yes, that's my opinion based on the Korean news and the Korean forums I come across describing the situation. Then, I further extrapolate my opinion using my knowledge of Korean history. I can also sniff-test your bullshit because the frequency for which I will across a comment like yours from an actual native Korean is very low, which is why I said you're clearly not Korean, as in, it is my opinion that you are highly unlikely Korean.

If you're arguing as though Koreans are some monolith and there are people trying to bestow an opinion that would reflect all Koreans as though one were some sort of king or a god of Koreans, then no one, including how I use the language, reflects that. If, you mean, how we normally use word in everyday speech of "speaking for Koreans" to have an opinionated view about Korea in a manner that exhudes credibility, then both your "opinion" and my "opinion" falls into this category, where the better "opinion" is the one that grasps the most context.

Well then, I don't know who you're talking to because I don't see anyone ever claiming their views are representing THE Korean opinion. It's simply everyone's own opinion or their opinion about what they think is the Korean opinion 🤡

How about you actually think about what you're arguing and what you're doing one step further?

Is your original comment only against very fringe examples where netizens announce they are Koreans (but are in fact foreigners) or non-Korean netizens who announce they are non-Koreans? A commentator who says, "As a Korean or non-Korean, blah blah blah?" I'll give you a little more credit (although maybe I shouldn't) and say you're a bit smarter than that.

You are probably criticizing people making blanketed opinions on behalf of Korean culture, without knowing the context, that can easily be construed as misinformation because it's by someone who is ignorant of the context. That's a very common and valid criticism. The problem is, your criticism applies to COMMENTS THAT LOOK EXACTLY LIKE YOURS.

Yes, and that's the problem you doofus. Your foreign opinion, construed as though it's coming from a Korean, is what YOU were criticizing as it's likely misinformation (which your "opinion" is). I am "parading" Koreans are offended BECAUSE THEY ARE OFFENDED AND IT'S ON THE KOREAN NEWS.

Riiiiight. After reading my "drivel" two people independently conjured up the same absurd interpretation from my drivel. It's sad that you probably don't even recognize how stupid you sound.

Are you dumb? I'm asking you to quote me where I even implied that argument. This will prove that you're not some pathetic alt account, and I made the mistake of making a claim that I didn't mean. Otherwise, probabalistically, I already know you use alts based on the likes, so now it's a matter of whether the person down below is actually your alt or not because the probability that two random people just hallucinate the same absurd misinterpretation is astronomically low.

You're literally writing ignorant and arrogant comments like this:

"Her apology is more than sufficient here & she should be able to have her blooming career continue in any normal sane industry but knowing how misogynistic that industry is, it is possible we never see her again."

And you're lecturing people about non-Koreans speaking on behalf of Koreans. Then you have the nerve to talk about the lack of self awareness and clown behavior. Go back to TikTok.

That never was my argument... That was you hallucinating or miscomprehending what I was saying on your alt account. I challenged you to quote me directly. I'm not even sure what the hell do you even think my argument was? If you're using AI, because my guess is you're projecting, use a higher version GPT model and it will probably properly interpret what my argument is.

That's literally YOU. You're calling out YOURSELF. Koreans are the ones crying foul because of the historical context, you fool. It's not foreigners who are doing that. They're doing the opposite because they don't know the context like yourself.

It's now 6 likes in 30 minutes you mentally ill person. There is not much traction on this page and it's highly unlikely that your insane comment gets that many likes this quickly. I also love how you gloss over my main suspicion. You hallucinated an argument that I never made where you thought I was arguing Ha Young secretly knew the grandpa's history. You can scour through all my comments on this site and not one sentence will indicate I have ever argued this. So, what are the odds that two people I am debating happen to just hallucinate the same illogical and absurd misinterpretation simultaneously? How about you look through any of the sentences that I have produced and quote me directly where I even implied this argument?

Yeah, you tried to LARP as a Korean. Read your original post. You're a non-Korean yourself, you fool, but non-Koreans who don't share the same view as you, they can't commentate, but you the enlightened non-Korean can speak about Korean issues with such strong opinions when you don't understand the context of anything?????

Look, you're like the user below. Whether she actually knew or not is irrelevant because no one is arguing she is evil. The argument is, is it rational for Koreans to be offended? With a little bit of reflection, it's clear that ignorance doesn't affect whether people would be offended or not especially when it involves whether people are supporting you. Maybe in the court of law to determine a sentencing, but she isn't a criminal and she isn't being punished. She is losing supporters. Now, add in the additional factor that the agency tried to cover up and backtracked only after public scrutiny and there is an extra layer of resentment.

"Read between the lines" because that's how you're going to arrive toward what actually happened as a non-Korean. None of the English sources that I can find is detailing the events, much like many of the prior scandals. Only the main news. You can ask someone who knows Korean or watch the Korean news and you'd know the timeline for the sequence of events.

Also, that's not what I said. There were some production companies that sided with Ha Young even amidst the controversy, but stopped once her agency backtracked. I only state this because this is history repeating itself as Ha Young and her agency aren't the only celebrity cases who tried to cover up the issue and has faced backlash for trying to cover up the issue because it looks entitled.

In your original post, you're a non-Korean lecturing other non-Koreans about misinformation and not knowing the context when you fit that very bill. Practice what you preach.

Why are you using alternative accounts? 3 likes in 5 minutes? Pathetic. You're also repeating the same miscomprehension as the user below that I'm claiming Ha Young secretly knew about her grandpa's history, or she lied about her apology, when NONE of my replies ever made such a claim. You're either reading their arguments and unable to comprehend the arguments properly so you simply take their arguments as your own, or more likely the case, that's you and your pathetic alt account.

Her agency tried to cover it up by saying the netizens were using groundless facts and rumors to stir up hate. Then, MSM got a hold of it, journalists and activists commentated on the veracity, and the agency backtracked their statement. It's not misinformation. Read between the lines of the agency's initial statement and their latest apology or the statements provided by production companies that initially defended her and stopped after, because you're clearly not Korean. "LOL."

You're arguing by yourself atp. Why do you keep insisting that I am "assuming" she knew of her grandpa's darker history? In all my replies, not once did I ever argue this. I kept saying she doesn't deserve to be punished for her ancestor's sins.

My argument is she deserves criticism for praising him (whether done out of ignorance or not) and that her relation to her grandpa is enough for people to stop supporting her because supporting an actor or actress for the top roles is a very privileged position where fans are engaging in basically a popularity contest. As I said, why should Koreans pick her over a more humble actress if their talents and glamor are about her level? This would be the sentiment. Not what you seem to continuously think I'm claiming that she is evil and never deserves to act because of her ancestor!

I gave you the robber baron example. I also provided the historical context. If you don't understand after all that, you don't understand. He was not just some mere "successful doctor" with a bunch of doctor children. That is ignoring the damn context as I repeated ad nauseum. Stop applying the sociopolitical landscape of a modern democratic society to fucking society under Japanese imperialism!

You can argue it's not a "morality contest" all you want, but society picks and chooses their top actors. These actors are determined by their looks, personality, their acting skills, etc. You obviously don't understand the context and Korea's history, nor does it seem like you are bothering to try to learn it, so let me use an example that might ring closer to you. Suppose you dislike Trump. Suppose an actor's spouse is closely related to Trump. The actor and the spouse are two different individuals. Being an actor is not a "political contest." Regardless, if that actor isn't exceptional as an actor amongst his actor peers, then many people will drop their support for them for all kinds of reasons because there are various replacements. You can argue that only if the actor actively and openly endorses certain Trumpian views will you drop your support, but that's your prerogative and your subjective and arbitrary condition for supporting an actor. This isn't a universal law that everyone abides by. Some people may feel a certain way about Trump and it may reflect on their reluctance to support an actor. And clearly that's how Koreans feel with Ha Young right now but amplified much more than being resentful about the orange man for obvious reasons.