START-UP rants, discussions, facts, ANYTHING

 Kefkiroth:

He has very little experience with girls and has the nerdy stereotype of overexplaining things / not knowing how to talk to a girl, so it's understandable he gets super attached to his first real relationship. In the start, he told HJP that he never had a chance to talk to a girl before, so he got really excited over SDM. And when he was talking to Alex, how he said that he'd give up his success for a person; as a guy who was kind of in a similar position, this was very relatable, personally. It's easy to get one-itis when you don't have a lot of experience.

HJP is unmarried in his 30s, and also focused more on his career growth, so I guess a similar thing could be said for him when he mentioned trading his wealth for her.

It's weird, that was his personality in ep. 2-4. Then literally the show just drops it, he transforms into the angsty teenager who is wallowing in the trials of his first love, gone is his innocent, naive, and geeky charming persona. Replaced by angsty NDS.

If the writers had just kept NDS personality from ep 2-4, he would get considerably more fans. But alas.

 Kimsamsoom:

He would rather tell sweet lies to avoid the person getting hurt, or sugar coat the truth, then to be honest and just prevent SDM from making the mistake. Big difference here.

I would disagree with this though. the contrast between HJP and NDS is not that one tells the truth and the other tells lies. Bcs if you want to frame NDS as a liar, HJP could also be said for the same. (bcs he lied to SDM about the letters too) In fact, NDS was one of the first ones who wanted to tell SDM about the letters but HJP and Haelmoni stopped him. And when HJP finally wanted to come clean to SDM, NDS said: "go ahead".
There are also many other instances where NDS is clearly is reluctant to lie and withhold the truth from SDM but circumstances and other people force him to not be able to tell SDM the truth. Like when Haelmoni said to not tell SDM about her condition. Or when he got the police report thing from WIJ's father but he didn't tell SDM bcs she was busy looking for investors and didn't wanna burden her.

Rather, the contrast is more like this: HJP is an experienced, realistic, wise and in some sense pessimistic kind of guy. Whereas NDS is an inexperienced, naive, stupid, unrealistic, and in this respect an overly-optimistic guy who thinks that so long he tries his best he can make his dreams (or in some cases, Dal Mi's dreams) into reality. That's why he tried so hard to develop NoonGil, and correct anything whenever Dal Mi wasn't happy (like the comment section thing that caused her to be unhappy).  That's why he tried so hard to fight for the lawsuit thing against 2STO even though HJP said it was unrealistic. Tbh, when else did NDS lie and sugarcoat the truth?   

 Kristances:

here are also many other instances where NDS is clearly is reluctant to lie and withhold the truth from SDM but circumstances and other people force him to not be able to tell SDM the truth. Like when Haelmoni said to not tell SDM about her condition. Or when he got the police report thing from WIJ's father but he didn't tell SDM bcs she was busy looking for investors and didn't wanna burden her.

Yes, HJP has also lied a lot, but in terms of showing reluctance to lie, HJP has more scenes where he is showing remorse. In fact, a lot of NDS scenes where he lies, he clearly shows no remorse for them. You can re-watch the scenes so you can see what I am pointing out. Why NDS decides to lie on so so many small things is beyond me.

But the lies are not so much a big deal for me anymore. It's the fact that if you love someone, you tell them the truth regardless of how painful it is to hear, you don't encourage them blindly, that just ends up hurting them in the long run.

I think you are remembering wrongly. First HJP lies, then grandma says she will tell the truth, then HJP wants to tell the truth, but NDS says if we do this we won't get caught, then NDS says he wants to tell the truth, HJP says its a mistake, and NDS himself stops himself from telling the truth, it wasn't because of HJP's words, but Halmoni's condition. Then HJP wanted to tell, but grandma stops him. Then SDM finds out herself.

That's the problem, "I didn't want to burden you" is such a lame excuse in Real life and in Kdrama. If something as important as a police investigation that could jeopardize SST's future happens, you tell the CEO. What you pointed out here, is another bad strike on Start Up, CEO's without any actual power, or CEO's people don't respect.

eh, not sure if I want to dig up every single lie and sugar coating. But I made a post of this a few days back or last week, if you want you can dig through the comment section, it was a long list I wrote.

But one that comes to mind of sugar coating the truth is he keeps telling SDM she is a genius, and how she is very vital for SST. This was not the case, and all this ended up doing is hurting her when she realize she and Saha were expendable by Alex. Also, remember how he kept telling her "my shares are yours". It's all too HS romantic, and not enough common sense. I mean in terms of Grand Romantic Gestures, NDS is amazing, but this is 2020, those things have little substance but being romantic at that time. I even wrote a comment about this as a PSA to guys. In real life, rather than keep making grand romantic gestures that become harder to maintain, focus on smaller gestures that occur at a more consistent matter. It will build a much stronger foundation.

This is always the argument for NDS, "oh, he's just not mature enough" If this is the argument, then you can argue this for every single ML and SL in every single Kdrama out there. And I hate the argument, as any time skip can solve it... It's not a fair fight to be honest, if the discrepancy of the ML can just be fixed by a simple time skip. It's very lazy writing.

Also, I don't know about you, but after the time skip, i'm seeing both SDM and NDS regressing. SDM moreso than NDS, she's a complete idiot at this moment, and I whole heartedly believe she is only in this CEO position because she's WIJ sister. Even the twin developers refer to her as incompetent, and her actions have shown this to be true. 

As of now, she has not shown why she should be CEO of a multi billion dollar Won company. 

@Kimsamsoom

Lol I agree that SDM got the job at WIJ's company thanks to good ol' nepotism. Perhaps more than nepotism, it was guilt, pity or something of that nature; WIJ deciding to be an older sister.  The fact that she chose to listen to SDM in the first place attests to that. 

Anyways, you've all been going at this HJP vs NDS thing for days, and it doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. If you're enjoying it, then by all means continue, though you must be exhausted of it by now. 

Anyway, the only things I want from this drama at this point are these (not necessarily in this order):

1) DoDal relationship gets sorted out.

2) WIJ family issues sorted out.

3) Happy ending for HJP. If he gets a mopey "I'm all alone like I've always been " ending I might flip. 

4) Samsan Tech treating HJP with the respect he deserves. The only one who was decent to him all the way through was Chul-San. Chul-San is dumb but he wears his heart on his sleeve and wouldn't hurt a fly. He's the most genuine character in the whole entire drama. 

There's also something I've been curious about since ep2. What happened to SDM's dad's business? Did it just simply wink out of exsistence? 

 Daydreamologist:

Lol I agree that SDM got the job at WIJ's company thanks to good ol' nepotism. Perhaps more than nepotism, it was guilt, pity or something of that nature; WIJ deciding to be an older sister.  The fact that she chose to listen to SDM in the first place attests to that. 

Yep, nepotism at it's worse.

Few more days, then hopefully this show will let go of the hold it has on me. I'm quite invested in HJP's happy ending. SDM and NDS ending has been written in stone since episode 7, so I don't really care much what happens to them.

I never get tired of discussing HJP, because I relate quite well with his selflessness.

If he becomes richer as his happy ending i'll be unhappy. I'm personally hoping he just leaves the country, no way I can imagine he and NDS suddenly having a close bromance after 14 episodes of animosity.

I think Yong San seeking HJP for advice satisfies your #4. Yeah after episode 12, Cheul San went up in my books as well.

Baedal, SDM's dad's business is very similar to the Grab, Uber Eats we have now. It's a platform that requires a huge subscriber base, and will be unprofitable for years and years. Grab and Uber Eats until now are not making a cent, and in fact are losing money.

I'm guessing someone already provided it, because there is an episode where SDM's mom is in the bang cafe and looking at a website that looks very similar to the dad's idea.

 Kimsamsoom:

It's the fact that if you love someone, you tell them the truth regardless of how painful it is to hear, you don't encourage them blindly, that just ends up hurting them in the long run.

I totally agree with this, that love is not about being sweet and being "optimistic", it's about being truthful and honest and real- even if that causes pain. So I'm not saying NDS got love right, but I'm arguing that NDS does not have the capacity to be truthful; bcs firstly of his age, as well as his inexperience in start-up stuffs and love stuff, his immaturity, and lastly bcs that's just the way he sees the world- to him, to be "truthful" is to be encouraging and hopeful.  

I'm not justifying that this is, therefore, the right way to think about love though. I'm just saying that this is part of his character arc- to learn what love truly means- to come to terms with reality and just generally how life works. Basically a typical coming-of-age film kind of character arc.  I'm also saying to therefore conclude him as pathetic and toxic and a liar is kind of... a quick jump, bcs it's more like character flaws. but er.... yeah they didn't deal with his character growth well la, the time-skip really ruined his character. But i hope this shows you a diff perspective to NDS' character, bcs it's not as bad as it seems :0 

 Kimsamsoom:

I think you are remembering wrongly.

Yeah, perhaps i don't remember the exact order. But there was this clear scene (i think it was ep8?) when NDS was about to confront SDM with the truth but HJP was like "why must I follow your rules and see what you're gonna do" or smtg like that then he did a big U-Turn and dragged NDS out of the house. tbh i don't rmbr what was the exact context of the scene, but case in point is how NDS was always reluctant to lie to SDM too. 

 Kimsamsoom:

That's the problem, "I didn't want to burden you" is such a lame excuse in Real life and in Kdrama.

It sounds like a lame excuse, but think about it, in his pov- he was the one who did it, and is now laden with guilt, it is completely none of SST's or SDM's fault, so he thought he could just quickly get it over with... taking full responsibility you know...
But i guess that was part of his character arc- that what you think is best for others may not actually be the best. what you perceive of others may not be true. Which was kindaaaaaa dealt with in ep14 in that convo w SDM and she told him that "the journey here was hard for me too" and he realises that he assumes a lot about SDM

 Kimsamsoom:

But one that comes to mind of sugar coating the truth is he keeps telling SDM she is a genius, and how she is very vital for SST.

ehhh wasn't this true though? I mean she wasn't exactly a "genius" but she was indeed quite vital for SST. Even HJP said it himself that SST could never succeed bcs none of them are business-savvy and none of them are CEO-material and that SDM has more of a chance than the three of them. SDM was like the final piece to the puzzle to cause the engines moving bcs she was business-savvy. so i really believe that NDS was telling the truth. Alex dropped her bcs he didn't need business-savvy people in 2STO, he needed developers.  

 Kristances:

So I'm not saying NDS got love right, but I'm arguing that NDS does not have the capacity to be truthful; bcs firstly of his age, as well as his inexperience in start-up stuffs and love stuff, his immaturity, and lastly bcs that's just the way he sees the world- to him, to be "truthful" is to be encouraging and hopeful.  

Eh, like I said, we can't excuse people doing wrong things on immaturity, otherwise we will be using this excuse forever. But like I said, the lying isn't my biggest gripe anymore.

 Kristances:

Yeah, perhaps i don't remember the exact order. But there was this clear scene (i think it was ep8?) when NDS was about to confront SDM with the truth but HJP was like "why must I follow your rules and see what you're gonna do"

The scene you are talking about, by the time HJP gets there, he is too late to "drag" NDS out. NDS decides on his own to continue lying, not because of HJP's words. The conversation you are talking about is when HJP advises him not to tell, but NDS just ignores him and taunts HJP that the present is greater than the past. 

 Kristances:

It sounds like a lame excuse, but think about it, in his pov- he was the one who did it, and is now laden with guilt, it is completely none of SST's or SDM's fault, so he thought he could just quickly get it over with... taking full responsibility you know...

I have an issue how the show never lets NDS experience any ramification for his actions. 8/10 of his mistakes are either ignored, covered up, or quickly forgiven. This guy isn't going to grow up if nobody actually punishes him properly.

HJP, for making the same mistake as NDS, is getting punished far more in this show.

 Kristances:

ehhh wasn't this true though? I mean she wasn't exactly a "genius" but she was indeed quite vital for SST. Even HJP said it himself that SST could never succeed bcs none of them are business-savvy and none of them are CEO-material and that SDM has more of a chance than the three of them.

In reality, she wasn't. I've made comments on this as well in the comment section. If it was Injae company being acqhired by 2STO, I am 100% percent sure, WIJ gets pirated along with the twins, because WIJ has shown herself to be a very capable CEO. Nobody in demo day could miss how SDM pretty much stalled when asked a question about the product, it's not a good look on her competence. 

Plus the only people who think SDM with her 7% is vital to SST is NDS alone, and he has a reason to think so.

@Kimsamsoom

Don't judge NJH's acting on this drama. You should see him in Weightlifting Fairy. Sometimes I can't believe he's the same person. Weightlifting Fairy has hands down the most wholesome relationship ever. It hasn't held its 8.9 rating on MDL for nothing, you know. 

His acting in The Light in Your Eyes is superb as well, but that one's a tragedy. 

As for Suzy's other works, I've only seen Dream High and While You Were Sleeping. While You Were Sleeping is good. I can't judge Dream High objectively (well as objectively as it can get)  though because I was a newbie to kdramas then.