Sanshine

Hmm, I see your point. I don't fully agree (mostly because this is a totally different industry with a totally different fanbase and a totally different audience focus; also, the characters aren't dating anyone, it's easier to not have those narratives if the characters have lovers) but I see your point.

Hmm, I see. That totally makes sense. I just think—from my own understanding of the asian entertainment industry, and understanding of "bromance" as a genre—that may actually never happen. Simply because it's not really a concept that is, yet, widely understood by both the industry people and it's audience (and like other people in society, in general). It would be good to have series that explicitly state themselves as a QPR.

I absolutely agree. I just always think that if you pull away demand the supply will go away by itself. I said this already to the other person in this discussion, but wanting a company to hold up moral character is simply something that's not gonna happen. It's a company, and they will do anything to get the profits. So, no matter if you and I say hey this isn't right, as long as there are people who consume the stuff they put out, it doesn't matter the (for the lack of a better word) immorality of it. And on the fandom note, even if the company decided hey we're gonna make this SO explicitly like friendship that its incontestable, I really don't think the fans who want a specific type of content (that being, a bl) will magically disappear or stop making their own interpretations.

But what counts as explicit, then? What do the characters need to say/do to make it not be seen as romantic, or not be bait? Because tbh the actors have clarified the characters don't like each other, the characters in the story have also clarified they don't like each other in the story itself. It's just that them clarifying has not really done anything to the interpretations of romance. And can this be attributed to people, broadly, not being able to see strong love as UNromantic? /s

I see. Yes, the narratives around Wu are exactly that. But, people are shipping the characters in Wu because people ship Sky and Nani, and that leans more in 1) the implicit sexualization of them as a pairing, and 2) the fetishization of queer men/queer relationships in BL fandoms. But even as I read what all you've written I still think this is a fandom problem, irrespective of whatever GMMTV is trying to do, and part of the problem is also just that most BL fans are het, cis women. And I don't necessarily agree that them being marketed as a pair is wrong, I just think that because GMMTV is most famous for BLs, most people who like Sky and Nani are also the same people who like BLs, and that's why the "basically a couple" narrative exists. Because at the end of the day one can very well say that Wu stands only on a friendship narrative and it won't matter to fans watching because they WANT to ship the characters.

Hmm, I can absolutely agree to that, I just think that THAT as a broader concept is not very known specially in Asian societies. Like I didn't actually know that was a thing (or that it had a word) until you told me just now, so thank you for that. (Also I'm not saying this means you're not Asian, like you could be lol, I'm just saying it's definitely not common for people to know this word or its core concept.)

Sorry, then I can't comment on this broader trend because I'm approaching this conversation from a Wu and Mr. Kill perspective, and I can't really say what's happening and what isn't. But on your point of wanting a distinction, atleast in Wu's case, there is a distinction, and people want to just ignore it. Also, sorry, but I don't really understand what you mean by "If it wants to capitalize on romantic speculation, that’s a different conversation. But pretending those are exactly the same thing is where I disagree." You can explain if you're willing, otherwise all good. But just to be clear, capitalizing on romantic speculation does fall under queerbaiting, I just don't think that's where the conversation ends. As I said in my original comment, it's not as black and white as that.

I can agree, but expecting a company to stick to a moral high ground is not a very wise way to approach this; which is also why I keep saying these conversations need to be had between fandoms. Also, it may be my bad wording but I don't think I said it's queer platonic love, cause none of the characters are queer. So it's just platonic love between two straight men, which is what I was talking about.

First of all, the issue with mainstream media never making a man+woman friendship is EXACTLY the issue in BL fandoms: people just absolutely refuse to believe they're "really" friends so they can feed their own fantasies. That's why mainstream media barely show a strong man+woman friendship. And that is what's happening here too. Infact, broadly in society if two men get too close everyone starts calling them gay, as if men can't be close or love each other without it being romantic. Plus, why should it be a one-time thing? Aren't you yourself pushing the "two men cannot be only friends" thing when you say this? Because why shouldn't they be allowed to act together if they enjoy working with each other? That makes no sense.

Sorry, but there are literally no "romantic coded scenes, lingering looks...suggestive dialogue, jealousy, and constant ambiguity" in any of the series mentioned here, like one of them isn't even released yet lmao. I've omitted intimate moments because, yes, Wu has them, and there is absolutely no reason why it can't. Plus, you're using the word "male friendship" and not "platonic love". These series ARE depicting a kind of love, it's just not romantic. They're allowed to showcase love where the characters care enough to go to any length for each other. Because friends absolutely do that for each other. Platonic love is real, strong, and it can be showcased as greater than romance because sometimes IT IS. And what you guys are trying to push by saying all of this actively undermines platonic love and treats it as lesser than. If a deep love between friends "looks" romantic to you (and I don't mean you as in YOU, just everyone), that's your problem. Plus, if you've been keeping up with the conversations around Wu there's barely anyone who wants to be "reassured" its not a BL. Everyone WANTS it to be a BL. And GMMTV is capitalizing on that, I agree. But as I've said already, they're capitalizing on it because people cannot not fetishize two men who act together. THATS the problem. Because even if GMMTV did everything in their right to market this as a male "friendship", people would still not be convinced it is. In fact, the two scenes that people flipped out over in Wu are the characters explicitly clarifying what they feel towards each other (and STILL interpreted the wrong thing from what they said lmao). They could not have been more obvious about what they are to each other. Sky and Nani have had to repeatedly correct interviewers who force the BL narrative on them. Do you think they enjoy that? I'm pretty sure they don't. You can't talk about what GMMTV is doing and completely ignore why it's happening in the first place. The audience is where this starts, not the company, not the actors, not the story; THE AUDIENCE.

The way you had absolutely nothing constructive to add is really telling and makes me solidify my lack of care for opinions of people who can't justify their stance.

It's literally calling out BL fans that think everything is romantic between men who do BLs. If you feel weird this is most definitely about fans like you lmao.

I love when people on the internet have no idea what they're talking about. It's such a lovely addition to any type of discourse. The internet has deluded you guys into believing that everything is black and white and every situation can be judged as such. GMMTV is literally built on BLs, they are not trying to avoid showing queer representation. Wu and Mr. Kill have actors who have made choices to not do BLs, and they're very well allowed to make that choice. When you say "scenes...to entice shippers" you're literally just talking about men speaking open-heartedly with each other. And while this showcases the broader issues with BL fandoms where everything between men is seen as romantic, you're actually doing the same thing. Because tell me why softer conversations between two men is what you see as "scenes...to entice shippers"? LET SOFT MALE FRIENDSHIP EXIST. And have you ever tried to wonder why these actors are choosing not to do BLs when the amount of toxicity in BL fandoms is off the charts? Instead of focusing on a fandom problem and trying to fix the issue where it begins by interacting with the problem people, you choose to deliver blame to a person(s) you will never have to interact with in your life so you can feel high and mighty about your moral high ground while not having to deal with actually doing something about the issue. Sky and Nani have said multiple, multiple times the characters have nothing between them, they are not being "ambiguous" about what's going on on-screen. ONCE AGAIN the issue is with people who simply choose to ignore what the actors are saying. And it's the same issue with Dew and Tee. Tee has been pretty open about their pairing not being a BL pairing.