Adoramei

(Side note, part 2 of previous comment) Just to expand on the whole family vs clan thing... Like, I grew up in a Chinese family, and my cousins feel like my siblings. Since I grew up in the US, I've been surrounded by people who can actually feud with their cousins and be estranged from their families, and that was a huge culture shock to me. But I don't have any trouble understanding that a clan is completely different to what I have with my family.

There were even people I grew up around who I called aunty but knew that they weren't my aunt-- in fact, I assumed that we weren't related, since my mom usually gives us the rundown of how we're related to so-and-so if we have any kind of shared blood. But like, I developed a family-like bond with them because they had that with my mom. But I didn't apply that to the rest of their family, because like.. that's not how it works. Turns out that we kind of were related though? Like, decades later, my mom told me that they came from the same village as my grandma. Which I had to further piece together was possibly a patrilineal village. My mom was always very vague about it, but after immigrating, it didn't matter. The community sticks together, so we solidify our bonds, family or not.

And we have people who grew up with our family that have that (?Family?) kind of closeness with us, like they're there at our family parties and stuff, but our parents never fill in the dots of who's related to who and how, so we have a big question mark on the bloodline question. (Not that it matters to us. I mean, we treat them like family, so they are family, but they're not our first thought if the cousins needs a donor for something, you know? I think like.. one of them is the son of someone who owned a restaurant and they hired my mom and several of her siblings.) I do get what you mean about adopted family being family, but what I'm describing is an actual family. However, even I learned how to separate my cultural experience with what the author is writing about. The author is still writing about a historical and ancient *clan*, set in China. Totally different lens.

Plus, from what I remember of the Zhang clan, they do tend to marry within the clan. I think like.. Zhang Qiling's father was a Zhang who had a him with an outsider, and that wasn't considered acceptable. So, he took the baby back to the family, they performed the ritual thing > ??? > profit (in the form of the Zhang Qiling that later becomes part of the Iron Triangle). (I might have the parents mixed up. But I know one of them wasn't and one was.) It's been a few years since I read about any of that.

But the Zhang clan doesn't meet another Zhang and give them a warm hug, instantly think of them as family. And they come from a place where surnames might be shared by a lot of people who have no traceable common ancestors. Zhang is like.. a really, really common surname. But within the clan itself, they're not going, "Ooh, family." It's not like being introduced by your parents and being told how you're related. It's like being introduced by a boss who also shares your surname and you're working together now. I mean.. not completely, but you know.. that's why it's so hard to explain. There's no exact analogy to our experiences.

I mean... unless your culture is completely different. Plus, it's a clan that shares one of the most common surnames in China, not a family as we know it. These children might not even meet each other or interact in any meaningful way. They don't necessarily grow up together and play together or call each other cousin. (Like, it would probably be less common to know your actual cousin in that situation. More like your great grandfather's possibly half-cousin's half-sibling's kid's kid's kids, and the people from the eldest generation had a different hometown and never even knew that the other existed.) Especially in the Zhang clan. I mean, they don't raise children to be children. You getting uncomfortable about it by modern standards within your culture is understandable, but the rest of the world isn't going to adhere to that. I mean, sure, I agree when I'm watching something modern day and western. There's practically a kink culture built around it. Kink anything makes me uncomfortable in general, but that one takes me aback. In a place where incest is a major taboo, for people to whip back around and turn it into something like that.. yeah. It's sooooo much worse than Chinese culture stuff, in my opinion. I mean, personally, I see things through that western lens too, since I was born in the US. I honestly assumed that's where you're coming from too. If so, I can see why the ick is so strong.

But like, when it comes to Chinese culture and stuff, not only do I switch my cultural lens, I don't even see this as a similar situation. Besides, you even mention modern day adoptions. Which means you know that there's a difference. (Also, Chinese Republican Era was still 1912–1949.) We're not in the situation of a modern adoption, in either culture. And they're still not in a family. It's a clan. Getting close to one another in that situation is like with strangers-- it's a choice, and whatever closeness you have is earned. It's not a common thing to do. And unless they start with a close family bond, the bond that they develop fighting together has nothing to do with familial closeness.

Like, I'm not making excuses to okay anything. I'm just saying that it's something completely different to anything we have in our lives and experiences to compare it to.

People within the Zhang clan are more like strangers or even rivals with a shared affiliation. And there's even an inner circle, which, if I remember correctly, they're not even a part of. That inner circle has something closer to family ties, probably because they can trace back to a common core ancestor much easier. Which means that those outer-circle Zhangs generally have even more distance. If anything, the thing that binds them together isn't a loyalty to their surname or whatever blood they might share, it's a loyalty to a common cause or drive.

We had The Spirealm too! Somehow. I was shocked about that one. I mean, it was leaked in full by accident, but it was still airing to begin with. And it's on Viki now in full, so I guess they somehow didn't clamp down on it after the fact. Annd maybe they would have let it air completely. China doesn't tend to just give up on things once it's leaked. They tend to do what they can to keep things in line with their original intentions, so they plug up the leaks and lock it down. So maaaybe Spirealm might have been aired completely. Unlike Justice in the Dark, which technically did air in full.... years later, via a Japanese company. Takes a couple of extra steps if you need subtitles, but it's at least accessible to the public. (Not sure what it's like on the other side of the Great Firewall though. XD But with a VPN, that's a bit of a moot point.)

But yeah, in general, these are the last ones that we got. For now, anyways. T_T

My link is a bit broken there. Just add the end parentheses in manually or copy/paste the link. Sorry.

Just pointing out that they were from the same clan, but they weren't brothers. Zhang Hailou was adopted in. Here's a link to his character bio in case you're interested. It's the novel version, but the show version on the site doesn't have anything in it., and it really is pretty close to the novel anyways. That part, anyhow.
https://daomu-biji.fandom.com/wiki/Zhang_Haiyan_(Novel)

They also weren't adopted brothers either. They had a different set of parents from within a clan that isn't like... the same as a family as we think of it. There's more distance between them and less familial affection. I never got the vibe that they were brothers either way, but I'm used to people calling one another ge and je in Chinese. Like, it's a politeness thing or a closeness thing, more often than a literal thing. Even couples or romantic interests do it. XD And like, surnames that come from affiliations like sects might be attached to a lot of unrelated people too. Like the usual thing with a secf adopting orphans as disciples and stuff. Different from a clan, sure, but just saying that it's common for one Zhang to meet the next as strangers. Like, closeness is earned. Not sure which part got confusing there, but both of those reasons are why assuming someone's a literal sibling in Chinese media is a bit more iffy. I mean, it's usually easier to figure out by them mentioning clearly that they have the same set of parents. (Which isn't always a sure thing due to adoption or concubinage, but sometimes, that is a decent indicator of whether or not they see themselves as siblings.)

It's really easy to find! Like, there's one English translation for the whole thing up that's easy to access right now. So, if you lose it in the future and want to google it, just know that it's easy to find. :) You can download the translations in pdf or epub format, I believe. They're not perfect, but they're pretty good. Uh... my only issue is that they call Xiao Ge Little Brother, which is... well, that's not a great translation of the name. It could literally be broken down into little (Xiao) and elder brother (Ge), but it's not the word for little brother. And it's already a word, that means something else altogether, which is why they call him that-- but I digress. The only thing that might get confusing on that note is that you'll have Little Brother and Little Brother Zhang existing in the same place, which.. gets confusing, because they're both from the Zhang clan. XD Anyways, just saying: it's not perfect, but it's pretty good.

Southern Archives is here:
https://merebear474765851.wordpress.com/the-southern-archives/

And here's the main page with the chronological map:
https://merebear474765851.wordpress.com/

Hiding it under a spoiler tag just in case. I wanted to make it clear that it would be easy to search for and not give it out directly, because that's how things get taken down. Less likely with this, since they already stopped trying to publish this in English. But you never know.

Then, any of the other Lost Tomb dramas I mentioned will definitely fit those interests, whenever you feel like picking them up. But Time Raiders and Lost Tomb 1 are both shorter... like... 10 for Lost Tomb, 18 for Time Raiders. They're the ones that cover the same plot, roughly. Time Raiders is newer, and I've barely started it, but I've heard a lot of people say that it's good. I have a soft spot for The Lost Tomb 1, mostly because it was the thing that introduced me to the series. I hope you get some time to watch!

I feel you on the tragic endings thing. For the most part, I limit my "tragic endings" series, unless there's a novel canon or something that actually points to a good ending. Then, I can kind of ignore the sad I'm seeing on screen easier. Like Guardian was great, until the end destroys you, but I know that the novel ending is a happy one. And with Untamed, depending on which version you see, the end can either seem depressing or hopeful. But the novel definitely ends on a high note. And Word of Honor, The Spirealm, Mysterious Lotus Casebook, etc etc etc.

If my time was still limited like that, I definitely wouldn't want to invest my time, only to have to emotionally digest a sad ending. I hope in the meantime, you find something more to your liking. :)

I almost forgot to mention! There are movies! There are two Iron Triangle ones that aren't hard to find, from 2023: Conjuring Curse and Misty Creed. They're more adventure-y and less... relationship building than Ultimate Note. (Mostly because everything is already established.) I enjoyed them, and it's something quick to watch. And there's a good one with Hei Xiazi and Pink Shirt (Xie Yuchen), teaming up in the post-Reunion era. I think that one's called Mystery of the Abyss. All of these are more adventure-based and don't have any tragic endings. Plus, they're each easy to find. :) There are more movies, but if you like the dynamics between familiar characters with close relationships like in Ultimate Note, these are the first ones I think of.

Yeah, I can see why Southern Archives wouldn't be for you. It's not my favourite part of the story either. Personally, I'll watch or read anything with Xiao Ge and Wu Xie in it. (As long as nobody's throwing some forced romantic plot in there for either of them, since it's just... out of character. I mean, even in the novels, after Book 8, they have the Reunion era stories. The Iron Triangle are finally living together, having a wild time.)

There are people out there who post the best parts of the novels, so you can read the best stuff, without reading an entire novel to get it. (I mean, I'll admit, even as a fan, I get overwhelmed with the length of them. I start skipping around a lot, especially if Xiao Ge is absent for long periods of time. Which he honestly tends to be a lot. Just runs off without saying anything, while Wu Xie overthinks it.) Just a thought, in case you wanted to catch the stuff you missed out on, without all of that commitment. None of the dramas could depict how unhinged they are in their dynamic, especially in the lengths that they go to to protect each other. So you'd get the best parts in a few paragraphs at a time. i mean, I'm assuming that like me, that's the part you liked, considering you also enjoyed the Untamed.

If you want all of those.. character dynamics and you still want something where at least the main characters survive, any of the dramas with the Iron Triangle would work. Like.. Time Raiders came out pretty recently, and that covers the Iron Triangle meeting each other and kicking off their journey. (Personally, I'd watch both that and The Lost Tomb, because the PingXie is strong in both. They both cover the same plot, basically, while The Lost Tomb veers way off course from the novels, especially at the beginning. But if you don't read the novels, it doesn't really matter, right?) Then, there's The Lost Tomb 2/Explore with the Note (Part 1 and 2). Ultimate Note picks up after that, then there's a weird skip. But there's technically Tomb of the Sea/Sand Sea next, but it doesn't feature the Iron Triangle, since Xiao Ge is stuck somewhere at the time. And it feels a bit different. Like, it's enjoyable on its own, but it feels like Wu Xie got old all of a sudden. He's a bit of a different Wu Xie in his time without Xiao Ge. This one I feel can be watched separately. Then, there's Reunion/Reboot Part 1 and 2 (not a story reboot but a reboot of the Iron Triangle antics). Ultimate Note and Reunion seem to have a similar number of fans and honestly, they're the highest quality productions of the series. Reunion has one of the most charismatic, playful versions of Wu Xie-- same with Pangzi. Like, if it wasn't for the fact that Xiao Ge isn't in it as much, and they had some with female characters to make it less... y'know, it would definitely be my favourite drama in the series. (But like, nothing actually pans out with the female characters. One is a one-sided crush on Wu Xie, but she's much more annoying than her novel counterpart, who I actually find tolerable in text. One is a weird, short-lived, no-chemistry thing with Sunglasses/Hei Xiazi.) The only thing with Reunion is that you'd have to dig deep to find Part 2 properly. (The ending has a sad element to it, but that's like.. all Cdramas. And it has nothing to do with the fates of the iron triangle. It's overall a victorious end to a journey.)

Like, I can see that this specific drama isn't for you. I'm probably going to watch it once, just to watch it, then be done with it, but fortunately, there's still a lot of Lost Tomb out there that might fit your interests. :)

Editing to add: Almost forgot Adventure Behind the Bronze Gate, somewhere between Reunion and Sand Sea/Tomb of the Sea. Oops.

Yeah, it's related to DMBJ (Daomu Biji)/ The Lost Tomb/ Graverobber's Chronicles. Novel-wise, I think that Ultimate Note events happen with bits of Novels 4-7 out of the primary 8. (All set in modern times, with the adventures of the Iron Triangle that you're familiar with). This is based on the South Sea Archives, which is like.... prequel-era, set around the Chinese Republican Era (so, almost 100 years prior?) and shares some of the timeline of the Mystic Nine, I believe. (I haven't read the Mystic Nine, but a primary character from that does show up in the novel for this one. A not-immortal one, so it has to be around the same time.) Anyways, this is basically Xiao Ge's Zhang family. Much later, the lives of Zhang Hailou/Little Brother Zhang and the Iron Triangle intersect. Basically, after Ultimate Note is over. And way after, or between the plots of, the dramas that take place after.

There are translations for the current novels up, on a single site, if you're interested. Ultimate Note ends right before some of the best parts. They barely cover it at all in the dramas that take place after that, so the novels are where you get the best coverage of the emotional rollercoasters. Hopefully, I answered the second question clearly enough. Haha. Sorry. I know you didn't ask about the novels, but the novels are a clearer timeline that you can hold the dramas up to when you need a roadmap.

Just saying.. technically, Chinese productions have to be more "sci fi", if you're following the strictest definitions. Like, censorship (or whatever it falls under) and all typically makes them explain once or twice like, "Nothing is unexplainable." or something. (Then, you'll see something that they can't really explain, and that may or may not be addressed. You just have to accept that things tend to be left unsaid and read between the lines.) I believe it has something to do with cutting down on superstitious attitudes and all that. Now, the books definitely have more fantasy/supernatural elements. Things don't have to be explained. Though, it's not like science is just ignored-- sometimes, the narrator just goes on a spiel about some obscure thing that the learned somewhere. Which, really, just makes the unexplainable parts more real, since they're allowed to exist together like that.

In general, when watching Chinese anything, you'll only confuse yourself if you take every word literally. So.. the answer to this isn't quite cut and dry. I mean, officially, sure, just say that everything is explainable. But if you're actually watching... y'know.