I feel the same. It stopped being good after the rape which everyone seems not too bothered by. I thought it was…
What are you talking about? There are people all over this board losing their shit about the alleged "rape." "Horrible and selfish" makes for a great bad guy/villain type, right? And where would drama be without bad guys and villains?
Am I the only one who thinks the step brother is super creepy, and he basically raped his brother.
He IS kind of creepy which adds a great deal of depth to the character and the story. Except they are NOT brothers and lots of us don't agree there was any rape. So there ya go! :D
I think this drama is more about learning to forgive and love oneself rather than the physical and romantic aspect…
Is there some reason why we can't have Tian's personal growth AND a believable Tian/Chief romantic progression in the same story? Even with the focus on Tian I stand by what I wrote above. We'd never see this in a straight version of the same story. They've played coy over and over with the romance and sexual aspect all the way through. Don't forget Chief standing around naked in front of Tian to show off his schwanz, and all for nothing. Even though Tian's supposedly hot for him and loves him he ran away like a scared little girl. It was nothing but a classic BL tease.
Same with sharing a bed under the mosquito net but no touching, etc. The sweet but poorly acted/staged shaving scene with no kiss, a kiss being the natural outcome of that sort of tender intimacy between two people in love anywhere but in BL World. Only in BLW do we get this silly, unrealistic behavior from supposedly adult males. And only in BLW would an audience accept it as plausible. It's the kind of thing that pulls me out of a story because it's so ridiculous, not to mention homophobic. "Yeah, let's put together a series largely about two men falling in love, but let's make sure there's no icky queer touching or kissing or anything like that, unless we absolutely have to, right at the end."
Astonishing. Consent can't be a thing when someone is this drunk. And supposed signals given (and I insist, supposed)…
LPR, I agree with almost everything you wrote, to the point I'm not going to pick out the points where I don't concur. I am happy to meet a fellow traveler who can enjoy a story BECAUSE it is so twisted and goes to such dark places. Frankly though, I don't include this show in that category really, because we both know it could have gone far deeper and darker than this.
I will take issue with the part of your last paragraph where you say "they put incest in it." This was most clearly NOT a case of incest of any kind. There is no law against step-brothers having sex or getting married, nor are there any laws I know of preventing step-brothers and sisters from marrying. There had better not be, as my son has been married for 12 years to his step-sister.. lol True story.
INCEST is sex between blood-related individuals, which these two are not, not even close. If someone wants to object to it on some "ick" grounds they can go there but I find that laughable. If someone wants to argue that a romantic relationship between unrelated step-siblings COULD IN SOME CASES be emotionally and psychologically a bad idea, but I don't believe that can be argued in this case just because they are steps. The younger step-bro needs therapy badly and the older one should require that as part of any reconciliation.
I would love to see a BL take on the question of real, actual incest between half or full-blooded siblings in the form of a physical and/or romantic relationship. THAT would be fascinating. Does a taboo against incest hold when the couple involved cannot reproduce and thus there is no possibility of producing genetically-compromised children, as is the case with any gay couple? Does that taboo hold if one half of a straight incest couple is infertile? If it does hold, why? If not, why?
One of my pet peeves is that even in 2021 so many people, in this thread and across the world, have a knee-jerk reactionary judgement against either couple because "ICK." lol "ICK" is not an intellectually valid argument. I've seen people on this board act as though the two step-brothers in this story are blood-related and the relationship is immoral well...BECAUSE! I don't have much tolerance for that.
Astonishing. Consent can't be a thing when someone is this drunk. And supposed signals given (and I insist, supposed)…
So...how do you react to dramas in which a person who you believe to have been raped falls in love with their rapist and vice versa and everything is hunky-dory at the end? Are you saying it is OK to feature a less than black and white sexual encounter as long as the supposedly guilty party gets the kind of punishment you believe to be appropriate, and not otherwise?
Astonishing. Consent can't be a thing when someone is this drunk. And supposed signals given (and I insist, supposed)…
At this point, as there have been many many comments back and forth on this matter shared below in this thread if you care to scroll down and read them, I'm not going to continue arguing the rape/not rape controversy.
Rather, I'm more interested in the idea that from an artistic freedom and story-telling perspective, it doesn't matter whether or not rape was depicted here. It is the show-makers' right to tell whatever story they wish in whatever manner they choose to tell it. It is a legitimate function of art to push buttons and challenge assumptions. The artists are not obligated to tell stories that make viewers comfortable at all times and in all ways, because the audience member has the right and ability, at any time whatsoever, to stop watching the program and walk away. That is how art and the commerce surrounding it works.
To summarize my position: This particular scenario was not rape. If I'm wrong and it was, it doesn't matter. Anyone traumatized or outraged by this content is free to stop watching. Any attempt by those same people to seek to censor or shut down this program so that it will not be accessible to others, is dangerous and bullshit. Those persons should seek employment with the government of the People's Republic of China as censorship is one of the things they do best.
omg. 18+ is for explicit, graphic pornography, complete with clear views of body part, actual sex and body fluids.…
Who's "worked up?" I state my views passionately and sometimes aggressively, much like the people who attack me with charges of being a rape apologist, pervert, mentally ill, etc. Have you left this message for them also? I don't believe there's some obligation to keep one's comments dispassionate when the purpose is to counter the statements of folks aggressively seeking to push an agenda with which I whole-heartedly disagree. Hmmm...yeah pretty sure I can tell you anything I want. Whether or not you oblige is entirely up to you. If someone is expressing outrage, mental and emotional upset, moral shock, etc. I don't see telling them to stop watching as a bad recommendation to make.
One episode left and the MC has not exchanged one single kiss or extended embrace. Would this ever happen in a straight version of the same story? Would one half of the straight couple have leaned in for a kiss and then passed out on the shoulder of the other half? Unlikely. This drama is over-rated in many respects. I used to say it had a great big heart despite all the shortcomings but all the tropes, cliches, internalized homophobia in directing choices, bad acting, etc. have worn me down. I'm down to a 5/10,\. Your mileage may vary.
I'm wondering if maybe the 'content rating' should to be changed to 18+ instead
omg. 18+ is for explicit, graphic pornography, complete with clear views of body part, actual sex and body fluids. Is that what this was to you? Stop watching before you stroke out. Kids don't' need to be afraid of dramatic, fictional, sexual scenarios presented as part of a drama. It is ALWAYS the "adults" who freak out.
Same with sharing a bed under the mosquito net but no touching, etc. The sweet but poorly acted/staged shaving scene with no kiss, a kiss being the natural outcome of that sort of tender intimacy between two people in love anywhere but in BL World. Only in BLW do we get this silly, unrealistic behavior from supposedly adult males. And only in BLW would an audience accept it as plausible. It's the kind of thing that pulls me out of a story because it's so ridiculous, not to mention homophobic. "Yeah, let's put together a series largely about two men falling in love, but let's make sure there's no icky queer touching or kissing or anything like that, unless we absolutely have to, right at the end."
I will take issue with the part of your last paragraph where you say "they put incest in it." This was most clearly NOT a case of incest of any kind. There is no law against step-brothers having sex or getting married, nor are there any laws I know of preventing step-brothers and sisters from marrying. There had better not be, as my son has been married for 12 years to his step-sister.. lol True story.
INCEST is sex between blood-related individuals, which these two are not, not even close. If someone wants to object to it on some "ick" grounds they can go there but I find that laughable. If someone wants to argue that a romantic relationship between unrelated step-siblings COULD IN SOME CASES be emotionally and psychologically a bad idea, but I don't believe that can be argued in this case just because they are steps. The younger step-bro needs therapy badly and the older one should require that as part of any reconciliation.
I would love to see a BL take on the question of real, actual incest between half or full-blooded siblings in the form of a physical and/or romantic relationship. THAT would be fascinating. Does a taboo against incest hold when the couple involved cannot reproduce and thus there is no possibility of producing genetically-compromised children, as is the case with any gay couple? Does that taboo hold if one half of a straight incest couple is infertile? If it does hold, why? If not, why?
One of my pet peeves is that even in 2021 so many people, in this thread and across the world, have a knee-jerk reactionary judgement against either couple because "ICK." lol "ICK" is not an intellectually valid argument. I've seen people on this board act as though the two step-brothers in this story are blood-related and the relationship is immoral well...BECAUSE! I don't have much tolerance for that.
Rather, I'm more interested in the idea that from an artistic freedom and story-telling perspective, it doesn't matter whether or not rape was depicted here. It is the show-makers' right to tell whatever story they wish in whatever manner they choose to tell it. It is a legitimate function of art to push buttons and challenge assumptions. The artists are not obligated to tell stories that make viewers comfortable at all times and in all ways, because the audience member has the right and ability, at any time whatsoever, to stop watching the program and walk away. That is how art and the commerce surrounding it works.
To summarize my position:
This particular scenario was not rape.
If I'm wrong and it was, it doesn't matter.
Anyone traumatized or outraged by this content is free to stop watching.
Any attempt by those same people to seek to censor or shut down this program so that it will not be accessible to others, is dangerous and bullshit. Those persons should seek employment with the government of the People's Republic of China as censorship is one of the things they do best.