You know I would have partially agreed with your comment if the story had been set in the 19th century... But…
I mean I don't entirely disagree with your answer, but again regarding this:
"Pin grew up in a specific family, with specific conditioning, in a specific class position that valued reputation above all else. The women’s suffrage movement existed, yes. But did Pin’s father teach her about it? Did her social circle model resistance? Was she ever told she could imagine a life beyond marriage? The tools for resistance existed in her society, but that doesn’t mean they existed in her world."
The drama establishes that she has at least access to that, even if her father didn't teach her.
1. There's the character os Songsawat who everybody knows. She's an actress, independent in her own right, also officially the mistress of a powerful man... but at the end of the day, still somebody who goes against tradition.
2. As pointed out by Diva70 earlier, there's Rachawadi who not only is the boss of the lounge but also somebody who holds gay marriages inside of it. Again I'm back to Diva70 comment because it's better written than mine but, Pin is not ill at ease with this place.
In fact I even wondered the first time Saenkaew went there how she could have brought him here, not knowing how he felt about the subject altogether... I mean rationally speaking, if he was a homophobe, he could have considered her having low moral standings, not even accounting for the fact that she's from a merchants' family and he is a noble.
But I disgress. My point is, she already knows there's other possibilities but she chooses not to... I get it, change is frightening. Often people prefer to stay in a situation that is familiar even if they don't like it, instead of getting to a better place but having to face a difficult journey ahead.
I know it first hand. Quit my civil servant's job 3 years ago to pursue my passion. A VERY well-paid job might I add, everybody thought I was crazy especially doing that at my age. Well, here we are 3 years later. Can't say they weren't right looking at my finances, savings almost all gone, still no light at the end of the tunnel... But I tried, I've got no regrets... for now. Bank account is almost empty, but mentally I'm still at a better place than when I used to do my former job.
Anyway I disgress.
My point is I don't entirely disagree with what you wrote... But there's one major thing when I just can't agree with you which is this:
"You’re free to hold her accountable. I do too. I just also hold the system accountable for producing someone so broken she can’t imagine another way."
For me it's not that "She can't imagine another way." It's more a matter of she doesn't want to, because she lacks the courage to do it.
And I could understand if she was alone... But that's not the case. She has a cousin who loves her, who she can still throw tantrums at. Being angry a couple of days was... fine I guess. But now to me, she's running out of excuses.
At the end of the day, Society does hold part of the blame, but people have their own agency.
When Pin Becomes the Villain: Love in the Moonlight, Patriarchy, and the Market of SadnessI’m exhausted by comments…
You know I would have partially agreed with your comment if the story had been set in the 19th century... But not in the 20th especially post WWII.
Society was already changing, she chose to go low. It's weird to me to read about a comment of women in the 1960s being "shackled by Society" when most of the changes and benefits we get these days came from the fight of women from that period or even earlier.
Seriously, women in Thailand got the right to vote in 1932 . Let's make a comparison with other "more developed country" shall we?
1. Pin is the typical example of why being a victim doesn't mean you won't ever become a tyrant. But self-reflection seems to be beyond her at this point.
2. She's not helpless in this situation. She's making everyone miserable because she wanted everything: the man, the money, the beautiful marriage. She wanted her fairytale, and she realized she won't be getting it. She could have been left miserable and alone in that situation but no she had a support system which she chose to get rid of.
Yes Saenkaew and Sasin tried to get rid of the marriage but it was never for her to stay trapped in her old life, it was also to prevent her to move from one prison to the other. She was unhappy in her father's life, now she chooses to be unhappy in her husband's life... Which again, is utterly stupid.
People change, and toxic marriage lead to increasing resentment. Who's to say the Prince won't become a cruel wife beater? The drama is being nice with Saenkaew because we need to root for him, but it could have gone that way. This could have been the story of a Prince who fought against fate, failed at it because of money hungry people and his wife, and ended up bitter and resentful, alcoholic and lashing at the world... especially at his wife.
In such situation, someone with a rational mind would calm down and help Sasin and Saenkaew to find a satisfying compromise. For instance, help with the marriage scheme with the lounge owner, in exchange for a good chunk of money to get her own freedom. Also Sasin would have stood by her so she wouldn't have been left alone anyway.
Though I hate the father, at least, he really has "History" on his side so to speak. Pin doesn't.
Again as Diva70 wrote, she had a choice. She chose that. Let her deal with the consequences.
For me your comment is akin to people excusing the Delulu Grandma because of her age. Feels to me that the members who are saying that are very young and never have met anybody 70 or older.
They've seen most on them on TV and imagine most people that age already have Alzeimer and are half dead... Which is just SO NOT the case. Of course, you do have people like that, but most are still young thank you very much, with a well rounded working mind. I find such comments insulting but I'm putting it on the case of"When I was young, I though people who were 50 were already walking with a cane."
I hope not. If they do then perhaps they’ll be reunited in another life like Korn & Intouch - Until We Meet…
Let's be clear... This is a "worst case scenario". I'd rather they both die and let all those who hurt them wallow in regret than having one survive blaming himself for what happened to the other.
Until we meet again had a "good ending" on both front. One was killed, the other committed suicide, the whole family was unhappy: Best revenge ever... And then they reunited in their second life, so even better.
But, I don't think reincarnation is part of the deal here, so let's just hope we do get that happy ending tomorrow.
Don't think that ! Be positive ! Believe in Happy End !! T.T
I am being positive you know:
1. If it's a double suicide, they win since all the rest of them are gonna be in utter misery for life.... Well probably not Pin's father... But honestly in spite of what happened in episode 11, I still think he's a lesser evil compared to the others. There's nothing worse than psychological torture in my opinion and Pin and Saenkaew's father are the champions.
2. If it's a happy ending... No matter how that happens of course I'll be satisfied.
THIS BEING SAID. I REALLY REALLY REALLY WANT to see Sasin and Saenkaew giving Pin the evil eyes.
So far they've been really kind to her in spite of everything she's done, they never looked at her with hate... It would be great if they could give her a taste of her own medecine. Let her know she did her best to get those looks of utter hate and that no matter what happens from now on, they both want nothing to do with her.
I want her to be as UNHAPPY as she's making the others... After all, it's what she wanted, so let her get what she wants 😈😈😈
From what I gathered in that scene, she didn't really want the wedding night per say. She "just" wanted…
This sadly is a stapple of Asian series overall... Though I've noticed these past few years it's been less the case in Korean and Chinese dramas (doesn't mean it still doesn't happen though).
Same here. Didn't watch it for years for exactly the same reasons.I'm on episode 5 though and I think lots of…
I'll tell you what I think once I get there... I don't really see how she can be badass having lived her whole life in a convent and being forbidden to interact with the outside world... That would be totally incoherent.
From what I gathered in that scene, she didn't really want the wedding night per say. She "just" wanted…
hmmm... That' s up for debate. Maybe she would have shown a bit more humanity who knows? Honestly she's too far gone for me to care. Even if she manages to get back some empathy... It's too late for me. I want her out of their lives altogether (though that won't happen obviously per Asian rules, unless they both die, she'll be forgiven... as usual.)
I just finished episode 11. The more I see of Pin, the more I hate her. It doesn't matter whether she did something…
From what I gathered in that scene, she didn't really want the wedding night per say. She "just" wanted Saenkaew to appear more alive and responsive like the way he was behaving before the marriage when he was still making an effort (because he still had some hope).
Now he's basically resigned himself to becoming an obedient puppet as long as it protects Sasin, he doesn't care.
Basically Pin and his father got what they wanted... BUUUUUUUUUUT they're not happy about it because they would like Saenkaew to smile and pretend he's ok. Except, he's dead inside and no longer cares.
Anyway, when she lashed out about asking him to bed her (though she didn't say it as straightforwardly as that), she was more asking for him to love her or at least pretend to... Something he's just no longer capable of.
Got to say, it's difficult to see Saenkaew like that BUT I'm happy about it 🤣🤣🤣 They got what they all wanted. He's obedient now. So... Are they happy ??? 😈😈😈
Watching this on ytube and they don't have the subs up yet and I almost picked my monitor up and threw it against…
Yeah we're both thinking about this specific scene right? Man... That was hard to watch. That's personally my breaking point with her character. I was hoping for some redemption until then, but after that? I no longer care. Whatever happens to her, I don't give a fudge.
Short summary for episode 11 with my rough understanding
Basically Papa Saen is about to kill Sasin and Saenkaew promises to get married if his father lets Sasin go (otherwise he's just gonna kill himself). Since Sasin is already very hurt, he's left unconscious. While he's recuperating, taken care of by his friends, the marriage proceeds and the whole family moves immediatly to Chiang Mai. It's only when Sasin wakes up that he realizes they all left the main house.
Meanwhile the Uncle has managed to barely survive the beating he got from Khamsu and his goons but still has managed to save the negatives of the pictures i.e they can be printed again.
Meanwhile at Chiang Mai, Saenkaew is a living zombie. He no longer bothers to pretend he's happy. He doesn't talk and just does whatever is asked of him. Still his attitude is bothering everyone (except delulu Grandma I guess though she seems to have picked up something) especially Pin.
There's this awful scene when Pin is asking him questions regarding some things ( couldn't understand sorry) and he keeps on answering " just do as you like", "I'll do what you want" and so on. So she ends up lashing out saying he doesn't give a fudge about her but he would do anything for Sasin or something along those lines adding that he should do his husband's duty then.
So... He takes off his shirt, and hugs her. As he's about to kiss her, she pushes him away, complaining one more time about WHY he doesn't like her. To which he retorts that she just has to explain what she wants, he'll do anything to keep her satisfied.
😤😤😤😤
Anyway, Pin's father looks for the Uncle who he finds... in a terrible state might I add. He wants the pictures, but the Uncle clings to them. No problem. Papa Pin has ZE SOLUTION.
He KILLS him.
I kid you not. Papa Pin kills Saenkaew 's Uncle.
Talk about a plot twist.
Turns out, Papa Pin wants to use the pictures to threaten Papa Saen and get more money out of him. Truly, these two should have married each other, they're a match made in heaven.
Anyway, Sasin goes to Chiang Mai to find Saenkaew and the episode ends with Saenkaew telling Sasin that he should forget him and start a new life ( sorry that's all I could understand without subs). Sasin keeps on calling him, but Saenkaew walks away crying, Pin who has seen this scene is also crying. Everybody is crying... Just wonderful.
By the way for the preview, nothing happy there. I wrote another comment below saying a little word about it if you're interested. But just so you know:
NOPE all that crying didn't change Pin's mind. She's still in ultimate bitch mode in the next episode. I don't care for her redemption now, she can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.
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"Pin grew up in a specific family, with specific conditioning, in a specific class position that valued reputation above all else. The women’s suffrage movement existed, yes. But did Pin’s father teach her about it? Did her social circle model resistance? Was she ever told she could imagine a life beyond marriage? The tools for resistance existed in her society, but that doesn’t mean they existed in her world."
The drama establishes that she has at least access to that, even if her father didn't teach her.
1. There's the character os Songsawat who everybody knows. She's an actress, independent in her own right, also officially the mistress of a powerful man... but at the end of the day, still somebody who goes against tradition.
2. As pointed out by Diva70 earlier, there's Rachawadi who not only is the boss of the lounge but also somebody who holds gay marriages inside of it. Again I'm back to Diva70 comment because it's better written than mine but, Pin is not ill at ease with this place.
In fact I even wondered the first time Saenkaew went there how she could have brought him here, not knowing how he felt about the subject altogether... I mean rationally speaking, if he was a homophobe, he could have considered her having low moral standings, not even accounting for the fact that she's from a merchants' family and he is a noble.
But I disgress. My point is, she already knows there's other possibilities but she chooses not to... I get it, change is frightening. Often people prefer to stay in a situation that is familiar even if they don't like it, instead of getting to a better place but having to face a difficult journey ahead.
I know it first hand. Quit my civil servant's job 3 years ago to pursue my passion. A VERY well-paid job might I add, everybody thought I was crazy especially doing that at my age. Well, here we are 3 years later.
Can't say they weren't right looking at my finances, savings almost all gone, still no light at the end of the tunnel... But I tried, I've got no regrets... for now. Bank account is almost empty, but mentally I'm still at a better place than when I used to do my former job.
Anyway I disgress.
My point is I don't entirely disagree with what you wrote... But there's one major thing when I just can't agree with you which is this:
"You’re free to hold her accountable. I do too. I just also hold the system accountable for producing someone so broken she can’t imagine another way."
For me it's not that "She can't imagine another way." It's more a matter of she doesn't want to, because she lacks the courage to do it.
And I could understand if she was alone... But that's not the case. She has a cousin who loves her, who she can still throw tantrums at. Being angry a couple of days was... fine I guess. But now to me, she's running out of excuses.
At the end of the day, Society does hold part of the blame, but people have their own agency.
Society was already changing, she chose to go low. It's weird to me to read about a comment of women in the 1960s being "shackled by Society" when most of the changes and benefits we get these days came from the fight of women from that period or even earlier.
Seriously, women in Thailand got the right to vote in 1932 . Let's make a comparison with other "more developed country" shall we?
1. Pin is the typical example of why being a victim doesn't mean you won't ever become a tyrant. But self-reflection seems to be beyond her at this point.
2. She's not helpless in this situation. She's making everyone miserable because she wanted everything: the man, the money, the beautiful marriage. She wanted her fairytale, and she realized she won't be getting it. She could have been left miserable and alone in that situation but no she had a support system which she chose to get rid of.
Yes Saenkaew and Sasin tried to get rid of the marriage but it was never for her to stay trapped in her old life, it was also to prevent her to move from one prison to the other. She was unhappy in her father's life, now she chooses to be unhappy in her husband's life... Which again, is utterly stupid.
People change, and toxic marriage lead to increasing resentment. Who's to say the Prince won't become a cruel wife beater? The drama is being nice with Saenkaew because we need to root for him, but it could have gone that way. This could have been the story of a Prince who fought against fate, failed at it because of money hungry people and his wife, and ended up bitter and resentful, alcoholic and lashing at the world... especially at his wife.
In such situation, someone with a rational mind would calm down and help Sasin and Saenkaew to find a satisfying compromise. For instance, help with the marriage scheme with the lounge owner, in exchange for a good chunk of money to get her own freedom. Also Sasin would have stood by her so she wouldn't have been left alone anyway.
Though I hate the father, at least, he really has "History" on his side so to speak. Pin doesn't.
Again as Diva70 wrote, she had a choice. She chose that. Let her deal with the consequences.
For me your comment is akin to people excusing the Delulu Grandma because of her age. Feels to me that the members who are saying that are very young and never have met anybody 70 or older.
They've seen most on them on TV and imagine most people that age already have Alzeimer and are half dead... Which is just SO NOT the case.
Of course, you do have people like that, but most are still young thank you very much, with a well rounded working mind. I find such comments insulting but I'm putting it on the case of"When I was young, I though people who were 50 were already walking with a cane."
Until we meet again had a "good ending" on both front.
One was killed, the other committed suicide, the whole family was unhappy: Best revenge ever... And then they reunited in their second life, so even better.
But, I don't think reincarnation is part of the deal here, so let's just hope we do get that happy ending tomorrow.
Though I suspect I'm gonna fail miserably... I've been watching it live every week since episode 3.
I'm a lost cause 😭😭😭
Still crossing my fingers Papa Saen and Pin don't get any forgiveness. As far as I'm concerned, they're both too far gone to deserve it.
1. If it's a double suicide, they win since all the rest of them are gonna be in utter misery for life.... Well probably not Pin's father... But honestly in spite of what happened in episode 11, I still think he's a lesser evil compared to the others. There's nothing worse than psychological torture in my opinion and Pin and Saenkaew's father are the champions.
2. If it's a happy ending... No matter how that happens of course I'll be satisfied.
THIS BEING SAID. I REALLY REALLY REALLY WANT to see Sasin and Saenkaew giving Pin the evil eyes.
So far they've been really kind to her in spite of everything she's done, they never looked at her with hate... It would be great if they could give her a taste of her own medecine. Let her know she did her best to get those looks of utter hate and that no matter what happens from now on, they both want nothing to do with her.
I want her to be as UNHAPPY as she's making the others... After all, it's what she wanted, so let her get what she wants 😈😈😈
Now he's basically resigned himself to becoming an obedient puppet as long as it protects Sasin, he doesn't care.
Basically Pin and his father got what they wanted... BUUUUUUUUUUT they're not happy about it because they would like Saenkaew to smile and pretend he's ok. Except, he's dead inside and no longer cares.
Anyway, when she lashed out about asking him to bed her (though she didn't say it as straightforwardly as that), she was more asking for him to love her or at least pretend to... Something he's just no longer capable of.
Got to say, it's difficult to see Saenkaew like that BUT I'm happy about it 🤣🤣🤣
They got what they all wanted. He's obedient now. So... Are they happy ??? 😈😈😈
It's only when Sasin wakes up that he realizes they all left the main house.
Meanwhile the Uncle has managed to barely survive the beating he got from Khamsu and his goons but still has managed to save the negatives of the pictures i.e they can be printed again.
Meanwhile at Chiang Mai, Saenkaew is a living zombie. He no longer bothers to pretend he's happy. He doesn't talk and just does whatever is asked of him. Still his attitude is bothering everyone (except delulu Grandma I guess though she seems to have picked up something) especially Pin.
There's this awful scene when Pin is asking him questions regarding some things ( couldn't understand sorry) and he keeps on answering " just do as you like", "I'll do what you want" and so on. So she ends up lashing out saying he doesn't give a fudge about her but he would do anything for Sasin or something along those lines adding that he should do his husband's duty then.
So... He takes off his shirt, and hugs her. As he's about to kiss her, she pushes him away, complaining one more time about WHY he doesn't like her. To which he retorts that she just has to explain what she wants, he'll do anything to keep her satisfied.
😤😤😤😤
Anyway, Pin's father looks for the Uncle who he finds... in a terrible state might I add. He wants the pictures, but the Uncle clings to them. No problem. Papa Pin has ZE SOLUTION.
He KILLS him.
I kid you not. Papa Pin kills Saenkaew 's Uncle.
Talk about a plot twist.
Turns out, Papa Pin wants to use the pictures to threaten Papa Saen and get more money out of him.
Truly, these two should have married each other, they're a match made in heaven.
Anyway, Sasin goes to Chiang Mai to find Saenkaew and the episode ends with Saenkaew telling Sasin that he should forget him and start a new life ( sorry that's all I could understand without subs). Sasin keeps on calling him, but Saenkaew walks away crying, Pin who has seen this scene is also crying. Everybody is crying... Just wonderful.
By the way for the preview, nothing happy there. I wrote another comment below saying a little word about it if you're interested. But just so you know:
NOPE all that crying didn't change Pin's mind. She's still in ultimate bitch mode in the next episode.
I don't care for her redemption now, she can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.