About the cliché, can you mention one kdrama that had the same plot? I cant think of any even tho i watch a lot…
Here are some of the clichés.
1. Love triangle where one person clearly has no chance because the other two like each other but tries to get involved anyway. (Eg:- Lonely Enough to Love, Backstreet Rookie, Cinderella and the Four Knights, The King: Eternal Monarch etc)
2. Best friends/brothers with a sturdy relationship end up fighting because of a girl. (Eg:- Boys Over Flowers, Extraordinary You, Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo, To All The Boys Who Loved Me etc)
3. A rags to riches story where an antagonist tries to stop the hero from succeeding just because of some silly reason connected to pride. (eg:- Itaewon Class, My Strange Hero, Lawless Lawyer, Hot Stove League, Into the Ring etc)
4. The girl's relationship with the boy somehow having a negative aspect to his success and therefore they are told to hide it. (Eg:- Do You Like Brahms?, Full House, Love in the Moonlight, and the inverse, Encounter etc. )
5. The parent of the rich kid dictating who her children can date/marry. (Eg:- Boys Over Flowers, Cheese in the Trap, The Heirs, Cinderella and the Four Knights etc)
I know that kdramas are, by definition, cliché, and that is partly why we love them, but for the writing style in this show, I would have much preferred a more realistic take on things. Eg:- No love triangle but friendship based storytelling, the conflicts HJ suffers are not because of meddlesome people like his ex-girlfriend and his former agent, but rather actual problems celebrities suffer from trolls, stalkers, depression etc. This is the kind of show where you don't need a badly written villain. It would have been so much better if we watched HJ and HH try to succeed in this business only. The rest of the storylines are too forced, predictable and boring.
I can't quite put my finger on what is wrong with this drama. I think it's a combination of a few things.
1. Forced writing - It's a writing style that is trying too hard to be cool and woke. It's the type of writing where they tell you how the characters feel rather than show it, which makes the dialogue seem shallow and forced.
2. It's cliché - Great cast, great production, but the storyline is something we have seen a million times. There is nothing new or unique about the story.
3. - Failing Goals - The show is trying so hard to be relevant to young people, but it's no Itaewon Class. There's quite a few time jumps so we don't spend enough time with characters as they struggle. The story is fast forwarded again and again so we, as the audience, don't connect with any of the characters.
The show seems to me like an empty shell. But I keep watching it, hoping it will get better.
Hwan's dad is toxic too,selfish just like his wife. No wonder he never asks for a divorce
Poor Hwan. He's got the worst of it. I think if they all just left and lived their lives without anyone else from the family they would be happier. Not Jin and his mother though, they just crave conflict.
Hwan's dad is toxic too,selfish just like his wife. No wonder he never asks for a divorce
I definitely see your point. Maybe it's because I come from an Asian household, but I understand why Hwan's dad did what he did.
Actually, I would have seen it as a toxic move if he had told Hwan the truth while Hwan was still a child. No parent tells a child about a bad thing their sibling did to them. That would only break their relationship and cause a rift in the family. Instead, he did what he thought was best as a parent, keep it from Hwan so that Hwan wouldn't hate his brother. And that worked. Hwan loved Jin. - Even Jin says that him coming clean made him feel better but Hwan worse. Jin was selfish and portrayed toxic behaviour by telling him. Especially because he did so for selfish reasons.
As for not wondering how Hwan felt the whole time, that makes sense to me too. Jin was clearly the problem child; reckless, brash, selfish, while Hwan was quiet, strong and clearly the caregiver. I've seen this in real life. Where one sibling keeps the peace between the whole family. It's never placed on them, but they take up the mantle and it becomes exhausting as more years pass. It's a failing in parents because they are human. They focus on the problem child, ignoring the well behaved child. Just like adults will focus on the problematic friend and never ask the friend who appears to have it completely together, how they are doing. Children should never be put in a position to have to parent their parents, but in this case, Jin was MIA and so was the wife. Hwan had no choice but to bear the burden alone due to the two selfish characters leaving him alone to look after the depressed patient. So I don't think Hwan's dad was toxic in this regard, but Hwan's mother. Hwan's dad was clearly suffering from depression, so he wouldn't have been in the right mentality to be a parent. He needed care at that time and Hwan stepped up, and his father, after he went through it, and got better, appreciated his son's big heart.
To me, for Hwan's dad to be toxic, he should have utilised his injury in forcing Hwan to look after him. But he didn't. He was preoccupied with his suffering and tried to take his own life. Hwan had to carry the burden alone. In reality it should have been the wife and sons who looked after him together. Then the burden wouldn't have been such a burden.
When it comes to Jin and his wife, who are both dominant personalities, Hwan's dad is not the type to fight them on anything. He lets them do what they want to do because he is a weak personality who doesn't crave conflict or drama like his wife and older son does. He avoids conflict, which to me is not toxic, but a weak personality.
I guess in my view, he's the victim of the actions done by two selfish people, and because he's a doormat, he lets them kick him around over and over. Like a beaten puppy he goes back to them and lets them dictate his life. To me, he's not toxic, but a weak man with no backbone.
Okay, I am in a dilemma now. I wanted to watch the show for Ji Soo but the comments made me reluctant to. Should…
It depends on your taste. There's a lot of self-pity and weak characters (selfish first, will improve never), and people acting like idiots. It's basically a Makjang.
Hwan's dad is toxic too,selfish just like his wife. No wonder he never asks for a divorce
I disagree. I think it's clear that Hwan's mother is the real toxic person in the relationship. She doesn't want a divorce but she wants to live her own life, and she can do so because her husband will do whatever she wants. He's clearly a victim in a toxic relationship. If she wants a divorce, he'll give her a divorce. After all, he asked her for a divorce and she refused, calling him crazy. She portrays typical abusive behaviour and she gaslights him and the family anytime she wants something.
A lot of people saying that the drama is bad because the relationship is not healthier makes me questioning myself…
Exactly. It shows a descent into toxicity. I actually think the drama is kind of brilliant in portraying the self-made excuses people make to justify their behaviour.
Ye Ji and Hwan are finally showing some character growth while everyone else in their lives (except for Hwan's Dad) is as toxic as ever... Just like in real life. The toxic people never change.
I wonder why it's considered a bad thing to have your work recommended to potential interested parties...? I feel like the writer is just trying to create drama where there is none.
Which toxic relationship do you mean? There are too many to count.
Haha. Well... We're actually 12 episodes in (2 episodes haven't aired), and it's going strong. Nothing has changed from the beginning except that Jin is super toxic now (eg:- apparently he can do whatever he wants but she can't because he knows what's best for both of them). And Hwan is pretending to move on but clearly isn't. I seriously think that this is going to end with her being alone, and I think that's how it should be. 4 episodes more and I have no idea how they are going to conclude it.
1. Love triangle where one person clearly has no chance because the other two like each other but tries to get involved anyway. (Eg:- Lonely Enough to Love, Backstreet Rookie, Cinderella and the Four Knights, The King: Eternal Monarch etc)
2. Best friends/brothers with a sturdy relationship end up fighting because of a girl. (Eg:- Boys Over Flowers, Extraordinary You, Moon Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo, To All The Boys Who Loved Me etc)
3. A rags to riches story where an antagonist tries to stop the hero from succeeding just because of some silly reason connected to pride. (eg:- Itaewon Class, My Strange Hero, Lawless Lawyer, Hot Stove League, Into the Ring etc)
4. The girl's relationship with the boy somehow having a negative aspect to his success and therefore they are told to hide it. (Eg:- Do You Like Brahms?, Full House, Love in the Moonlight, and the inverse, Encounter etc. )
5. The parent of the rich kid dictating who her children can date/marry. (Eg:- Boys Over Flowers, Cheese in the Trap, The Heirs, Cinderella and the Four Knights etc)
I know that kdramas are, by definition, cliché, and that is partly why we love them, but for the writing style in this show, I would have much preferred a more realistic take on things. Eg:- No love triangle but friendship based storytelling, the conflicts HJ suffers are not because of meddlesome people like his ex-girlfriend and his former agent, but rather actual problems celebrities suffer from trolls, stalkers, depression etc. This is the kind of show where you don't need a badly written villain. It would have been so much better if we watched HJ and HH try to succeed in this business only. The rest of the storylines are too forced, predictable and boring.
1. Forced writing - It's a writing style that is trying too hard to be cool and woke. It's the type of writing where they tell you how the characters feel rather than show it, which makes the dialogue seem shallow and forced.
2. It's cliché - Great cast, great production, but the storyline is something we have seen a million times. There is nothing new or unique about the story.
3. - Failing Goals - The show is trying so hard to be relevant to young people, but it's no Itaewon Class. There's quite a few time jumps so we don't spend enough time with characters as they struggle. The story is fast forwarded again and again so we, as the audience, don't connect with any of the characters.
The show seems to me like an empty shell. But I keep watching it, hoping it will get better.
Actually, I would have seen it as a toxic move if he had told Hwan the truth while Hwan was still a child. No parent tells a child about a bad thing their sibling did to them. That would only break their relationship and cause a rift in the family. Instead, he did what he thought was best as a parent, keep it from Hwan so that Hwan wouldn't hate his brother. And that worked. Hwan loved Jin. - Even Jin says that him coming clean made him feel better but Hwan worse. Jin was selfish and portrayed toxic behaviour by telling him. Especially because he did so for selfish reasons.
As for not wondering how Hwan felt the whole time, that makes sense to me too. Jin was clearly the problem child; reckless, brash, selfish, while Hwan was quiet, strong and clearly the caregiver. I've seen this in real life. Where one sibling keeps the peace between the whole family. It's never placed on them, but they take up the mantle and it becomes exhausting as more years pass. It's a failing in parents because they are human. They focus on the problem child, ignoring the well behaved child. Just like adults will focus on the problematic friend and never ask the friend who appears to have it completely together, how they are doing. Children should never be put in a position to have to parent their parents, but in this case, Jin was MIA and so was the wife. Hwan had no choice but to bear the burden alone due to the two selfish characters leaving him alone to look after the depressed patient. So I don't think Hwan's dad was toxic in this regard, but Hwan's mother. Hwan's dad was clearly suffering from depression, so he wouldn't have been in the right mentality to be a parent. He needed care at that time and Hwan stepped up, and his father, after he went through it, and got better, appreciated his son's big heart.
To me, for Hwan's dad to be toxic, he should have utilised his injury in forcing Hwan to look after him. But he didn't. He was preoccupied with his suffering and tried to take his own life. Hwan had to carry the burden alone. In reality it should have been the wife and sons who looked after him together. Then the burden wouldn't have been such a burden.
When it comes to Jin and his wife, who are both dominant personalities, Hwan's dad is not the type to fight them on anything. He lets them do what they want to do because he is a weak personality who doesn't crave conflict or drama like his wife and older son does. He avoids conflict, which to me is not toxic, but a weak personality.
I guess in my view, he's the victim of the actions done by two selfish people, and because he's a doormat, he lets them kick him around over and over. Like a beaten puppy he goes back to them and lets them dictate his life. To me, he's not toxic, but a weak man with no backbone.