Platinum Fox

I see your point. He is like that at first, but when he "falls" for her, he tries to change. Liu Chang is not a villain like his parents. He is a naive, gullible, in need of a redemptive arc character. He will get his redemptive arc, and we will need to wait and see what he does with his chance to change the situation.

Yes, when he says he will protect her, that is definitely empty talk as he can't even protect himself. This is what makes him different than the Flower Envoy.

MIkaM, never once have I said that this drama is about pedophiles or grooming. Some posters have said that, but that is not me. I have repeatedly argued that this drama is trying to change the consent law to 16 (most countries have this law) which has not happened. The beauty of this drama is that it is trying to show why children 14-15 should be protected. There is a massive difference between a 14 year old and a 19 year old (in height and maturity level). When she turns 17, that is a different story. She has now caught up to him in height, but not in maturity. It is why they show her reading The End of Eternity, and she says, "I know the words, but I don't know what they mean." This is why Sang Zhi talks like a child throughout most of the drama. You are right, DJX is a green flag male. He does keep it in his pants, but when she is 17 and he is 22, they could carry on a sexual relationship and it wouldn't be rape. My question to you is when is the right age for girls to experience physical intimacy? This is a question that this drama asks. The drama says 19, but we know had DJX not been a green flag male, she would have consented at 17 (her fox picture).

MikaM, please do not place me in the category of those who consider this a pedophile love story. For me, it is far from that. In fact it is the exact opposite.

Thank you for the discussion.

That's the problem with two different people playing the same role. A good actor should be able to capture the essence of the character that the other person played and then make the character their own. For instance, I knew immediately who Qian Fei was even though it was a different person playing the role. The actor who is playing Qian Fei captured the essence of the character from the one in Hidden Love. Now he can take and make the character his own.

Even though Victor Ma's interpretation of the character is comedic, there is an essence of bravado about him that is lacking in BJT's character interpretation. Sang Yan even when he is melancholy is quite comedic and it should be though his humor that heals Yi Fan. For me, BJT's Sang Yan is just DJX all over again which is sad, because I think the humorous Sang Yan would have been better in helping Yi Fan heal from her trauma.

Mika M, you're right, the story is mainly about her feelings and how she never thinks he will love her, but that is because of how she perceives things. Perceptions for the audience as well as the characters drive the drama. For example, when they are at field day, she falls while jumping over the high jump bar. After fighting with her brother, DJX gives her a piggy back ride to the nurse's station. Later, when Sang Yan gives her a piggy back ride to the car to take her to the hospital, another girl falls and DJX goes to help the girl. Sang Zhi's perception is that she is nothing special to DJX because he is kind to everyone. What she totally misses is the fact that he willing gave her a piggy back ride, whereas with the other girl he just lent her his arm and walked slowly with her. Something a normal human being would have done. Giving a piggy back ride is something special. It is often used as an intimate gesture between boyfriend and girlfriend in romance dramas. SZ doesn't realize at the time that DJX does treat her special because he doesn't do that with other girls and she firmly believes that DJX only sees her as his little sister (which is reinforced at graduation as he doesn't know what else to call her).

The title Hidden Love does not just refer to her love for him, but also refers to DJX and SZ keeping their love hidden from her parents and Sang Yan, especially Sang Yan. Sang Yan also has a hidden love which we find out about in The First Frost. In addition, DJX's love for her is hidden from her because she doesn't believe he will ever love her back. On that winter night, DJX realizes he loves her as well and can now tell her. In episode 24, he admits that he liked her for more than just a sister when she was in high school (love is hidden from himself). Think about all the things about her that DJX keeps from Sang Yan, Why would he do that, what is in it for him?

You're also right. If the writers had had a character say, "The age of consent law is wrong it needs to be changed to 16." Yes, it probably would have been flagged, and maybe that is why the first director backed out. Instead we got a beautiful love story with a green flag male, that displays a different way of looking at the age of consent law. You can thank The End of Eternity for that.

Thank you for the discussion.

The actress who played 14-year-old Sang Zhi was actually 11 at the time of filming. This was intentional as they needed the actress for her height to show how much Sang Zhi had "grown up" during the 3 year temporal node. Her height was also needed for the scene in the doorway when they first met and the dad references that continue throughout the drama.

Fun fact: the same actress played a younger version of Zhao Lu Si's characters in Who Rules the World and The Story of Pearl Girl.

Liu Chang has more redeeming qualities about him. He does not agree with his parents on the marriage to the princess or to Mu Dan for that fact. He wants to make a name for himself using his own merits. He helps Mu Dan escape. There is more, but you aren't there yet.

For me, Liu Chang is a misunderstood "villain".

Yes, and once he finds out all hell breaks loose.

This is the trouble when switching actors for a certain role. A good actor can pick up the essence of the previous person who played the role, but also make the role his/her own. For instance, in episode two, the actor who plays Qian Fei does an excellent job of keeping the bubbly Qian Fei. You can instantly tell that he was Qian Fei. The actor captured the essence of Qian Fei's character from Hidden Love. Now that the actor has done that, going forward, he can make the role his own.

As for Sang Yan's character, presently, we have a darker, broodier side to him which we did see in HL when he realizes DJX and Sang Zhi are dating. It's why he punches DJX. It's also why he is extremely concerned about Sang Zhi when she wants to meet the "online" guy when she is 17. What we are missing is his bravado facade as he is not as confident when he is around Yi Fan due to their past history. This drama seems to be exploring the not so confident Sang Yan which is why posters have said that this is not the character portrayed in Hidden Love.

With that being said, BJT pulls off being extremely handsome, but has yet to capture the true essence of Sang Yan's character. Maybe once they get together this will change, but something tells me it won't.

I am glad you and others are enjoying it.

I have only watched the first episode of The First Frost, and Sang Yan's personality and mannerisms are definitely different. But also the situation is different. We now understand what he was "hiding" in Hidden Love. The title Hidden Love relates to not just Sang Zhi and DJX, but also to Sang Yan. We are now getting his story. This story is much darker than Hidden Love, so his personality should be darker and broodier.

As for his comedic side, the line, "He's your real brother," was meant to be funny, but it really didn't come off that way. We can only chalk it up to him being concerned about Yi Fan after seeing her again as we do not know why they split up in the first place. This is just first impression.

Don't know where you are in the drama, but she has made it clear she only married into the family for the medicine the Liu family could provide for the family. I will not spoil any more as she is happy with her existence there until she hears some disturbing news.

Yes, Liu Chang is annoying, but he is way better than his parents who are leeches.

Episode 4

There is no comparison between Liu Chang and CPP when it comes to intelligence. However, with Joy of Life we have seen a change in how main characters are viewed. Main characters (except for women) can now have physical disabilities. Remember this entire drama is centered around both male and female characters breaking traditions, customs, rules, and conventions. So Liu Chang, being the second male lead, what would be so wrong with him being a high-ranking official with a disability? We already know that he is capable with his water plan even though it never came into fruition.

As for Mu Dan and Liu Chang, with Mu Dan's personality and the way LC is now, no, Mu Dan would never get back with him. Their personalities are too different. Mu Dan is strong and overcomes every obstacle that comes her way with the support of her friends and the Floral Envoy. Liu Chang wallows in self pity and has no one to support his efforts (not even the princess). He is really seeing what it means to have no one (just like Mu Dan when she was married to him).

Now we just have to wait to see how they write his character, but as you said, he is already on the revenge path. It is what typically happens with second male leads.

Yes, I do believe he could be a good official. How does one become a good official, by experiencing what the common people go through on a daily basis. You can't understand something until you have gone through it yourself. He is a scholar who has not experienced the world yet and the world of politics. There are some very telling scenes in his arc that he is on his way.

Joy of Life changed the way we view people with disabilities (especially men) in dramas. Chen Ping Ping is the head of a powerful governmental agency. Being in a wheel chair has not hinder this. What a way to go against rules and traditions, place a person with a disability in a place of power. With what both the men want to do, who needs legs? Their brains still work.

This drama is challenging the notion that traditions, rules, conventions, and customs need to be changed when they no longer work. Now do the drama writers have the guts to go against drama conventions? I don't think so, viewers would stop watching if Liu Chang actually ended up Mu Dan.

Many posters have said that he fell for her on that snowy night, but that is not true. He fell for her when she was 17 and at the car, but the brother shot him down in letting DJX date her. Perception is what drives this drama for the audience as well as the characters. Can love be hidden from yourself? This drama is aptly named because not only does it refer to her secret love for him, but his secret love for her when he begins to chase her at 17. For me, the first snow fall is when he finally realizes and can admit he is in love with her. Remember it does not take them too long after that to "play house" and act like a married couple. Also, Sang Yan has a secret love as well.

It is why you need to read The End of Eternity (TEE) and not just the novel Hidden Love. TEE will explain why she speaks in a childish voice throughout most of the drama, the five year age gap, and many concepts and themes found in the drama.

You and others have said the same thing, and that is okay as that is your perception of their relationship when she is 14 and he is 19. The writers wanted you to be uncomfortable with that age gap as the maturity of a 14 year old is very different than that of a 19 year old. However, Chinese law says it is okay. People are trying to get it changed to 16, but no luck. But you are bashing a drama that is trying to combat the very thing that you are bashing it for.

I also did old school slow watching and got to 1/2 way through episode 14. By that time I didn't care about any of the characters as the story made no sense as to why the bride needed to be there in the first place. Fantasy is about redemption and forgiveness. The one who needed to pull the sword out was the grim reaper (the person who actually caused the whole mess to begin with). I understand what you are saying about Han and Jeong, but that only relates to the relationship between the three original characters at the original killing site. No bride is needed.

You can definitely see it that way and his actions are not shady that is what makes him a green flag guy. He waits until she is in college to have a sexual relationship with her, but he falls for her at the car when she is 17 and chases after her when she is 17 making him a dog (the car scene). Perception is what drives this drama from the characters to the audience.

Most viewers do not understand that this drama starts out as a social commentary on the age of consent in China which is 14. It is why viewers should be reading The End of Eternity (TEE) rather than the novel Hidden Love. The screenwriter(s) structured this drama on many concepts found in TEE. It explains why Sang Zhi speaks like a child and acts like child throughout most of the drama (which many viewers think that she is trying to be cute). It explains why people can view the scenes when they are 17 and 22 as either what a brother would do for his sister or what a boyfriend would do for his girlfriend. Romance does not have to be about sex, kissing, or even hand holding. It could be about wanting to be in the same room as each other, getting each other gifts, a piggy back ride, or taking a bike ride through the park. This drama is filled with easter eggs that enhance the story.

Thanks for the discussion.

Yes, and what a great disguise for him to get the revenge on the person who started this whole mess, Prince Ning.

I understand, but I also understand why he did what he did, and I think Mu Dan understood as well. Matter of fact they even talk about it in one scene. She even forgave him. She tells him that the only reason he thinks he loves her is that she is living his dream to be free and to make his own choices. So I believe she understood the reason for the attempted rape.

It is why his journey to becoming a good official is going the way it is. He needs to understand what it means to not have any type of protection. and start from the ground up.

Yes, he is a scholar. He solves problems with his intelligence, not his brawn (except for when he tried to rape her). That's why for me if there was no dog mentioned then it just makes him another second male lead villain.

For me, if the writers really want to break with conventions, traditions, and rules, Mu Dan's character should do one of two things: get a divorce and live out her life in Fragrance Garden and remain an old maid or remarry the second male lead after he finishes going through his redemptive arc and becomes a high-ranking official. Liu Chang will get the girl. Li Xian will die as a corrupt official. Let Prince Ning, the princess, and the parents get what they deserve: to watch Liu Chang become a high-ranking official while they go off into exile. jmo

But in drama land we know none of that will happen.

Thanks for the discussion.