Other viewers have commented on the two things you have discussed in your first paragraph. First, having one actor…
This drama is a social commentary on the age of consent law in China which is 14 with no restrictions. The people of China are trying to get it changed to 16 with no luck. If you can't change a law, change the people's mindset about the law. Throughout the drama, it asks the question, when is the right time for young people (boy or girl) to start their sexual journey? This is why they have a guy her age from the very beginning of the drama. However, Sang Zhi chose someone older which comes with its own set a problems: height difference and maturity level when she is 14 and maturity level when she is 17.
This is why it is important to have Sang Zhi small for her age look like a child when she is 14. Zhao Lu Si could not have "grown in height" during the first temporal node. Thus they needed the smaller actress to stress that 14 year olds are still children (change the mindset of the people).
When she is 17, that is an entirely different ball game. She has now grown up to around his height. He no longer looks like her dad. However, she is unable to understand the novel DJX is reading, The End of Eternity, by Isaac Asimov. She is now grown up physically but is still not at the same maturity level as him. She is by law technically still a child. She is not the age of majority (able to handle business matters) or of marriageable age (20 for females) when she becomes a full adult. Yet, at the ages of 14, 17, and 19 she is of the age of consent.
Have you read the novel The End of Eternity? It is the novel shown several times during the first two episodes. The drama follows that novel almost to a T, but uses the Chinese novel of Hidden Love as its source material. The End of Eternity is a social commentary on the use of nuclear energy but does not come right out and say it. You should read The End of Eternity, and you will better understand why everyone gets that uncomfortable feeling at the beginning of the drama.
Thank you for the discussion. Happy drama watching.
7.0/10my thoughts on this, overall:● This wasn't necessarily bad but it's definitely overrated, a 9.0/10 average…
Other viewers have commented on the two things you have discussed in your first paragraph. First, having one actor for DJX was intentional and spot on. During most of the drama he is a full blown adult. The only time he could be considered a child (socially) is when he is 19 and is not of marriageable age (22 for males). Otherwise, he is considered an adult by Chinese law.
On the other hand, throughout the drama Sang Zhi is considered a child (socially) until the very last episode when she turns 20 (marriageable age for females). Thus why she speaks like a child and acts like a child throughout most of the drama (including when she is 19). That childish voice is done for other reasons throughout the drama as well, but viewers do not understand the reasons and chalk it up to her just trying to be cute (entertainment).
The other reasons have to do with why two actresses had to play Sang Zhi when she was 14 and 17. She was sickly as a child and is underdeveloped for her age. When Sang Zhi meets DJX the first time at 14 there is a line in the doorway scene where she says, "I will grow up (meaning I will get taller physically)." One actress can't "grow in height" between 14 and 17. Thus why they needed two actresses, one short and one tall to play Sang Zhi at these ages. During the first temporal node from 14-17, Sang Zhi grows in height, but she is still a child emotionally and intellectually compared to DJX.
For me, this was a very carefully done drama from the casting to the writing. They left nothing to chance. jmo
Also, Victor Ma stated in an interview that he felt he could not pull off a romantic Sang Yan, but he really pulled off the broody, false bravado, comedic Sang Yan quite well. Loved him as well.
It has taken me awhile, but I finally get the ending of this drama. Viewers have complained about two things, the ending and the lack of showing the marquis in all his military glory. If the drama had been about the "what if" ending, we would have seen the marquis' rise to power, not a story about Fan Chang Yu. She would have been shoved into the shadows like all women's stories throughout history. jmo
This was recommended to me by a friend. Her other recommendations had me expecting something very different than what was presented. However, I loved this drama, and since I am not expecting a second season, the ending seemed very appropriate for the purpose of the drama. I didn't feel like I missed anything with this beautiful love story.
Throughout this drama I was reminded of Moon River and The Forbidden Marriage which I watched before this one. The story really delved into the lives of these girls whose goal it was to become queen. I do have to ask was it true that the girls who made it to the top, but were not chosen to be queen, do they really have to remain maidens because they were considered the king's women even if they didn't become concubines? This seems a little harsh. No wonder parents didn't want their daughters to be in the selection process.
Despite that question, I loved the drama and would recommend it to anyone who like historical dramas.
That’s a good perspective and I agree that the drama was FCY’s story more than the Marquis's.. That part is…
Yes, I think people who read the novels first have different expectations of an adaptation, than those of us who haven't read it.
For me, when he fights his uncle and Qi Min it showed his fierceness and "glory". When he stood up to his uncle and took the 108 lashes, it showed his fierceness to protect and honor her. Sometimes being humble is fierce.
What I got from the drama with his character is showing men how to be loving and supportive of their wives endeavors. Fierceness doesn't always need to be shown on a battlefield. He was fierce in other ways. jmo
She is only illiterate when she is reading the classics. She is very good with numbers and building things and…
The drama speaks to the different types of intelligence. She is a kinetic and show me kinda gal. But as far as reading Chinese characters, you are right she is illiterate. You mainly read Chinese characters in the classics. Remember her brothers give her some scrolls that the first brother made for second brother to learn how to read and they had a great many diagrams on them. Lou Yao gives her "sex" books with pictures in them.
Also, the grandmother can't read either, so she wouldn't be much of a teacher. In addition, even though mom is the scholar in the family, she doesn't seem to sit down with SS either and do what I would call teach her. It seems they read a series of books to learn how to read and Aunt Ge did show her these books. However, Aunt Ge left it up to Shao Shang to teach herself how to read. Shao Shang, not being interested in reading, remained illiterate in the classics.
There is an argument going on in the drama about education. What does it truly mean to be illiterate. Not everyone learns in the same way and also does everyone really need to know the classics? How useful is knowing the classics in a world that needs houses, food, clothing, and basic necessities. This is why SS and Yuan Shen will never work as a couple as he is literate in book learning, but not practical, survival type things. We need doctors and lawyers in the world, but we also need people who can build houses. Whose job is more important in society?
For me, this drama is one of the most intelligently written dramas I have watched as it uses the three types of persuasion to get across its message about numerous Chinese societal issues teen marriage, nepotism, favoritism, education, equality vs. equity, disciplining your children, etc.
I am just on ep 13. Wasn't FL almost illiterate ? she can only read few characters. But how is she suddenly checking…
She is only illiterate when she is reading the classics. She is very good with numbers and building things and reads military and construction manuals as they have a lot of diagrams in them.
Actually, I have to disagree. The story is not about them as a couple or the general's story (his is a side story…
You're right, they could have made the ML anything and they did from the very beginning. From the very beginning his character was one of behind the scenes support. His role in her household in the first nine episodes tells you that his character is essentially going to be a foil for her character. Women's and men's roles will be reversed. No longer will she be just a housewife hidden in the shadow of her husband. She will be the provider, protector, and dominant character of the drama.
When she kills the two main generals, this is symbolic to women conquering their two biggest hurdles in life: to be recognized as human beings and to be recognized for their own merits.
The first part of the drama is paying homage to Empress Wu who became queen of China. She reigned over the land in no one's shadow. Fan Chang Yu becomes "queen" of the village. When she becomes a general, the writers are paying homage to Mulan who switched places with her dad and became a general through her own merits. The end arc pays homage to business woman Zhou Ying who changed the way women were looked upon in business during the Qing dynasty.
Because of the above, ZLS' fight scenes are appropriate to the drama as they relate to him alone (the uncle). His fierceness is shown through this fight scene. We don't need anymore to show his fierceness. And ZLS is on screen more than what it seems.
Hope this helps. Thank you for the discussion and happy drama watching.
Do you want modern or historical? Stay with Me is a modern adaption. However, I will warn you that Stay with Me…
Glad you enjoyed The Untamed. I couldn't get past the amateur acting, poor storytelling, and the portrayal of women.
Since I don't know how far you got in this drama, that flirting around is there for a reason, it was to show that this was a bl love story, and even though there was no kissing or sex, there was plenty of hugs and romantic gestures. At one point, WKX even gives ZZS a hairpin. Something that is a romantic gesture in heterosexual couples in historical dramas. These seemingly innocent gestures are sprinkled throughout the drama making it love story between these two gentlemen.
Since I don't know Korean and must rely on subtitles, it seemed to me that Robin was the original personality of the child Seo Jin. After the kidnapping , Seo Jin's personality changed to being vulnerable, cold, and aloof. As they kept saying that Seo Jin, before the kidnapping, was fun, brave, and protective of his friend. Seo Jin's cold and ruthless personality didn't come out until after the kidnapping as he wanted a way to protect himself from his father and his friend who he thought had betrayed him. So I am not really clear on why the people in the drama were saying that cold, aloof, vulnerable Seo Jin is the original personality. In the end, it didn't really matter as the two personalities merged into one. jmo
Even though he is a general, they didn’t properly show his fight scenes. The only thing they show is him going…
Actually, I have to disagree. The story is not about them as a couple or the general's story (his is a side story connected to hers). This drama is about showing women being human beings and people. It illustrates the struggles (battles both metaphorically and literally) women have gone through to be recognized for their own merits, intelligence, business acumen, and desires. The villains do get more screen time as they are a part of the narrative of this struggle.
I finished this yesterday after taking a break from it. I'm glad I did as I now understand what they were trying to do. It is a social commentary on the history of women's struggles to be recognized as human beings and people, hence the four main couples. Two showing the best way to treat women and two showing how not to treat women. The writers created a good balance in that respect. jmo
Do you want modern or historical? Stay with Me is a modern adaption. However, I will warn you that Stay with Me…
Wow, for me, it is the other way around. I slogged through The Untamed (six months) and zipped through this one (three weeks). I don't have any historical ones to recommend.
Since I haven't read the novel, nor will I, I can't be disappointed about the marquis and his portrayal. However, I think viewers have missed the point of the drama and why the marquis wasn't in it as much. This drama was her story, not his. The writers focused more on how women have battled both metaphorically and literally to get recognized for their own merits and even to be just recognized as human beings and not play things for men, hence the three couples.
For me, to show the marquis "in all of his glory" as you wrote would have overshadowed her achievements and gone against everything the drama was trying to accomplish. Women are human beings with intelligence and business acumen; have good and bad intentions; above level endurance and strength; and have thoughts, emotions, and desires. Also, they didn't need another "ruthless" male general, they had many ruthless villains to fill that role. His role was meant to be a foil of the "villains". His gentleness compared to their ruthlessness. His devotion to her needs, wants, and desires as opposed to the greed, selfishness, and cruelty of the villains towards women, hence the three couples.
finally getting into this cuz I loved the untamed. If there are more such censored adaptions pls recommend
Do you want modern or historical? Stay with Me is a modern adaption. However, I will warn you that Stay with Me ends on a cliffhanger with no second season in sight.
This is why it is important to have Sang Zhi small for her age look like a child when she is 14. Zhao Lu Si could not have "grown in height" during the first temporal node. Thus they needed the smaller actress to stress that 14 year olds are still children (change the mindset of the people).
When she is 17, that is an entirely different ball game. She has now grown up to around his height. He no longer looks like her dad. However, she is unable to understand the novel DJX is reading, The End of Eternity, by Isaac Asimov. She is now grown up physically but is still not at the same maturity level as him. She is by law technically still a child. She is not the age of majority (able to handle business matters) or of marriageable age (20 for females) when she becomes a full adult. Yet, at the ages of 14, 17, and 19 she is of the age of consent.
Have you read the novel The End of Eternity? It is the novel shown several times during the first two episodes. The drama follows that novel almost to a T, but uses the Chinese novel of Hidden Love as its source material. The End of Eternity is a social commentary on the use of nuclear energy but does not come right out and say it. You should read The End of Eternity, and you will better understand why everyone gets that uncomfortable feeling at the beginning of the drama.
Thank you for the discussion. Happy drama watching.
On the other hand, throughout the drama Sang Zhi is considered a child (socially) until the very last episode when she turns 20 (marriageable age for females). Thus why she speaks like a child and acts like a child throughout most of the drama (including when she is 19). That childish voice is done for other reasons throughout the drama as well, but viewers do not understand the reasons and chalk it up to her just trying to be cute (entertainment).
The other reasons have to do with why two actresses had to play Sang Zhi when she was 14 and 17. She was sickly as a child and is underdeveloped for her age. When Sang Zhi meets DJX the first time at 14 there is a line in the doorway scene where she says, "I will grow up (meaning I will get taller physically)." One actress can't "grow in height" between 14 and 17. Thus why they needed two actresses, one short and one tall to play Sang Zhi at these ages. During the first temporal node from 14-17, Sang Zhi grows in height, but she is still a child emotionally and intellectually compared to DJX.
For me, this was a very carefully done drama from the casting to the writing. They left nothing to chance. jmo
Also, Victor Ma stated in an interview that he felt he could not pull off a romantic Sang Yan, but he really pulled off the broody, false bravado, comedic Sang Yan quite well. Loved him as well.
Despite that question, I loved the drama and would recommend it to anyone who like historical dramas.
For me, when he fights his uncle and Qi Min it showed his fierceness and "glory". When he stood up to his uncle and took the 108 lashes, it showed his fierceness to protect and honor her. Sometimes being humble is fierce.
What I got from the drama with his character is showing men how to be loving and supportive of their wives endeavors. Fierceness doesn't always need to be shown on a battlefield. He was fierce in other ways. jmo
Also, the grandmother can't read either, so she wouldn't be much of a teacher. In addition, even though mom is the scholar in the family, she doesn't seem to sit down with SS either and do what I would call teach her. It seems they read a series of books to learn how to read and Aunt Ge did show her these books. However, Aunt Ge left it up to Shao Shang to teach herself how to read. Shao Shang, not being interested in reading, remained illiterate in the classics.
There is an argument going on in the drama about education. What does it truly mean to be illiterate. Not everyone learns in the same way and also does everyone really need to know the classics? How useful is knowing the classics in a world that needs houses, food, clothing, and basic necessities. This is why SS and Yuan Shen will never work as a couple as he is literate in book learning, but not practical, survival type things. We need doctors and lawyers in the world, but we also need people who can build houses. Whose job is more important in society?
For me, this drama is one of the most intelligently written dramas I have watched as it uses the three types of persuasion to get across its message about numerous Chinese societal issues teen marriage, nepotism, favoritism, education, equality vs. equity, disciplining your children, etc.
Hope this helps. Happy drama watching!
When she kills the two main generals, this is symbolic to women conquering their two biggest hurdles in life: to be recognized as human beings and to be recognized for their own merits.
The first part of the drama is paying homage to Empress Wu who became queen of China. She reigned over the land in no one's shadow. Fan Chang Yu becomes "queen" of the village. When she becomes a general, the writers are paying homage to Mulan who switched places with her dad and became a general through her own merits. The end arc pays homage to business woman Zhou Ying who changed the way women were looked upon in business during the Qing dynasty.
Because of the above, ZLS' fight scenes are appropriate to the drama as they relate to him alone (the uncle). His fierceness is shown through this fight scene. We don't need anymore to show his fierceness. And ZLS is on screen more than what it seems.
Hope this helps. Thank you for the discussion and happy drama watching.
Since I don't know how far you got in this drama, that flirting around is there for a reason, it was to show that this was a bl love story, and even though there was no kissing or sex, there was plenty of hugs and romantic gestures. At one point, WKX even gives ZZS a hairpin. Something that is a romantic gesture in heterosexual couples in historical dramas. These seemingly innocent gestures are sprinkled throughout the drama making it love story between these two gentlemen.
Happy drama watching.
Since I don't know Korean and must rely on subtitles, it seemed to me that Robin was the original personality of the child Seo Jin. After the kidnapping , Seo Jin's personality changed to being vulnerable, cold, and aloof. As they kept saying that Seo Jin, before the kidnapping, was fun, brave, and protective of his friend. Seo Jin's cold and ruthless personality didn't come out until after the kidnapping as he wanted a way to protect himself from his father and his friend who he thought had betrayed him. So I am not really clear on why the people in the drama were saying that cold, aloof, vulnerable Seo Jin is the original personality. In the end, it didn't really matter as the two personalities merged into one. jmo
I finished this yesterday after taking a break from it. I'm glad I did as I now understand what they were trying to do. It is a social commentary on the history of women's struggles to be recognized as human beings and people, hence the four main couples. Two showing the best way to treat women and two showing how not to treat women. The writers created a good balance in that respect. jmo
Happy drama watching.
For me, to show the marquis "in all of his glory" as you wrote would have overshadowed her achievements and gone against everything the drama was trying to accomplish. Women are human beings with intelligence and business acumen; have good and bad intentions; above level endurance and strength; and have thoughts, emotions, and desires. Also, they didn't need another "ruthless" male general, they had many ruthless villains to fill that role. His role was meant to be a foil of the "villains". His gentleness compared to their ruthlessness. His devotion to her needs, wants, and desires as opposed to the greed, selfishness, and cruelty of the villains towards women, hence the three couples.
Happy drama watching.