grapejuice

I loved the first season but omg it was harsh. I've re-watched the first 4 episodes a number of times and then had to stop before the pain begins. S2 I can re-watch all the way through without feeling too badly beat up :-)

please don't listen to people who are saying that s2 is no good. s1 is excellent. It's hard hitting but amazing. And s2 is a good continuation. It's different, not as hard hitting with more funny moments ... that you will need after watching s1. So, please give them both a look. I have no idea why people are being so hard on the second instalment of what will probably be a trilogy. Anyway ... enjoy ...

Yes 'different' and 'incorrect' should be clarified.

You're mixing up something that's important when you say that your opinion is correct and other people's opinions are incorrect. Why?Because people have opinions rather than facts when it comes to things like art.

The correct distinction is as follows. Opinions are not fact. People's opinions are not factual. Your opinions are not some kind of objective statement of fact while other people's are different and incorrect.

The word 'correct' or 'incorrect' applies to statements of fact and things that can be proven. You can offer evidence to back up an opinion. You can state your reasons for holding an opinion.

But your reasons and your evidence do not make your opinion into a fact. Your opinion can be well supported or not ... but it is still just an opinion and someone else's opinion is still just their opinion. Neither of you are holding onto facts.

So, don't claim that your opinions are correct as if they are facts. Instead ... go to the dictionary to learn the next important and related distinction ... between what is subjective and what is objective.

I haven't even started this yet. I'm just skimming the reviews to see if I want to.

But, you know, I just have to say that you are way out of line with this comment. Painting everyone who doesn't like the things that you like ... as being shallow and stupid ... that's just extremely narrow minded and childish. Let other people have their own opinions and realize that other people may often dislike things that you might even cherish.

And that doesn't mean that they're in some way less than whatever you believe yourself to be. They may have a different experience of life and/or a different taste than you do. And so they won't agree with whatever you happen to be thinking.

Which means that it would probably be a good thing for you to step down as a self-declared arbiter of all good taste. Nobody has been mean to you by disagreeing with you in some demeaning or nasty way. So why are you coming out of the block to be condescending and unkind to anyone who doesn't see things your way?

I mean it can be rough when people cruelly write off the THINGS that we love, but that doesn't mean that we should cruelly write off the PEOPLE who don't share our love for those things. Be a decent person and allow other people to feel differently and disagree with you.

BJ and the union didn't keep watch on SE. BJ wanted to know what HM was up to and, when he learned there was an interesting new face around HM, he wanted to meet that new face. So, he had his 2nd in command go and get him and bring him in for an appraisal. There was obviously some jealousy over HM in all that. And so he clearly warns SE away from HM.

And then he finds that SE is probably as smart as he is, so he becomes more respectful towards SE than he is towards most of the guys he knows. And, that's enough respect to keep him from beating up on the smaller, weaker guy who doesn't have the kind of fight training that he received from HM. SE is much like he was before HM's training transformed him into a real fighter.

I feel the same way about BS. I can understand him... mostly ... but I can never forgive him for going full throttle when it was so completely unnecessary. He's quite a memorable character for being such a vile turncoat.

all of season 1 is a flashback in the webtoon. it's not exactly the same but it's similar and it just serves as a part of Gray's backstory.
season 2 by itself ... is a distilled (and altered for tv) version of the whole webtoon.

The easiest part first. Hu Min cares about Si Eun so much and so quickly because he's a sensitive person with a great deal of empathy. He and Si Eun are both people who obviously have a great deal of love for their friends. They feel a huge amount of responsibility for their friends and they carry a huge heavy weight of guilt because of what happened and is happening around their friends. And they know this about each other from their convo on volunteer work day. Hu Min then hears Si Eun talking about, and to, Su Ho when he's barely conscious after a fight. He and the other guys find out the whole story about what happened to SuHo and then, in the hospital,when he sees how extraordinarily desperate Si Eun is to get to his friend's side and for SuHo to be ok ... he cries ... just like we do ... because it's a totally heartbreaking situation. How can his heart not break for Si Eun especially when their experience is so similar. So, it's all pretty obvious don't you think? Not rushed. Completely understandable and completely believable.
And Baek Jin as well. We see how badly he's bullied in middle school. We see how apprehensive he is when Hu Min goes to the orphanage with him ... and how relieved he is that Hu Min doesn't care or judge him for his being an orphan. But HuMin is the only one who treats him well. Because he has to go to school with those rich kids. He's a scholarship student. He knows they don't like him. He feels his poverty acutely and he must surely experience a lot of condescension and scorn or even repulsion from the other students who are so much better off than he is.
How do we know this? Because he buys puffer coats for the orphanage kids. Everyone wears the same uniform but the rich show their superiority with the highest priced shoes, coats and bags. So, BaekJin closes that gap for the others. He goes into business and becomes a leader of a gang. It's the only way he can earn a lot of money ... at his age ... and he has the smarts to do it. He craves power as an antidote to his school experiences and he becomes ruthless to maintain the money, his independence and his new position of superiority. He may well be worried about having gotten into bed with the gangster. But no one else will dare to mess with him now. They shouldn't dare to look down on him. And he's only doing what others have done to him. So, no need for scruples. He's just doing what he must.

We learn that Baek Jin intends for the business to continue, get larger and become legit after school ends so he thinks that HuMin should be in it with him. For HuMin's sake and because he needs Hu Min to still love and approve and care for him. Since Hu Min was the only one ... Baek Jin is desperate to maintain that relationship above all others and he won't stop at much to make that happen because it's the only real and certain, genuine thing that he's ever had. So, Si Eun hit the nail on the head when he describes it to Baek Jin and you can plainly see on Baek Jin's face that Si Eun got it right. Exactly right.
So, I'm afraid that it isn't hard to fill in the gaps on Baek Jin. Those who are disenfranchised, demeaned and are badly bullied often become bullies too. That's the world so that's what they learn. Beom Seok is the same. And we know this. So, all you have to do is pay attention and use your head. Baek Jin's story is obvious especially when you consider Beom Seok's as well. They're actually quite similar.

Like I said, we need to agree to disagree. It's pretty obvious that we didn't read the same webtoon because we read it so differently from one another. And we didn't watch the same drama because we saw different things in it. You preferred the webtoon and I preferred the drama; each for our own reasons.

I don't need to be told in fine detail why people went the way and ended the way that they did. Why? Because it's not hard to figure it out on your own (in relation to Beom Seok and Baekjin both) just by looking at situations and reading between the lines. Good writers show rather than tell. And the complexity, the development, that we see in characters and the drama as a whole?

Start with the quotes that are given in episode one of each season and explore the themes that come from them. And really pay attention to the characters key thoughts, actions and dialogue at the important junctures. You'll see the differences and all the ways that both seasons of the drama are so much more subtle and complex than the webtoon could be. Because the mediums and the writing that go with them ... are just different. Much more can be done in a live action drama than in a webtoon.

The thing about being a weak hero is that you have to be vicious. Others are the aggressor. They hit first or they attack as a gang. They have the height, weight and reach advantage. And they have fight training or they have a lot of experience. So, the one that gets picked on ... is the one that fights back instead of fighting first or best. So, he HAS to be vicious and smart ... or he's just gonna be dead. He's outmatched and shouldn't even be there ... so he has to fight dirty and win or die. I think that's the whole point of fighting from the weak hero class.

Despicable isn't it? And it really is bringing the rating down so I hope they're getting their petty kicks out of it ... because the drama deserves much better. Giving it a 6 or a 7 is just ridiculous.

I read it. 268 instalments with the afterword. And I also wish the live action had more episodes. I would have loved another one or two in part 1 and in part 2. But it didn't get them. It got the short run treatment that more and more kdramas are getting in the last few years. Which seems to be what audiences want instead of 16 or even 12 episodes. So, there would have been people who would have complained if there were more.

And the question should be whether they did well with what they had or not. And I think that they did. There's lots of interaction between the 4 main characters. They bond at school, with the volunteer work, over some meals, through some fights and bad situations and just hanging around playing ball or sitting and talking on the bleachers.

And we have two or three antagonists with some room for Teddy or Gerard or Rowan in part 3 perhaps. But we didn't need them to have a strong story in part 2. Their being there would just have split the action too much ... into too many pieces that would be too distracting. Especially for people who weren't expecting them because they didn't read the webtoon.

Anyway, I do get your point and we'll agree to disagree but why not watch again in a month or two? part 1 and part 2 run together and just consider whether it's a good story on it's own ...without comparing to the webtoon. i bet you'll enjoy it more the second time.

I know we need to agree to disagree but ... really? Character development in the webtoon? There was hardly any character development for any of the many, many characters in the webtoon. Even the ML was far less developed in the webtoon. We have less background for him. The only thoughts we get relate to his fight strategy ... and the only development we see is that he becomes a better fighter. Even a scene where he is unexpectedly rescued by others all we get from him is his saying something like ... 'then I remembered a word I'd forgotten, friendship'. I mean seriously? Could that be any flatter? And that was about it for any kind of development. In fact, the only character with a decent backstory was the one that died. And we learned about it like it was an afterthought ... AFTER he died !!! So, it came off like a belated plea for sympathy, or an extended apology ... but it had no real emotion effect. And the webtoon's plot development was no better. It was convoluted, meandering and repetitive. I mean I really loved the webtoon. It's an excellent webtoon. But I loved it more before the drama appeared because the drama took the story and the characters so much deeper.

Bad as hell? I know you're entitled to your opinion and you're not alone in it. But don't you think that you and other people too are going overboard on the comparison critiques? Is part 2 really such a write off? Do you mean to tell people not to bother watching it? Do you want to sink part 2 because it's not what you wanted it to be and every bit as good or better than part 1 was?

I'm afraid I don't get it. Park JiHoon seems to be proud of both parts of the drama and his work is excellent in both. Do you figure he's embarrassed or something and doesn't want people to watch both of his performances? Do you want people to miss his performance in part 2? I mean, I doubt that he's feeling sorry for himself because part 2 doesn't compare in everyone's eyes to part 1.

I did read the source material !!! Before watching the drama. And it does well at the kinds of things that webtoons can do well. Establish a good premise for a plot driven story that comes at you in small, regular instalments over time. A webtoon can have more characters and more things happening where a live action drama is better to go deeper into less of it. Fewer characters. Fewer things happening. Less action. A plot that's less drawn out. With more depth in character exploration. Webtoon drawings are simpler and more static than the things that an actor and director can do. So, you can look for more depth of emotion in a drama.

You'll only be dissatisfied with one or the other if you expect them to be able to do all things that the other can do ... when the two mediums are actually good at very different things. So, the point is not to compare, if you can avoid it. I wish that each of the two parts of the drama were longer but I don't think that either of them is a watered down version of the webtoon. They aim to do things differently than the webtoon in order to capitalize on the strengths of live action and the actors playing each part.

The dramas, for instance, concentrate very heavily on the main character where the webtoon goes on for many episodes at a time, showing other characters and situations ... without showing much of Gray at all. Why? The drama concentrates on the ML to strengthen the story and to capitalize on the fact that Park JiHoon is brilliant at being Si Eun. He can show so much more on his face than you could ever see in the static drawings of Gray despite the illustrator being excellent. Which is one of the main differences between the mediums and why the drama isn't just a watered down version of the webtoon. They're just different.

And personally I think that the drama is better at exploiting it's strengths than the webtoon is at exploiting it's strengths. If I could only have one of them, I'd pick the drama, hands down.

Wow. There's a purposeful exaggeration. The webtoon episodes are extremely short, there are many many more superfluous characters and way too many unnecessary fight scenes. So, paring it down was actually a god-send, and it didn't feel too rushed or too condensed to me at least. I mean the webtoon was really good in a lot of ways but ...omg it was loooooong and repetitive.

I hope a few people decide to watch them back to back because it's really obvious when you do that ... that they make a good progression ... and there had to be a change in tone and scope ... but it's clearly one really good story.

I enjoyed the webtoon. Read it before I saw the drama. But essentially, it's one long fight scene with tiny doses of character and plot development in between each instalment of the fight. Which is fine. Lots of action. And it definitely explores Si Eun's fighting technique a whole lot more. Which is kinda cool. We read his thinking, his calculations, his planning and his growing ruthlessness as he does more and more fighting and becomes better at it.

But that's not enough for to make a live action drama worthwhile. There's not enough emotional payoff in it. So, they cut the number of characters by about 2/3rds and the number of plot points (mainly fight scenes) by about 9/10ths ... so that they could concentrate on the kinds of things that make characters into realistic, complex, subtle ... people. Especially Si Eun since it's his story after all.

The drama shows the profound isolation and loneliness that Si Eun has been living in. It shows the huge disconnect between him and his parents and between him and the whole world around him. Until he makes his first friends by standing out to defend himself and then to defend others as well.

In the webtoon, Si Eun is a quiet, brilliant pretty boy but in the drama, he's also probably neuro-divergent in at least a few ways ... and so it's a total miracle for him (and we feel it too) ... when he starts to really connect with just a few totally amazing people.

Which is the thing that makes the drama story so much richer and more compelling than the webtoon story ... as he tries and often fails to protect the people that he's coming to love. You realize that the stakes are clearly much higher. It's the depth and importance of those relationships that give the fights their purpose. He really has to win in the drama. It's essential. It's actually more than life or death. It's about his finally having more of a reason to live in the first place.

So, I get your point about the fights but I'm happy that there is so much more reason for the fights in the drama than there was in the webtoon. For me, the nature of print and the plot (over character) focus ... makes it too dry and too shallow compared to the tv drama.

He's joking about the lighthearted sitcom continuation, right?
Right? haha. please no.

The gang leader he was working for promised that he would come back to kill him if there were any more problems ... and he did. He killed him. And then he sent all those wreathes to the funeral which, I think, was a way to add insult to injury and imply heavily, to anyone left alive, what the power structure had been and who had made the move to end the lower level boss that had screwed up.

For the background:
They were both raised poor in difficult circumstances. NBJ was extremely grateful to PHM for not looking down on him for being an orphan, for coming to his rescue when he was being bullied and for teaching him how to fight. All things he'll never forget. All reasons why he will always want PHM to be his friend. All reasons why he wants PHM to continue accepting him and to continue being on his side.

But he's smart. And then he's both smart and powerful. And that goes to his head. He intends to make a whole lot of money through the Union. It's his fullproof ticket out of poverty ... the easier one that doesn't require the kindness of strangers who might eventually reject him. And he seems to like the lawlessness and aggression. Maybe he even becomes addicted to the power.

So he thinks it can benefit PHM too. He can benefit PHM too. Being in the Union together can extend their friendship and keep PHM onside. A win-win. And it will get money to the other kids like himself at the orphanage as well.

He just doesn't see the huge differences between himself and PHM. He doesn't see how PHM can never be a thug and a crook. He can't accept that his friend looks down on him for being a thug and a crook. So he refuses to let go. He keeps trying desperately to bring PHM into his fold somehow. And then he'll miraculously stay so that BNJ won't have to change his plan.

Actually, Si Eun nails it when he says that NBJ sees PHM as his only friend and brother ... someone that he can't let go of even when it's pretty clear that not letting go will be his downfall.