grapejuice

You know, if you like this one ... and you haven't already seen it ... I think you will like Joy of Life as well. It has all the scheming but it's understandably plus a little more humor and a wee little bit of the fantastical as well. I was just looking at it deciding to watch it again for the x number of times while I wait for the next installment of this one.

I think they still do have respect for each other and they realize that they aren't on the same page even though they are still communicating and planning together to the degree that they can. TY isn't working directly for the Emperor while ZL definitely is stuck in a role that he can't really share with her, a role that's dirty enough and dangerous enough that he doesn't really want to share it with her. And, so far, there have only been times when he shouldn't.

I mean, he killed her dad and we all interpreted that as something that he willingly chose to do. But with her father consistently causing massive scenes that could get ZL kicked out of court and derail the salt reform ... do you think that ZL really had a choice? No, the Yu's were using daddy dearest too easily and too well. So, he had to be removed somehow.

But could TY have been involved in that? No.

And the Mo incident. Did ZL have a choice? Could/should he have involved TY in that? She doesn't work directly for the King and she didn't share her plan with ZL. He's not the only one failing to communicate and work together. And the Emperor needed a monumental show of total devotion anyway. He wanted total obedience and rapid action to shut down a disastrous situation. So, even if she had communicated with her husband ... and he had communicated with her ... well ... and her book of evidence was too little too late anyway.

I think the thing for us all to do now is to realize that this couple can't be what it was ... at least for a while. They need a miraculous level plan at this point ...

Come now. You're too smart for this very dramatic question ... :-)
Maybe wait till it's over ... before rating it?

It's kind of funny when people (other characters and audience members too) claim that ZL has power or power has kind of gone to his head.

Because he really doesn't have any power of his own. He absolutely cannot say no to the King. The only power he has belongs to the King. And it can be taken back in a nanosecond possibly taken along with one clean swing of the heavy blade that removes his head. The Emperor has made him into an extention of himself but one that can be worn or removed as needs be. ZL and TY have no alliances because the King needs total devotion and can't allow them too have what Yu has (wealth, alliances and many ways out).

It's actually more accurate to say that ZL and TY have absolutely no power of their own. They can't say no and adhere to their own values, morals, wants, needs ... And they can't walk away when they want to either. They're too valuable to a King who has invested maybe too much in them.

I mean does the King have any real choices either? It seems not. Why? Because the Yus (and others too maybe) have become way too powerful over many many years.

At the time, she asked him to choose between an honest life and a dishonest one where the now Emperor's offer clearly represented the honest road. Neither of them had any idea that the Emperor had this kind of plan for them; one where they would have to be totally devoted, totally obedient and just as cut-throat as the villains.

To be fair. Both of them were naive and really had no idea what they were signing up for or who and what they would be up against.

So, you think that he had a choice? He could disobey the Emperor? Do you really think he has any choices at all? You think that he is actually profiting from this situation? You think that he can keep his hands clean in his current job and just walk away from it? No.

He is using his brain though. He knows what the priority is ... the salt reform ... getting the corrupt heavy hitters out of his court because they're too powerful, immoral and dangerous ...

The Emperor wants to make a better realm and he knows that he's got to sacrifice some people even though he personally doesn't want to ... whenever they are put in the way to be sacrificed by his opposition.

It's the art of war. It's a game of Go. And he's playing against people like Yu who are ever so clever and ruthless and ... have become in many ways more powerful than he is.

Court politics and realm management 101 for us ... but advanced level for him.

I like all of what we heard after the last court session when Mr. Yu is talking about ZL to his brown robed relative who works in the palace.

the relative says ... "He is no different from Madam Wu. Like a blade of grass. Because he has no roots, he has to fight his way upward. He must make everyone see that he is thriving, that he is a useful plant and will not harm the crops so he will not be uprooted. ... T

then Mr. Yu says ... "the more one rises from the bottom, the more they should (be concerned by) two things: first becoming insatiably hungry for advancement and second blindly proving loyalty to those above them ... Don't be fooled that the Zhao family is currently at the height of its glory. enjoying unprecedented success. In truth Zhao Ling is surrounded by enemies on all sides, and has lost the support of the Northwest The moment the Emperor stops protecting him he will be doomed beyond redemption." ... and ... Young men never know that the higher they climb, the harder they fall.

And this comes around the time that we see ZL alone on the stairs, slightly above a group of Yu and his many allies gathered together just to smirk at him. As someone below commented this visual pretty much says it all. But the words are instructive too.

There's truth in them but also we see again that Yu has some stereotypes firmly ingrained in his mind. He has a picture of what an upstart looks like. He's assumed that ZL is just another upstart even though he has achieved an unprecedented position. And he seems unable to see himself clearly in the same picture.

He's not concerned to inspect, analyze or characterize himself in any way. When he says that young men don't consider how hard they will fall if they climb high, he's obviously not thinking that the same thing applies to him. In his mind, he is so firmly entrenched in the substrate of all this that it doesn't matter how high he towers over everyone else. He's a wall or a great tree compared to people like Mdm Wu or ZL who are just single blades of grass.

It's interesting to think about the various points of view in this drama.

The entrenched nobility like Yu have this picture of the world. ZL has, indeed, come up from nothing into a truly heady and confusing atmosphere in court and as the Emperor's chosen one. TY was raised with much privilege and the opportunity to develop skill in understanding the officialdom, court and nobility and their politics. She's been thrown out of that middling atmosphere; nearly killed by the hypocrisy. She's experienced some of what the lowly grass live with but she may not ever understand what ZL has lived through and how the world looks to him. And then there's the Emperor; the wild card. His path to the thrown was unorthodox so he does not see the world the way that his forbears would have. He has all the thrones problems but maybe his experience is closer to ZL's in some ways and closer to TY's in some ways. He does seem to want to affect a better life for all though. Is that the splendor in the title?

Anyway, it all comes down to his plans and goals though so let's hope he, TY and ZL can engineer something that will work around the Yu's of the world in order to bring them down.

Gotta think some more about the way the drama is depicting these dynamics and how they might be used to get the world closer to something like splendor. I love it when a drama digs deep into real world issues and society at large and isn't just all about the cutsy romance dynamics, marriage and babies ... you know?

Oh oh. This sounds like you are taking on the role of today's "voice of reason". So that means I shouldn't scroll through the other comments before watching the episode. I just woke up and they're going to ruin my day, right? Ok. TY for taking on the role today. I notice that you do it quite often which is much appreciated. You are a strong and steadying force ... especially when read before the morning coffee :-)

Oh my. You are gifted in the art of exaggeration. But I hope you get your fill of cutsy couple scenes before it's done :-)

so how many times have they done it? In court? It's only been a couple ... hardly on repeat

The Glory kdrama or The Glory cdrama? That's funny I've fairly recently rewatched both of them. I like the kdrama because she manages to get revenge indirectly by maneuvering the baddies into a position where they punish themselves. And I guess the cdrama is kind of similar in that the heroine doesn't have to deliver the final blow herself. I guess they're letting us off the hook with these endings. We can enjoy the fact that revenge came about but we don't have to blame the character for doing it directly or ourselves for openly cheering that they did. Haha.

Ahh. I totally respect your piece by piece progression.

It's funny, I don't believe in vigilantism and I don't believe in the death penalty. I do believe in courts of law. They aren't perfect but they're the best we have. Our social contracts depend on them.

So, it's kind of curious that these historical dramas mess my values up so much. LoL. I can say no to many of the revenge drama plots and some I can't watch at all but these historical dramas confuse me because there seems to be no valid court systems or as in wuxia there are only sects and councils and ... revenge killings that all the characters never question.

So, I guess, while these dramas are entertaining ... I much prefer to live where we do when things work as they're supposed to.

you are so right !!!

please tell me that homicidal maidservant doesn't see them or get wind of it !

I would think that book is very important too so I'm a little bit concerned so far that TY spoke first and the book hasn't been handed over yet. It would be vital for Wu not to be caught with it especially since TY is really asking Wu to take on some highly dangerous risks. She doesn't know like we do that the Yus are so eager to kill people but I would have thought that TY would take her own advice to slow down and not put her best spy in such a perilous position.

I think they're not just clinging to money and power though. At least not at this point. At this moment they could see actual punishment ... jail for life, execution, exile as well as losing all the money and power and property. Even their descendants would lose everything. So, methinks they must actually be terrified and truly desperate ... which has led them to new completely evil acts that they might not have done if they weren't so threatened.

Sometimes doing nothing and walking away is the right thing to do. Usually going the legal route is the right thing to do. Occassionally taking matters into your own hands is the only thing left that you can do. At least in a C-drama.

Forgiving or doing nothing can come back to haunt you because the perpetrator keeps on killing and/or sabotaging and then you are responsible for facilitating or allowing it to happen. Still if you think they are basically good and will reform themselves ??? maybe ???

Taking it to the law and the courts is what we're supposed to do but in those days particularly the courts can be biased or bought, the case airs the details so it is also judged by the public and often the victims get blamed, smeared and hurt more than the perpetrator. What would have happened here do you think? TY is definitely not teflon in this story. Everything sticks to her reputation and everyone loves dragging her.

So that leaves the last option. Will daddy dearest continue to do heinous things? Can the court of law and public opinion try him without hurting the good guys? Does he not deserve some punishments for all the heinous things he's done? Is he going to repent and do better in the future?

ZL's choice was definitely justified in my mind. Sorry he had to do it and dirty his own hands but, in those days, particularly, he didn't really have a choice.

And telling his wife beforehand would be problematic too. It would make her complicit and guilty of patricide. She would have been guilt ridden instead of having a chance to heal her wounds. She would have to deal with the fact that he was a hateful man, insane and not a father who deserved anything good in return for the things he did in his life. It wasn't wrong to hate him or at least his actions.

All in all, it's regrettable and distasteful ... but I can't say that he made the wrong choice?
What's your opinion then ... if you look at it piece by piece ... and not just in terms of what TY is going through. Was there really a better way to help her to heal?

No he didn't perish in the war. He's still alive