somerisebycyn

Seeing as people cant do the due dilligence to fact check themselves before commenting here are some English definitions of rape from various sources:

From the Rape Crisis Centre:
This means that someone doesn't consent to sex or other sexual activity if they:

Say 'no'.
Seem unsure or upset, stay quiet, move away or don't respond.
Are asleep, unconscious, drunk, drugged or on drugs.
Are pressured, manipulated, tricked or scared into saying 'yes'.
Are too young or vulnerable to have the freedom and capacity to make that choice.

From the American Heritage dictionary
rape /rāp/
noun

The crime of using force or the threat of force to compel a person to submit to sexual intercourse. The crime of using force or threat of force to compel a person to submit to some other sexual penetration. Other unlawful sexual intercourse or penetration, as with an unconscious person or person below the age of or incapable of consent. An instance of any of these crimes. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
"the rape of Europa by Zeus."
The act of pillaging or plundering.
"the rape of the city by the invaders."
Abusive or improper treatment; spoiling or abuse.
"the rape of the land by polluters."

From Miriam Websters:


rape
1 of 4
noun (1)
ˈrāp
Synonyms of rape
1
: unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against a person's will or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent because of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or deception

Wikipedia (with sources from the World Health Organisation, Minnesota Journal of Law and Inequality, Oxford Essay "The Wrongness of Rape" and "The Trauma of Sexual Assault Treatment, Prevention and Practice"

Rape is a type of sexual assault involving sexual intercourse, or other forms of sexual penetration, carried out against a person without their consent. The act may be carried out by physical force, coercion, abuse of authority, or against a person who is incapable of giving valid consent, such as one who is unconscious, incapacitated, has an intellectual disability, or is below the legal age of consent (statutory rape).[1][2] The wrongness of the rape is not merely or, on many occasions even primarily, the violence against the body of the victim but the violence against the very person of the victim[3]. The term rape is sometimes casually used interchangeably with the term sexual assault.[4

Do you just believe that everything the characters say to one another is the truth devoid of context? Would something maybe make someone who has no control or power left in a relationship lash out and pretend they are in control? Noooo its not like FX did the same thing when he was claiming that he just wanted to pump and dump Shulang because he felt he was emotionally losing control and they are literally mirrors of each other as seen by the recordings that FXs brother takes of each of them talking hurtful bs out of their arse about each other or anything...

I beg you BEG you to look up the signs of domestic violence. For your sake I beg. Because FX literally ticks off 90%of the list. You saying this is actually jist fully wild. If someone physically cannot leave you or you will hurt people they care about and is completely still, unmoving and not participating in sex as we see in the montage. if they say no every time you try to sleep with them and even CRY when you try. if they set their boundary as the one thing they know youre not prepared to do (let him top) THEY DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU, you have coerced them. And sexual coersion is... say it with me now... Rape. Full textbook, dictionary definition, wikipedia entry, court case description Rape.

Maybe in the book it was described otherwise but every single thing we see in this show points a big red finger to this is the English language defined rape.

I would actually like to apologise for one of the things I said in my last comment. After reflection I recognise that there may be more personal reasons why youre struggling against identifying this as rape and its not my place to make you confront that if youre not ready for this. So if thats the case I am genuinely sorry.

You'll likely take this as condescending given your responses in our past comments but I would genuinely suggest if its not a case of you not wanting to confront something you take the time to refresh yourself on the definitions of rape in case you happen to be working off a slight misunderstanding or something. I often do that before I double down on discussion points just in case Im working off old info or something.

If its neither of these cases then I really hope youre not one of the people who would admit to having committed the acts that constitute rape but wouldnt recognise they had raped someone, as supposedly supported by university surveys.

No but people watch fiction where people go oh he can be redeemed just by saying sorry and then in their own DV situation and see a mass of people like you whitewashing it and think to themselves hmm he loves me and he apologises and he says hes trying to change and yes i dont want to do it most of the time and the only reason i do is because im scared hell hurt me or others but thats not rape, surely its not thaaat bad. And its romantic if he says hes changed even though having a victim and their domestic abuser stay together is like giving a coke addict a bag of it and telling them to kiss and nuzzle it every day - way too easg yo backslide into old patterns and habbits and then they have extra reason to stay. Because, as you have accurately recognised, when people are doing horrible things there is always a reason from their perspective, rarely are people going round actively trying to be evil in their own minds so there is always some kind of justification and when you are the recipient of that but you are receiving it as misguided love you take every reason to stay. Being an adult doesnt stop you from internalising external data. We learn and grow every single day from the outputs around us. Thats why people tell porn watchers to remember porn is not sex for example because internalising what is presented through porn as regular sexual encounters is dangerous even though it too is "adult content".

I dont "know better than the rest of the audience" and given what youre posting its a real pot kettle situation at best.

This isnt dub con its full non con. I absolutely can call every penetrative sexual encountee between them nob con because he literally says no and lies there not participating and often crying. Youve suggested lust is to blame, if he was lustful even if he hated himself for it he would be a participant in the sexual encounter. He also again cannot consent. Your whole contract scenario only works in a world where hed walked away and came back of his own volition. That is not whats happening here. I read and watch a lot of content that has various levels of dub to non con in it. This is rape. This is exactly what rape actually is. "Sexual coersion" is literally a synonym for rape. This is textbook definition of rape and your need to scoot around it outside of you setting an arbitrary line for yourself is confusing to me. You wouldnf have a discussion around the character of Dexter Morgan or Villanelle without acknowledging they are killers even if you like their characters. You woulent have a conversation about everyones favourite toxic Thai BL guy without acknowledging hes a torturer and a kidnapper (and technically murderer but everyone was in that setting) I dont know why youre struggling so hard to have a conversation about this character without acknowledging hes a rapist. Hes sexually assaulted him before they were together and then theres been rape after they broke up.

It would be perfectly fine if you were taking away your lessons in a vacuum but if youre out in life seeing pretty textbook rape that is even filmed to show you the physical lack of consent occurring as not rape thats literally a problem for other people around you. I absolutely hate to say it but we live in a society...

Again do not at all take me saying know how to identify bad thibgs irl with do not enjoy consumption of FICTION. I dont really know how many times i have to say it before you absorb that part of what im saying. But acknowledging rape when you see it is actually an important frigging social skill that does actual real worod harm when people dont do it.

If youre watching this as a piece of fiction and enjoying the story theres absolutely nothing wrong with this.

All that being said, please watch this *safely* while engaging with the themes of this story. As some commenters were adamant that this is not a story of domestic violence I'd suggest people take the time to just look into domestic violence signs and outcomes and also rape and SA too just so you can watch the show with the full understanding of its context. This is just a piece of fiction, fiction can be dark and explore many themes but please don't forget its reflections in real life.

If this is not you and youre fully aware of the signs of rape and domestic violence that is totally fine, this comment is absolutely not for you. But just some of the other comments have me hella concerned haha.

I was gonna write a considered response to this but youre literally ignoring what ive previously said and conflating me with the OP so there's really no point having a conversation with someone who is arguing with themselves.

The only points Ill say are that happiness and redemption are not the same as a victim ending up with their abuser (see my very first comment for an expansion of that) and someone saying a specific ending would be wild followed by you saying you dont know what the author is going to do with the characters is wild. Yeah if tne author doesn't go for the formulaic ending that you can guess from the intro and generally having seen c dramas that would not be wild but it would also not be what OP was talking about then, would it? And people come here for that formulaic ending, I fully acknowledge that, I just also need for the safety of our actual communities for you to be able to accurately acknowledge what is occuring even as youre explaining your understanding of the characters and how they have arrived at the choices they have. Erasing what he has done here as not rape and not DV (which you kept doing) is dangerous to actual real life victims of rape and DV. You can talk about everything surrounding the characters and engage with the story without doing that.

Im so so sorry I still think im not fully understanding what you mean as I can read this to go either way.

Hes forced to be there. Thats the nuance. Youve decided its black and white because you are the person ignoring the nuance that makes it rape. This is rape. It is very important to me that for your safety and for the people around you unless you have no sexual contact with others that acknowledge that this is actually rape. You literally cannot consent if you are unable to leave. The contract is literally a way to try and pry back power because he isnt allowed to move on with his life without reprecussions for himself and others. He starts off by sexually assaulting Shulang which we KNOW he did because they call a spade a spade when hes pretended its someone else thats done it and pretends to beat him half to death and then the literally forces Shulang into a relationship with him that Shulang CANNOT LEAVE.

Hes literally held hostage in a domestic violence situation. Literally anyone who understands the brain or human psychology, emotions or safety in any way will tell you domestic violence is bad for you and you shouldnt stay with your abuser? Its not about me its about like objective truth. These arent like borderline behaviours this is hardcore DV that people go to shelters and into protection to escape for a reason.

Did I say it bothered me that bad? You're attacking people who are saying the situation is a bad situation like theyre slating the show itself. Thats not whats happening. I'm watching for the character study and for the refreshing nature of a relatively smart protagonist (though now because hes actively lost his soul and will to live and is being actively raped every other day hes lost the ability to think straight which is fully valid) I literallly said fiction is fiction for a reason, I can consume dark shit but my ability to consume content like this *safely* is through being able to understand that this is objectively, not subjectively at this point at all, bad for these two people to be together. This is what I say every time there is a show to this extent. Saying youre ignoring the flags and whatever or think the character is interesting is totally valid because its fiction one thing as soon as you cant admit that in reality these behaviours are not something a victim should be ignoring or trying to work through it becomes genuinely real world dangerous. We love a keekee heehaw hear me out. We also love keeping communities safe with understandings of how art reflects in the real world.

Wait, are you saying this is or isnt love. You seem to be suggesting that this is love but not fluffy love but in the same sentence you state DV is not love. But this is literally a depiction of domestic violence?

I'm not sure ending up with your long term rapist can really count as a "good ending" haha. it just happens to be the ending the story takes. The happy ending would realistically be one where the protagonists end up happy and better people but that doesnt require people who irl should absolutely no be together ending up being together. Like if you would let a friend, for example, be with someone who'd done all the things to Sholing that have been done you would by all accounts be a terrible human being. But fiction be fictioning.

Either way you replied to someone venting about how its crazy to end it with them together not that they're trying to control the ending. it's not their story so they can only hope for an outcome just like anyone else watching any other piece of media. Thats not really the same as trying to control how rhe author ends a story.

What makes you think at any point she thought Bell liked Claire for the power? Before Bell and Claire were officially discovered by her Bell had told her exactly what she thought of her power and abuse of it. She's literally an incel blaming others for the consequences of her own actions.

DeeDee is canonically not hetero and who knows what Porsches deal is.

What do you mean? They had an open ending though.

OP meant originally not at the end of the story. As in why was she there in the first place.

Yeah I just come from one of the cultures that doesn't really do half siblings and when you do it would stop there. the concept of a half uncle when you're already using uncle to denote respect to any guy older than you even when they're not related kind of doesn't exist so it becomes are you related or not? sure. Then because of this cousin charts would never show a "half" relationship. I understand what you mean now and how it could be geneologically useful but I wonder how socially useful that distinction is and how many people actively use it.

Ah yes, I see.

I agree with what you've said for sure. I just wanted to point out theres no such thing as a half cousin. If their dad is what makes them related then who their mom is wouldn't matter to whether they are more or less cousins than Jeongin is his cousin.