Confession: NIF was the only historical drama that I didn’t skip episodes because you just can’t. Every episode was linked so you cannot miss any of it..
Story:10/10- I must say, the writer was a genius!! What I love about this drama is it was not rush to show how they achieved their goal. Every plan, every step, every person that is involved was important and it really display how the imperial court change because of Lin Shu’s magnificent tactics and strategies. Wow just wow. How they come up with that kind story??. It was well crafted from start until the end.. well done!!
Cast:
Lin Shu/Zhu Ze/Mei Chang Su- How can I describe this guy??!! Hu Ge was perfect for this role. A very sick but genius tactician was the heart of the story. Seriously he can never be ill and I’m really nervous whenever he’s in critical stage coz it will be disaster to all the people around him. I feel that all plans must be approve by him or else it will be a tragedy. That is how important his role is. I love how he didn't intend to get revenge but try to make things right.....
Prince JinYang- Jin Yang will be my most slow-to-pickup character ever!!but It has reason to that and Im glad that he was like that..watch this to know what I mean? I watched this prince grow from being reckless, well he’s still reckless until the end? until he became a good ruler.
General Meng-ahhh.. My favorite general. A funny,simple minded,honest, strong and very loyal general meng. I really love the interaction bet. him and other characters especially Lin Shu and Fe Lui. I have many laughs to this guy.
Consort Jing- This is the first time that I appreciate this kind of character. Jingyans mother was intelligent, gentle and a loving person to him and Lin Shu. She’s not like other consort that can be manipulate. A very graceful mother. I want to be like her actually.. ?
Fei Liu- This young boy will be my favorite bodyguard in dramaland. An outstanding fighter with a childlike attitude but very loyal to su gege.. I think all who watched this drama love him so much..
The other character that I love is the funny YuJin, beautiful Ni Huang, Jing Rui w/ a big heart, the great emperor, a genius physician Lin Chen but I hope he shows in many episode, all the body guards of Lin Shu and Jin Yang… In short all the characters was awesome even the villains like xia jang and xie yu.
Over all it was 11/10. I want to have a separate drama that shows the early life of Lin Shu.. What can I say you need to rewatch this well-crafted, magnificent, awesome drama.. WHY I WATCHED THIS! It’s hard to let go!! ?
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Maybe considered spoiler, so anyone who don't even want to know a single hint about this drama, don't look any further.After I finished this drama, what I like about it is there are no scenes that make me feel heart-wrenching anger (bad kind) or agonizing pain (also bad-kind) [that is if you exclude the main reason of the whole drama]. You can just enjoy how he strategized so brilliantly and completely, letting you feel the anxiety of whether his plotting will succeed or not. My curiosity of how he turn the whole situation around is satisfied too.
I like Fei Liu (simple, good-at-fighting kid beside Mei Chang Su), his scenes are so cute and funny!
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The story kept me going on and on and because each episode is only 45 mins, the time went by and before I knew it, I was on episode 25!
The plot is good, the actors/actresses were superb (villains were vile and the good guys got me cheering for them), action kept going at a good rate, the twists and turns believable - and at times, really caught me out. There were some funny moments as well as sweet romantic interludes, and they were done very tastefully. No nudity or adult scenes, which I applaud - I think often that modern dramas rely too much on sex and violence. I'd recommend my 11 year old daughter to watch this.
I liked the costumes, traditions, scenery and overall "feel". By episode 48, I did start feeling as if the drama was beginning to drag, but the final episodes redeemed the drama somewhat. However, the final episode, I felt, seemed a bit of a letdown. All in all, a good drama!
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do i dare give nirvana in fire a less than perfect score? yes i do.
since 2015 nirvana in fire has been known in dramaland as the BEST C-DRAMA EVER!!!! to both dads and bl fans alike... i struggled for many years to get past the first two episodes and have watched the beginning over ten times with various different people. i literally can repeat verbatim the exact sequence of events in episode 1 because i've seen it so many times. THATS how much i struggle with political intrigue in media res many old dudes talking and plotting...anyway this time i sat down by myself and finally forced myself to binge the whole thing, and though i find the show slow to start, once it gets the ball rolling, it sucks you in quite easily. i think the absolute best thing about this show is specifically the schemes and plots. while i personally prefer the iconic zhen huan zhuan, which is also heavy on the scheming, this show has it beat in how well written and cared for the little plots are. each game/scheme is meticulously designed with a lot of detail, intricacy, and complexity and yet still gives the viewer enough clues to follow along with and even figure it out themselves! it manages to do all of this, keeping the viewer engaged and entertained, without becoming too smart, or taking on some kind of condescending tone (like bbc sherlock which actively mocks its viewers) and getting too elaborate or convoluted. it is smart enough to be impressive, and simple enough to be easily understood, which is what makes it really good writing! this is the kind of writing that can really draw viewers in and immerse them in the plot!
the show does a very good job at very wholly telling the story and themes in a way that perfectly accomplishes what their goals are. not a lot of shows are able to do this successfully. nirvana in fire is a very complete product that wraps up perfectly. unfortunately, though i can recognize this as well thought out writing...... the themes and goals of the series are just not it for me. this is where i have to knock the score down.
first of all in regards to the political system, nirvana in fire is extremely optimistic. this is not inherently a bad thing, but this show specifically seeks to express that positive change is possible WITHIN the system. and that the system can be changed by replacing all the bad guys with good guys. sorry but this is just unrealistic and frankly irresponsible- the oppressive systems that govern us are inherently flawed from their roots. to say that the answer is as simple as just weeding out the corrupt and replacing them with just and righteous people is just..... not right.... don't get me wrong, like i think that it is Good to hope! to write an ending in which you CAN create positive change!! but to say that the system CAN work and does work and you just have to get the right people on the throne.... i just don't agree with that, at all. even at the end of the series the emperor says to mei changsu (paraphrased) "you think that jing wang is different, but he isn't, i wasn't always corrupt either, once you sit on the throne... over time you will change" and i was like 'dang he has a point' and mei changsu is like 'no you're wrong' IAHJKDJDLFKD LMFAO like the thesis of the show is literally the antithesis to my beliefs. i know that the story is a story, but the POINT of stories and narratives is that they speak to the struggles and experiences of human beings, and if this was made in the modern era then it is meant to speak to modern day people. im sure that watching this was satisfying to a chinese audience in many ways that i, an abc, cannot understand, but based on my own values i just can't agree.
next up is both mei changsu's character arc as well as the themes associated with it. i'm gonna go ahead and say that mei changsu's character arc is specifically tied to masculinity. the person who lin shu was, was the chinese vision of ideal young manhood: noble, righteous, loyal, honest, brave, a warrior. not only was he a hero, he was also a talented genius. they literally wrote him to be like a storybook character, the picture of upright heroism. with the fall of the chiyan army, lin shu not only lost his clan and almost everyone he loved, he lost something even more important- his masculinity, and in turn, he lost his identity, and was forced to become mei changsu. he lost all of his strength and vitality, he became weak and frail and delicate, losing his martial arts and all of the traditionally masculine traits he had. no longer bright, forthright and honest, he now works from the shadows, he schemes and manipulates, sacrifices people as pawns and is the definition of cold, calculating and deceptive. it is extremely clear from the beginning that mei changsu hates himself, and is ashamed of what he has become. single mindedly dedicated to his goal, he views all of his schemes as sacrifices of his good character in order to attain his end goal. in particular a scene that really struck me was specifically when he had to hurt innocent people in order to expose some bad guy's plots, and one of the women died from the stress and pain. the narrative focuses on HIS pain, as if this was a sacrifice that Had to be made, and that he had to be cold and heartless to attain his goals. the narrative did not accuse him or blame him, instead it asked us to Sympathize with him??? it really rubbed me the wrong way, i hate this manpain kind of shit esp when women are just seen as collateral damage and their deaths are just used for HIS character development.
anyway, the narrative very much says that in order to attain his righteous goal of filling the court with good people, mei changsu had to be the LAST bad guy, and that was his ultimate sacrifice- his own goodness. he will be bad to get the job done so that jing wang doesn't have to sacrifice his character and morals, and can remain good and untainted. when jing wang asks him to be a part of his court when he's emperor, mei changsu actively refuses because he does not want a calculating and scheming person such as himself there. when jing wang tells him he should come out as lin shu and reclaim his former identity, mei changsu resolutely refuses, because he believes that the mei changsu he is now would taint the good memory of lin shu, and that he would rather lin shu have DIED a hero on the battlefield, than become what he has. like???? jfc talk about idealization of the past, and specifically traditional chinese righteous masculinity. the thing is, this is all actually really interesting to me as a character?? the way that both jing wang and nihuang repeatedly still refer to him as 'lin shu gege' and 'xiao shu,' the way that they still see him as lin shu and maintain that he IS lin shu and want him to continue to live as lin shu, much to mei changsu's reluctance, is really interesting. esp when compared to his doctor friend who says 'i don't know who lin shu is, i ONLY know mei changsu.' the show also shows that he does have so much value AS mei changsu, not lin shu, and is lovable, and kind, someone who is a good leader to his sect and has many loyal followers who admire him. they showed that he was a good brother to fei liu, and that he could be playful too. jing wang specifically came to care and love him for who he was even before he found out he was lin shu. literally everyone loves him SO much, everyone goes to bat for him and would do anything for him, jing wang, nihuang and meng zhi are ready to start a rebellion and sacrifice hundreds of lives for him at the drop of a HAT. to me, all of this seemed to be pointing at a thesis that goes something like "the past that which is romanticized can never be returned to- the dream of idyllic heroic masculinity does not exist, but it is okay to accept yourself for not living up to it, and who you are now is valuable and deserves life and love" which could've been cool...................................... jokes on me i am the clown... INSTEAD, mei changsu literally decides that he doesn't want the rest of his life, and goes back to being a soldier on the battlefield and DIES as lin shu the way that he always wanted to. not only did they say that you CAN reclaim your heroic masculinity, they also said that it is worth DYING for!!!! and that his literal reward for all of his pain, his sacrifices, and his efforts, was the honorable and glorious death in battle!! literally, wtf!!!!!!! mei changsu didn't learn ANYTHING!! and then jing wang names an army after him to honorably commemorate him forever and this is all shown as a great thing! like mei changsu's doctor and everyone else was begging him to live the rest of his life in peace and go on fucking vacation which is what he actually deserved! just like.... imagine if the storyline was actually kind to who mei changsu had become, and allowed him a character arc of self acceptance, that said, ok you can do this one last thing for who you once were 13 years ago, and afterwards you can be free, and live as the real life person that you are, not as a romanticized idea.............. what a disappointment and what a shitty final message.
i find pretty much none of the other characters are well written, nor do they even have character arcs or much depth at all. rather they generally tend to just be very one note symbols of righteousness, or corruption, or whatever. The emperor was generally pretty interesting and a good character and I think that Princess Liyang also had the potential to be interesting too if she was given more time. that's pretty much it?? yu wang also was pretty interesting in his storyline as a prince who was extremely favored and yet still held at a distance and never given the throne.... couldve been an interesting father-son relationship but then that devolves into lazy information reveal about his backstory and heritage that was also quite disappointing. and jing wang and nihuang who are also supposed to be main characters get pretty much nothing??? extremely simple and one note?? in fact nihuang literally is not in 3/4 of the show???
this show has also been sold to me as extremely emotional and tear jerking and i gotta say..... it was really good at Doing the technical storytelling thing of making emotional moments, but it really failed at deliver depth, if that makes sense. a good example of what i'm talking about is how mei changsu works very hard to keep all of his emotions repressed under a mask. in all of his scenes w jing wang there is a brutal cold and technical formality where he is holding back every single bit of warmth and genuine personality. smiles are rare, any talk that isn't politics doesn't happen either, it's 'jing wang this' and 'dianxia that' all very formal speech. and then jing wang is being stupid and about to get himself killed and ruin all their plans, mei changsu finally screams his real name at him and berates him for being an idiot. the emotional release of this scene... super effective!!!! very compelling and engaging!! mei changsu finally lets down his formal walls and allows himself to be human for a second! very well done at making the audience really feel his frustration, fear, desperation, and how deeply he actually feels! mei changsu is actually super emotional and by depriving us of this emotion, it allows for the moment to hit so much harder when they finally give it to us. unfortunately........ all of this happened...... not because of some careful writing of mei changsu and jing wang's characters, not because they wrote a genuine conflict between the two of them, which they have a wealth of a basis for......... but because of..... misinformation...... that the enemy laid ....... as a trap to sow discord................ do u all see what i mean by the writer being technically proficient at making the audience feel things, but didn't bother to give them real character arcs and complex relationship arcs, beyond jing wang eventually trusts mei changsu, and a conflict that would actually develop the characters instead of just being like jing wang is a fucking idiot??? there's depth but it feels really shallow, and just doesn't go very far.
plus most of the emotional moments are just the work of some sad glances and a mumbled 'you remind me of someone i used to know' combined with a swell in the musical score....... i'm sorry it's just not cutting it for me when the very excellent soundtrack is carrying the emotional work of the show. it's that and sentimental objects like the egg sized pearl! all of it just feels like cheap shortcuts. even though mei changsu and jing wang's relationship is supposed to be the emotional core of the show, there really just wasn't nearly enough depth, complexity and development considering what they're set up as... don't even get me started on nihuang she is literally just not even there... this is literally mei changsu's love interest and there is nothing happening beyond her continuously seeing him as lin shu, which is not explored at all. so disappointing!! also fucked up that banruo is villainized for wanting to avenge her people and country but mei changsu is a hero for working within the system instead of destroying it LMFAOO
tldr: the show IS technically very good in many ways, well written plots, successful in their goals and in conveying their themes in a whole and complete manner. unfortunately it falls short on the character and relationship writing, and i also just personally don't agree with any of their themes. i understand why ppl see it as an impressive introductory cdrama, but ultimately its aesthetics of being a high budget, very serious, very political, high quality drama can't be backed up by enough actual depth. i have seen a LOT of frankly, very low budget, very trashy shows, that were a lot more fun than this and ultimately had something better to say.
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The drama really lays on the 3 B’s of excellence: Birth Secrets, Bromances and Babelicious Bods. Beautiful cinematography (would that be a 4th *B*?), excellent writing, and carefully crafted suspense kept me on the edge of my seat. The knots in my stomach tightened as each episode led to some unexpected climax. I would say more, but the guide says “No Spoilers”. For more, see my MDL Notes. Was this review helpful to you?
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A brilliant masterpiece
This is one of the best TV dramas I've watched, up there with Sherlock, Wolf Hall and The Crown. More thought-provoking and less violent with hardly any sex scenes, I much prefer this to Game of Thrones. The story, writing, direction, acting, music, cinematography and over-all production are top-notch.Hu Ge is flawless as political strategist Mei Changsu/Su Zhe who is bent on restoring his family's honor as well as those of his much-admired cousin Prince Qi and 70,000 soldiers of the Chiyan Army who were wrongfully accused of rebellion thirteen years ago. The rest of the characters, notably Prince Jingyan (Wang Kai), Duchess Mu Nihuang (Liu Tao), the Emperor of Great Liang (Ding Yong Dai) and Mei Changsu's young but capable bodyguard Fei Liu (Leo Wu), are as compelling. Watching Mei Changsu navigate the political arena in the imperial court is like watching a grandmaster playing chess. His metamorphosis from vibrant young marshal Lin Shu to a frail, soft-spoken but formidable strategist unrelenting in his search for justice is awe-inspiring but heart-breaking as well, such that even just hearing the beautiful opening and ending themes makes me tear up.
The first few times I watched the opening sequence, I was underwhelmed, wishing that, in addition to butterfly wings, there were also dramatic images of people to complement the stunning music. Then I realized there ARE human forms, I just had to be more observant. Turns out, the opening sequence is more beautiful than I could imagine. Since then, every time I watch it, I would try to find more hidden images, much like discovering forms in clouds. Another delightful feature is the original dialogue that I understand is poetic, making me want to learn Mandarin. These easter eggs show how meticulously crafted this gem is.
The emotional impact is not forced but grabs the viewers organically, from the story, acting, music and other elements that subtly add to the power of each scene. I cried almost the whole finale episode, even though there were hardly overly dramatic scenes. In fact, I think it's because the emotional expressions are muted that I felt the urge to release pent-up emotions. Even now, I still tear up whenever I remember the scene where Lin Shu bowed and silently wept in his family's ancestral hall after he successfully restored the family's honor.
It is a testament to the brilliance of the storytelling that a sucker for happily-ever-after endings like myself cannot fault the ending. While a fully fairytale ending would have been inconsistent with the tone of the story, this may be considered as having a happy ending, one that Mei Changsu/Su Zhe/Lin Shu would have approved of, having been able to give his all in the service of truth, justice and country.
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Here's hoping there will be more dramas like this one in the future.
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The best C-drama probably until the end of time
I've written a review for my other favorite, TTEOTM, and decided I should write one about this one (I watched it years ago).If TTEOTM was a culmination of arcs and ideas that were exploited satisfyingly (albeit with some plot problems), this one seemed to start at a single point and expand outward relentlessly from there. The pacing is intense and substantive, the story is complex and masterful, and the acting is nothing short of wonderful. Very rarely do elements come together to form what could be an alternate universe or a chapter in history... Nirvana in Fire manages this, and is probably thus one of the best dramas I've personally ever watched.
Where to even start? Probably the story, the most wonderful thing about this drama. Although this meets the eye as the typical revenge plot with an ambitious strategist as the protagonist, there's so much nuance and many dynamics under the surface level that truly connect the dots together. How Lin Shu's history is intertwined with the present for many characters including Jingyan is beautiful, and the little twists and schemes involved (completely impossible but riveting) from how Mei Chang Su deals with Nihuang's suitor contest to how his aid towards Prince Yu helps Prince Jing is magnificent. Not only are the details critical and brilliant, they play a tremendous role in how the drama ultimately develops. Despite the numerous arcs, etc. that are present in the drama, they still fit into the narrative on how Lin Shu achieves his revenge goal. The writing in between, including the dialogue and script, excellently achieves this effect (not sure how the countless translated captions fare in corroborating the intent of the original script... watched this in Mandarin). Cleverness and wit are woven into every aspect of this drama and its characters' motivations (they all make sense given the time, personality, etc.). How the drama doesn't seem forced (besides its pacing at times) as well as the plot's fluidity is really impressive storytelling; it's also what separates this from similarly good Wuxia/Xianxia that doesn't reach its heights.
That being said, its complexity makes elements of the plot sometimes difficult to remember beyond the initial watching. That makes it satisfying to rewatch, and every rewatch I still find myself astounded by the numerous twists and ideas present. Given this, know that I watch a drama for the ideas and cleverness more so than the execution/logical sense (this one for the most part fulfills both, but there are some plot holes you find if you think carefully enough), and therefore I'd probably enjoy gripping stories much more than most/prioritize them over other things to make/break a drama.
I guess that's enough time spent on the story. I think the second thing to note here is the acting.
To be fair, there isn't much character development in most of the characters more than a change of motivations/desires, etc. I do think the characters fit perfectly with the setting and situation, but for those looking for those coming-of-age/character development arc dramas, this one is probably less so your thing... I'd push you to TTEOTM to see Tantai Jin if you wanted to see character development. The characters are mostly well developed already in this drama, and because of the abundance of motivations and schematics, it's hard to follow individual characters throughout (even the protagonist).
Given this, I don't think this drama would be a rave review for any individual actor. Instead, the entire cast does a great job portraying their parts to really make this story work. From Xia Jiang to Xie Yu (antagonists along the way), the antagonists of this drama are played amazingly. Their micro expressions, desperation, and different emotions are played realistically and believably for the plights they find themselves in. I do think a special shoutout has to go to Victor Huang who plays Prince Yu; his scenes are done beautifully to portray a pompous and crafty prince who eventually devolves into resignation. Additionally, the characters really do interact with the story and plot's purposes, something that I find often missing from a drama. The protagonists are played similarly well, with Mei Chang Su (Hu Ge) displaying the depth needed for a sick strategist who needs to finish one final task. He did remind me of Tantai Jin (Til the End of the Moon), but this one is significantly less dramatic of a portrayal (I think it's fair for the role Mei Chang Su plays) and therefore also less memorable. It's great acting nonetheless, and other protagonists like Consort Jing do really come alive with the acting of a splendid (and very expensive) cast.
Finally, I'll talk about the OST a little. I personally quite enjoyed the song 红颜旧 sung by Liu Tao (plays Mu Nihuang) and think the majority of the songs are quite pleasant. I did enjoy their melodies although I oftentimes found the singing subpar (that's okay, I do think it's more representative of the cast when sung by the cast). It's one of the great OSTs I've heard, despite having few songs. I wouldn't watch it for the OST (like I would Love Between Fairy and Devil), but it's kind of a bonus :)
Definitely the best drama I've ever watched and will be coming back to it over and over again.
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My first review for my top drama
Seriously the best Chinese drama I have seen so far. All dramas I watch will be compared to this one. I never rewatch dramas but I made an exception for this one. And after all these years it’s still awesome.Story
Enjoyable story keeps you hooked till the end. There could have been a little bit more romance, not necessarily for the ML but in general. The story is not too complicated but very interesting and well written. I didn’t find any unnecessary plotlines rather I want to know more about what happened before the drama starts and what happens after it. Season 2 sadly doesn’t really connect to the end of season 1.
Acting/Cast
Top notch acting and very well-chosen cast. The characters in general are a joy to watch and unique in their own way. You can tell it’s a veteran cast with lots of experience.
Music
I personally don’t pay much attention to music/OST so I can’t really judge but I certainly can’t complain about it.
Rewatch Value
First drama I have ever rewatched and will probably rewatch in the future.
Overall
A must watch for “historic/costume drama”-lovers and if not, should at least give it a chance in my opinion.
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Just WOW - the hype is real
I'm quite late to the bandwagon, but am so glad that I gave this masterpiece a chance! I've watched many dramas over the years and I have to say this is probably one of the most well written dramas I've seen. The acting and storyline are amazing! I'm very pleased with the cast because they really brought the characters to life.Mei Chang Su is the most beautiful tragic hero, and is a someone who I could not stop admiring episode after episode. His wit and intelligence never failed to amaze me. Despite the mental, physical and emotional pains he had to endure, he is blessed to have loyal and loving friends and comrades. The highlight of this drama is definitely the relationship between Mei Chang Su and the rest of the main characters. The BROMANCE is real yall. I love his bond with Fei Liu, Meng Zhi, Jingyan, Li Chen, etc. There is a bit of romance, but that was not the focal point of the drama (which I very much appreciated). Honestly, the story would have done well even if they decided to forego the romance.
I will say that this drama will require time and patience to watch because it is a slow burn with lots of details, so your full attention is required to really appreciate the story. The rewatch value would be high because I'm sure I missed a few details the first time watching. My only complaint was the way the last episode played out, as there were some things I would have changed (e.g. the filler scenes). Otherwise, I really enjoyed it.
Nirvana in Fire will definitely go down in history as a classic. Thank you to the writer, cast and crew for such a beautiful series.
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One of the absolute BEST stories out there
Nirvana in Fire is one drama I hold in the highest esteem. I watched it 4-5 years ago and I definitely think this should be a classic. The story is just amazing and so well thought out. The characters were wonderful and the traits they promote in the series make you wish that these characters exist in real life.The pace in the beginning is slow but the setting is so beautiful that it doesn't take away from the drama. I also think it was necessary to set the scene. The acting was flawless. I worried and cared about so many of the characters. Fei Liu is just adorable. The loyalty, the virtue and honour of the characters are so inspiring.
I know series like this is not for everyone, and I'm not even the type to like this kind of series but this is the highest rated series of all time in my mind. This is a MUST WATCH.
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