@AH thanks. That was a good read.peng-peng:
You're welcome!
Jing is a descendant of 9 tails fox but is he one?
It doesn't seem totally clear to me.
He never reverts to a "true fox form" like the nine-tailed fox that captured XY when she was young, who called himself a demon. But he does have his nine tails, until TSH cut off seven of them.
Maybe a true nine-tailed fox demon starts out as a fox first (their true form) like other demons and has to manifest a humanoid form, while a part-deity, part-nine-tailed-fox person would be born into a humanoind form (with no true fox form) but would have nine fox tails like TSJ has?
I did not understand Jing and Houe fight because Hou was using a tiger spirit or something?
I had the impression that TSH felt contempt for the fox aspect of their shared Tushan lineage, as TSJ was often praised by their grandmother for having certain traits (like the calamatiy foresight) that marked him sort of as "chosen" or favoured to be the next clan leader? And TSH also seemed to feel contempt for the common traits of the Tushan fox lineage, like prefering to avoid direct conflict.
So maybe he chose to manifest an astral tiger, instead of an astral fox, because that suited his personality and preferences better?
I do not even understand why Jing 's mother selected the wife her son from 1 of the slowest clan. The main wife . Honestly I was baffled by her choice.
It does seem like an odd choice.
Maybe TSJ's mother hoped that FFYY's world class archery skills might help protect TSJ from TSH? Which... given how things ended between FFFYY and TSH... she sort of did, but definitely not the way TSJ's mother would have hoped.
Fair point. I thought the Yellow Emperor's warning was more focused on how CX was going to handle things, or potentially mismanage them, after killing TSJ. Like if the truth came out about CX being behind TSJ's death, or even if rumours spread about it, that really would have caused chaos and destablized things.AH :
To make real world comparisons for easier understanding, think of Tushan Clan like a global conglomerate company, with all kinds of businesses on a global scale - in their case, across both nations in Dahuang or later just one Dahuang. When power struggle occurs in or for such a company, it affects livelihoods, GDP to the country etc
It will affect the Chenrong army aversely because of the personal connection between their CEO and their General but it will affect Cangxuan's empire even more because of destabilized economy.
CX planned it and it was such a shocking revelation later to everyone involved, I doubt anyone outside of the situation will ever guess it, so the rumors spreading is very unlikely.
Tushan Jing could guess it because of his intellect and he actually noticed things about Cangxuan before that he overlooked like Xiaoyao did. Xiangliu was not sure but he could compute the possibilities - I don't know if XL ever guessed Cangxuan loved Xiaoyao romantically or only thought of her as a sister, since he lacked direct interaction with Cangxuan and had no access to those data sets.
Also since CX planned it all, I think he already had a plan set in place to put into motion once it happened. He probably didn't even need Xiaoyao to ask him, it was for the best for his empire for him that the Tushan Clan is not picked apart by the other families.
Grumpy Witch:Sunbath12:
Essentially, the whole sequence of XY finding out CX was responsible for Jing's death and the subsequent scenes of her killing herself are a hallucination/dream sequence that the Yellow Emperor puts CX under to warn him about what is inside his heart. So, it is Xinyue who colludes with Hou to have Jing killed in this script.
If they need to condense things and if censorship is another issue, I can see why this would be a route to take. But it forces the rest of the story (CX and XY's last scenes in the novel and Jing's final words to CX) to change - and I think for the worse. The emotional impact and complexity are lost.
thanks ? true.
Dramaqueen:
Oh wow this would REALLY suck if true. they will be taking all the substance from CX's character wtf!
yes... so sad if the changes were true, im not buying it but if it is what was already filmed and edited, idk... maybe we can just find some reason to agree
@AH
Topic about XL killing XZ or FL?
For me, I am 100% sure its XZ.
Because it's directly said in the context and there is nothing more of info on saying what it's said before was misunderstood. NOPE.
In chapter 6..
It is directly saying to readers who was XL target through ZX. It is even more of a confirm with another bodygurad getting hit with the arrow as well.
We have already read ZX was XY target from the start.
Well one of the highlight of chapter 15 is the assasination attempt on ZX. If XL had not care for XY(we give him full credit for it, his caring for XY) ZX would be dead.
Things are a bit different here though. Because we see FFB/XL hanging out with one of Xy&Zx' cousin. So we could say he's also spying on Xuan Yuan royals.. thats how we could say he knew how, where to find and the map to the rations and weapon from Xy&Zx' uncle.
So whether to kill ZX, we could think XL might have to balance or see the fight&conflicts between Zx and other Xuan Yuan princes fighting first and probably need to what would benefit his side of army.
And yes we also gave credits to XL/FFB.. we could him having good time with XY. I think it eased his loneliness. So i think he could be in vulnerable moments to do something harsh.
.....
.......
Umm .well Feng Long was Xuan Yuan general that was of Shen Nong original.
But .ohh.. I have a feeling that you dont want to be serious on Yellow Emperor words. But rather see it in your own way....Tong Hua written words for ZX thinking.
Feng Long (Shen Nong origin) death cut Gong Gong and his army from support of Middle Plains completely. So Gong Gong did not care about Middle Plains at all ? which he might have still be getting support from
And he did not even care about the Victory but wont surrenders at all cost...even though it meant the tragedies for his soldiers families..
Isnt it wierd, those Shen Nong soldiers, who were so attached to their land which is Shen Nong in middle plain, would be better off with killing Feng Long(Shen Nong), as to show off their cut tie with most important family of middle plains of the time , which is not a favor thinking of middle plains, but proudly died at the hands of Gao Xing(under Xuan Yuan) general Ru So.
They(Gong Gong group) sounded to be fascinated hatred from others indeed!
It appeared at once like that in my thinking.
But any way, except for some other thinking.. evidence of XL killing target FL is weak to me.
What Yellow Emperor said...
He did not talk about anything about rumors or face losing. It only talks about the Tushan business throughout wilderness affecting the whole foundation of Kingdom by the loss of Clan Leader. CX must really work hard on everything.
As for why XL keeping Jing for 6 and half years, it is not written.
That shell made by Jin Tian is not stated how long to make. Its true the special bow for XY took so many years to make. But Jin Tian did not just sell products that had to pre order only.
Besides, XL was really sincere and purely only to help YaoJing.. ..he could have come to warn about XZ to XY earlier and let her meet Jing earlier, just because of having to wait for some product is not good reason from keeping away if he did not have any other reason for doing so.
Well one of the highlight of chapter 15 is the assasination attempt on ZX.Winny24:
Yes. The ~100 year timeframe I mentioned was measuring between the almost-attempted assassination of CX by FFB in chapter 15 and the assassination of Feng Long by XL in chapter 46.
Feng Long was Xuan Yuan general that was of Shen Nong origin
Yes.
Feng Long (Shen Nong origin) death cut Gong Gong and his army from support of Middle Plains completely. So Gong Gong did not care about Middle Plains at all ?
In the alternative possible interpretation I described, it was quite the opposite. Based on the logic presented in the leaked script, it seemed like Gong Gong cared deeply about the people of the Middle Plains and wanted to spare them / prevent them from becoming embroiled in the remnant army's final fight to their deaths.
The leaked script for S2 (which, of course, may or may not be legitimate - but the logic of it could potentially apply the novel whether or not the script is real) also includes a scene where Gong Gong (or rather Hong Jiang) explains (through a vague metaphor) that his army's perseverance and insistance on fighting until death, even when there was no longer any hope of ever restoring Shengnong, served a hidden practical purpose to help the former citizens of Shengnong that continued to live in the Middle Plains in one way (as much as Feng Long's father's governance from within Xuan Yuan helped them in another way). The idea being that as long as the Shengnong remnant army was able to persist and convince the world that they would never give up, the Yellow Emperor would not persecute and mistreat the people of the Middle Plains out of fear that they might eventually be driven to support and join forces with the Shengnong remnant army to the point where it would become large enough and powerful enough to pose a real threat to Xuan Yuan once more.
But by the time chapter 46 finally rolled around, even that role really was no longer necessary. Xing Yue (a descendant of the Shengong royal family and a descendant of the Chishui family, one of the Four Great Clans of the Middle Plains) was Xuan Yuan's Empress. And CX had moved the capital to Shengong Mountain and made a point of treating people from the Middle Plains well, including giving men like Feng Long (his brother-in-law and right-hand man) the opportunity to obtain the highest positions and pursue the greatest military achievements. And other Middle Plains families had been encouraged to intermarry with Xuan Yuan families so that the lines between the former kingdoms were becoming blurred. So after 400 years of fighting as a remnant army (and many more years of fighting in the great war between Shengnong and Xuan Yuan before that) the Shengnong remanant army could finally bring their fight to an end (not surrendering, but fighting until the last of them died on the battlefield as they swore to do - which the novel describes as the best ending for them / something that would be a release for them) and rest assured that the people of the Middle Plains would not suffer as a result.
Ep 17 (S2 Ep25 scenes 10, 11)liddi:
At the main Shen Nong encampment, ShenNong Yi (Feng Long's father) was paying full respects to Hong Jiang.
SNY (bowing): Uncle.
HJ: Take a seat.
SNY (nervous): Uncle, I have shamelessly come to visit you because...
HJ (interrupting): You don't need to say more. Back then I was filled with contempt when I heard that you had surrendered to the Xuan Yuan king. Your father rather died than bent his knee, his body totally obliterated, yet he had a coward for a son who brought shame to his reputation.
Ashamed, ShenNong Yi kept silent.
HJ: Later, I saw how you endured humiliation and became the lord of Zhi Yi city. Under your administration, the people of the Middle Plains who suffered terribly from the war regained a new lease on life, and I felt that perhaps your choice seemed justified. Prioritise the people over the land, the identity of the ruler is unimportant. What matters are the people.
The acknowledgement of his intentions made ShenNong Yi tear up from aggrieved sadness and emotional joy.
SNY: Now the Great Wilderness is at peace, His Majesty is sage and benevolent. I beg you to put down your heavy burden and surrender.
HJ (smile): When Shen Nong kingdom was destroyed and we were called to surrender, my answer was to fight to the death. Now, my answer remains the same!
SNY (grieved): Why? The destruction of Shen Nong kingdom happened hundreds of years ago. The descendants of the people of the Middle Plains long have no ties to the old kingdom. Why do you still persist on persevering to the death when you approve of my way?
HJ: A Yi, your choice to surrender was not wrong, but neither is my choice. (gaze at the large tree outside the window). Roots grow downwards, while branches grow upwards. The roots go into the darkness while the branches face the sunlight. Both appear to be in direct contrast, complete opposites, but it is exactly because one faces downward and the other upwards, one in the dark while the other is in the light, that this vibrant tree exists.
ShenNong Yi finally understood, and stared at the great tree, stunned.
HJ: The world needs people who are able to adapt to circumstances and go with the flow; as well as people who adhere to their integrity and will, who would rather die than surrender.
ShenNong Yi was extremely grieved. Hong Jiang said no more, got up and left.
****************
Xiang Liu prepared to send ShenNong Yi off with two vigilant Shen Nong soldiers.
XL: Lord ShenNong, the location of our encampment cannot be exposed, so we can only inconvenience you.
Extremely saddened, ShenNong Yi proceeded to give Xiang Liu a deep bow.
SNY: Please accept my bow.
Xiang Liu immediately stepped aside.
SNY: Although Uncle Hong Jiang consoled me that the roots and branches each has its own place, the world only sees the branches and not the roots; they love the branches that are in full bloom, but do not care about the roots that are covered in filth. All these years, it was exactly because of your unwavering stance that those of us who surrendered were given preferential treatment.
Once again, ShenNong Yi insisted on bowing to express his gratitude. This time, Xiang Liu did not avoid, calmly accepting ShenNong Yi's thanks and guilt-ridden regrets.
If Gong Gong cared about the welfare of the people of the Middle Plains more than victory, then there would be two reasons why killing Feng Long would further his interests more than killing CX.
First, killing CX would risk plunging the whole world (including the Middle Plains) into chaos and war.
Second, at the beginning of chapter 46, the Middle Plains families still had strong ties with Gong Gong and the Shengnong remnant army. Although they did not get involved when the Shengnong remnant army was maintaining its 400 year stalemate with the Xuan Yuan army, if the Shengnong remnant army seemed like its existence was really under threat, the Middle Plains families might feel obligated to get involved and to side with Gong Gong and the remnant army. But when XL (Gong Gong's adoptive son and a leader of the Shengnong remant army) killed Feng Long (the leader of one of the Four Great Clans of the Middle Plains) those ties were fully severed and there was no risk that the Middle Plains families might be harmed as a result of becoming embroiled in the Shengnong remnant army's final fight.
Chapter 46:
Xiao Yao raised her silver bow and pulled back an arrow aimed at Xiang Liu. “Gong Gong lives for his fallen kingdom and stubbornly refuses to surrender, that’s something admirable! But people cannot fight against the inevitable, now Xuan Yuan, Sheng Nong, and Gao Xing have all united, each of the tribes, clans, and families are coexisting peacefully. If you kill Zhuan Xu then the entire vast wilderness will be launched into disarray and war will begin again. Hundreds of thousands of people will be swept up in the devastation. Is this what Gong Gong wants in order to cling to his loyalty, be true to himself at the cost of the peace of the world?”
Xiang Liu smiled a sardonic grin. “If I kill Zhuan Xu, then it means the vast wilderness isn’t yet united. How can you say we’re going up against the inevitable?”
“You know in your heart whether what I’m saying is right or not!”
...
Feng Long was the Chi Sui clan leader, and also the son of Sheng Nong nobility Little Zhu Rong. His death left a huge burden for Zhuan Xu to handle so he immediately met with the Yellow Emperor to discuss the matter.
The Yellow Emperor said, “Some things are both a curse and a blessing, if you handle this well it can be both. Feng Long’s unexpected death, aside from your personal sadness, may not be a bad thing for the future of the kingdom.”
Zhuan Xu paused to think about it and understood what the Yellow Emperor meant. Gong Gong was the Sheng Nong kingdom general and still had strong ties with many Middle Plains families. If it was détente then no one would need to pick sides, but now that it was the final war then many Middle Plains families might feel torn on who to support. But with Feng Long’s death at the hand of Gong Gong’s subordinate, the Chi Sui clan and the Sheng Nong tribe would never ever forgive Gong Gong. Now all the Middle Plains families would stand behind them as well. So with Feng Long’s death, it actually severed all remaining ties between Gong Gong and the Middle Plains completely.
Zhuan Xu bowed to the Yellow Emperor. “Thank Grandfather for your wisdom, I know what to do now.”
He did not talk about anything about rumors or face losing. It only talks about the Tushan business throughout wilderness affecting the whole foundation of Kingdom by the loss of Clan Leader. CX must really work hard on everything.
The Yellow Emperor told CX that consequences might arise if he did not handle the situation well. Since the Yellow Emperor understood that CX was behind TSJ's death, it seems to me that CX handling the situation would certainly include making sure that he covered his tracks well and didn't let anyone spread the idea or even suspect that he was behind TSJ's death.
As for why XL keeping Jing for 6 and half years, it is not written.
True. The text does not give us an express explination.
That shell made by Jin Tian is not stated how long to make. Its true the special bow for XY took so many years to make. But Jin Tian did not just sell products that had to pre order only.
True. But the text does tell us that the shell was custom made for the blood jewel. And the text tells us that it was made by the Jintian family. And the text tells us that TSJ had been missing for six years. So XL could only have decided to make the blood jewel (the decision that would lead him to commission the custom shell) six years earlier at the most. And once it was commissioned, we can only guess at how long it would have taken to make. If a very special bow took 35 years, how long would it take to make a custom shell? Maybe 1/7th of that time... 5 years? Who knows?
Besides, XL was really sincere and purely only to help YaoJing.. ..he could have come to warn about XZ to XY earlier and let her meet Jing earlier, just because of having to wait for some product is not good reason from keeping away if he did not have any other reason for doing so.
Helping YaoJing reunite as soon as possible does not seem to be one of his goals, quite understandably IMO.
Giving YaoJing the best possible shot at a real happy ending (and a chance at a life of worry-free happiness) does seem to have been one of his goals. Saving TSJ was an important part of that. Having XY figure out the truth that CX was behind TSJ's death was also part of that, as CX posed a threat to her happiness and happy ending.
TSJ was woken up at the perfect time to acheive those goals. CX was forced to let go of his iron grip on XY and TSJ arrived in time to stop XY from becoming the Royal Mother. Assuming that it even was possible for TSJ and XY to get together a few months or years sooner, not getting to do so would be a small price to pay for removing a serious threat to their long-term happiness together.
Another goal that XL had was to shield XY from the impact of his death. That meant doing things like hiding the fact that he was involved in saving TSJ, making XY believe he had no feelings for her, pushing her to cut ties with him, erasing the memories of him that she saved in her mirror, and breaking the bug connection between them so that she would not die when he died.
XL needed to secretly take many steps to acheive all of those goals before he died. And he managed to succeed in completing all of those steps while also leading an army in its final campaign in a fight to their death. Personally, I thought he managed it very well.
@AH
So it is the way u see things... but theres no evidence to support clearly to it.. in some of the points..
Yes hes involving saving TSJ.
If what you think about XL making XY believe he had no feelings for her..no its not just that hes making her hate him. Because he showed her he would use their connection to kill her brother..as if making sure she sees he just used her to kill...it is as to making her feel shes so foolish to have hang out with him before. So that he could use her...
About memories in the mirror, 1 one is her making fun of him 2. is a film of him going along the under ocean as she seems to fantascise with the scenary.. we could see shes curious about what kind of creature he is. (I dont know some XL think any kind of romantic ...with those memories) Xy could not even know even when he deleted them...all she know is when he told her to do so..it is a bold sharp cutting of the relationship as not to have even in a memory as if he decides for them since they could not be anything (i was even thinking why he even try to CPR her in chapter 13).... was disappointed with her enough to let her swam in deep ocean..the whole night that she even did not want into play in sea for a time..XL had that temper..that give me a feeling that since XY is going for another man,..their relationship could not the kind...then it rather be nothing.. he will surely go out of her memory.
Oki XL has 9 lives ...will hard for him to die., however he still can die, she has only one life.. so its more risky for her.. he only let it go when he's sure its really the end for him.
Yes hes secretly doing a lot but his intention we could not see in details..he wanted XY to well of for sure.. but his actions are as he did not care about the sentimental connection between them ..and not hesitate to use them for his other goal as well ... he will keep her alive of course.
It seemed he managed well.. HE DO IT ALL THROUGH RISKY WAYS! What confidence is that ! ..is there any lines saying he could see future... He did not tell what he would do ... in chapter 48.. if Ar Bi and the other choose to attack him (because he did not explain anything) ... things might not end well..well if he could tell future so hes already aiming that XY kill ZX and herself ?? Or in the way she will kill herself ? What if its something she made sure hes truely dead...killed herself in more crueler way ...he might not be able to save her ?? Or what if she was killed off by the guards.?
And what if Jing could not make it to before XY becoming Royal Mother.?
Hes already knowing these when giving her hints who's behind Jing's death.??
I even have a feeling that him giving her off the info is because hes angry from her saying of killing gong gong if he killed ZX. Xy cannot kill him and XL cannot kill Xy.. it seems even like he's even intendly telling to deal the conflicts that will hurt her emotionally by knowing her beloved killed another beloved?? Xy had suffered enough ..why he thought she could deal with all these harsh emotion if he has the guts and 9 brains to think .. XY may get hurt if he ever show off his emotion and that not to suffer that sentimental emotion so he erased all the memories for her?? (As some XL fan said)... how..
Im sorry ... with my common sense and reading more in details..I could not take him selfless at all.. since Im not you.. i wont be able to think or see the way you do..
Thats all for now..
I do not know why we would think XL did not intend to kill CX. Is there any facts to XL thinking that? NO!!
Hi Winny, AH laid out the scenario that there was an opportunity for XL to kill CX . I'll quote it below:
- "XL had the world-reknowned archery skills of the Fangfeng family and (as XY demonstrated in chapter 44, when she used the archery skills that he taught her) they can shoot arrows with highly unusual trajectories. XL also had the advantage of catching CX by surprise, shooting from above, and shooting from relatively close range. "
It boils down to this: XL had the skills and timing/positional advantage to kill CX.
To respond to your statement: " I still did not find XL attempt to kill CX in chapter 46 as his love for XY",
Regardless of the circumstances then, CX remains XY's cousin , and holds a significant place in XY's life, and XL knew that. It would contradict what XL has been doing for XY, which is ensuring her life is happy and free of worries.
As for Gong Gong's interests, IMO, it seemed like Gong Gong's goal wasn't so much about doing whatever it took to achieve victory over Xuan Yuan as it was about never breaking his oaths (a key part of his character that is highlighted in Once Promised), including never surrendering.
One of the oaths he made in Once Promised was to never pursue the throne. So if his remnant army somehow miraculously did defeat Xuan Yuan and restore Shengnong, his character-defining absolute adherance to his oaths would mean that he could not become the Flame Emperor of that restored Shengnong Kingdom. And there were pretty much no other viable candidates for that position (an issue that existed to a lesser degree even before Shengnong was conquored, when Gong Gong made his oath, and contributed to Shengnong's demise).
I did not know Gong2's background story, thanks for sharing it.
HJ: A Yi, your choice to surrender was not wrong, but neither is my choice. (gaze at the large tree outside the window). Roots grow downwards, while branches grow upwards. The roots go into the darkness while the branches face the sunlight. Both appear to be in direct contrast, complete opposites, but it is exactly because one faces downward and the other upwards, one in the dark while the other is in the light, that this vibrant tree exists.
This is a beautiful metaphor.
I'm trying hard to understand Gong2's reasoning. Loyalty to one's country and honor/righteousness were the central tenets of Confucianism during ancient times in China. Honor was crucial for the people of the Middle Plains, particularly given their status as the defeated faction.
However, I can't help but feel devastated by their decision to fight to the last person. It is truly tragic.
So given all of those factors, I'm not totally sure, one way or the other, whether XL really did intend to kill CX in chapter 46 (it's definitely a possibility) or if it was a pretense, and Feng Long was the real target all along (also seems possible to me).
It does leave room for interpretation regarding XL's intentions. Both possibilities seem plausible to me.
It feels like one of those parts of the story where Tong Hua included certain details and left certain things vague so that a case could be made for either interpretation instead of giving us readers a super clear-cut answer.
Yes, I agree, ambiguity adds depth to the story, making it more thought-provoking.
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