START-UP rants, discussions, facts, ANYTHING

@Kimsamsoom.

Of course it wasn't nice. It wasn't satisfying, either. Universal second lead fate.  

The fact is, Start-up isn't really a bad drama. It's entertaining, there's a lot in it to enjoy, but the problem with it is that it disappointed.  We expected something other than a typical story, but no. By usual romcom standards it's a very good drama, but that was not what it promised to be in its first episodes. 

 Kimsamsoom:

Personally I wanted him to move away. Being forced to be in the same company with the woman who I consider my first love is absolute torture. And I imagine, NDS and SDM during that one year are holding hands every day, even more torture.

Also I didn't think it wasn't fair that HJP didn't even get time to grieve, within a span of a few days, he was expected to be best bros with NDS, and force to sandbox and mentor them further.

THIS..... GOD it always felt like a low blow whenever they turned to jipyung and said 'put your feelings aside and give me your honest opinion' and then he has to work by their side as a mentor.... cant imagine it didnt sting

 Kimsamsoom:

Then to later have to beg NDS for his investment, they could at least have left HJP with some shred of dignity.

the dignity tvn gave was.... him taking a personal stance to finance an organization meant to help orphans and their start ups.... which still felt odd given that tvn never wallowed too much on the fact that he was an orphan (which i didnt mind, just that i was genuinely surprised when they played this card)

 Kimsamsoom:

Also I really didn't like how none of the pictures included WIJ or HJP. I mean, even one photo with all of them would have been nice.

true :( its almost as if they cut him out of their entire history when his advice, regardless of how harsh it was, was needed... dalmi said it herself but i guess she's too busy holding hands in the work place :p

 Kimsamsoom:

The way this writer needs to give the ML the most perfect ending possible is a little disappointing. The ending of Start Up is more cloyingly saccharine than any Disney ending, and that is saying a lot.

i share the same view, no matter how much i enjoyed the drama... its ending felt like the writers forced a lump of idle hope and cotton candy down my throat and told me to swallow it

also, in terms of the 'perfect person for jipyung' thing... i honestly think that, if anything, the man really needs is a hobby besides business, something else to fill his soul and make him feel fulfilled that doesnt involve a) lying or secrets b)relentlessly sacrificing his own well-being and psyche

maybe give him a dog or a cat, have him become a fan of literature.... maybe have him find him a person opposite of him that loves... idk, climbing?? painting or arts? anything of sorts... have them share experiences in a way friends do... he needs a break after 3 years of having a one-sided crush :/

 Daydreamologist:

Yeah, the way the kept telling him to put aside his emotions all the time bothered me too. Generally speaking, Start-up was unfair to Ji Pyeong. SDM and NDS suit each other, but what Ji Pyeong got out of everything he did for everyone was pocket change, metaphorically speaking. 

I will have to agree with this. The SDM from the first few episodes, who was complex, romantic, family-oriented, and thoughtful, who fit HJP more, was replaced with a completely different SDM who was a dreamer, selfish, dense, and shallow who fit NDS more, in the latter half of the episodes. 

The writer shifted SDM characterization to fit NDS more, and YET, people still didn't feel it fit. But yeah they deserve each other, the NEW SDM doesn't deserve someone like HJP, especially the improved HJP.

Doesn't even need to be someone who falls in love with HJP first, just someone who is more mature would be good enough, because in the end the maturity level of SDM just hit new lows. 

Yes a new mini series would be nice.

 Solid Snake:

Do you remember when SDM almost fainted and was carried by NDS in bridal style? or when SDM fell asleep in 3 second sitting upright with no back support at the cabin? I cringed so hard watching that. The story and effort put in writing scenarios down the stretch was so so bad. Some of the worst falloff in writing. There are a lot of issues with writing and characterization in this drama. It's baffling to see a writer who wrote first half of drama gave us this in second half. Someone else must've interfered with her original version like Director or actors' agencies or someone.

The writer is not very subtle LOL! it just shows the insecurity in her writing that she feels that writing a more nuanced romantic scene would go over people's heads. 

 Sunshinelufc:

I loved this show but the pacing from the time skip onwards was a mess and the story saw a huge dip in quality as a result. Both the writers and viewers would have benefited if it was split into two seasons, one pre-time skip and one post time-skip

Extending this to two seasons would not have helped IMO. Prior to the time skip the damage was already done. The only thing the time skip managed to accomplish is make it harder to believe the current situation.

 Sunshinelufc:

A lot of people are struggling to come to terms with Dal-Mi getting back together with Do-San. This surprises me though as it would have been out of character for her to end up with Ji-Pyeong. Throughout the show she never once displayed any romantic feelings or actions towards the present day him even during the time skip. I imagine the writers were surprised at how the love triangle blew up especially as Ji-Pyeong's love was always unreciprocated.

I would agree, the SDM in the first 6 episodes would work nicely with HJP. The unrecognizable SDM ep 7-12, and especially 13-16 deserves NDS. It's always felt like a tale of two halves, where the story, plot, writing quality in the first 6, does not match the back 9.

The problem with the show is micro expressions. KSH is amazing at it, Suzy and NJH are not so great at it. Suzy has the same doe eyed bambi blank stare when she looks at KSH or NJH, which is what may have started the shipping war in the first place. If SDM was played by an actress with more acting range, then less people would be confused.

 Sunshinelufc:

Despite Ji-Pyeong not getting with Dal-Mi, he was the big winner on the show. He had grown to be an unpleasant man because of his prior circumstances and his one sided love for Dal-Mi changed that. He went from having no respect for anyone, being rude, unapproachable and having no friends to having respect for others, being approachable (not just by Dal-Mi), and became part of a family. He is now in a position to be able to develop friendships and find someone who can share love with him. His character did seem a good fit with In-Jae.

This is not true. Those so called rudeness, unapproachability and etc... are only seen by SST and NDS. The rest of the characters of the show, especially Halmoni, understands the justification behind it.

I'm not sure being forced the Sandbox and be around your first love and her boyfriend, when all you wanted is to grieve, and to end up being almost 40 years old and still single and unmarried, where NDS and SDM actually end up more successful than HJP and WIJ is considered a big winner, but ok. The show makes it clear who the big winners are...

And we cannot assume that he suddenly has a contact list full of friends, that he is fighting woman away wedding proposals, these are just things we wish for him, but the show does nothing to drop hints that this kind of future exist. All we know is that he is "happy" that SDM and NDS got together. Which is quite unrealistic. 

If you've ever been in love with a person, especially if he/she is your first love, and broke up with that person, you will know that working with that person regardless of how many years has passed is emotionally very difficult regardless of how resilient you are. This is actually tackled in many Kdrama and western shows. You never forget your first love. And in the show he has less than 1 year for him to forced to be happy. 

 Sunshinelufc:

Developing true love with your first love is very rare and unlikely.

LOL, this is actually true...She was like 9 when she wrote those letters, idk about kdramaland, but i don't even remember the full name of the guy I fell in love with back when I was 9 :p

I remember leaving a comment here asking why is SDM still so fixated on the letter-NDS? It was understandable for the first few episodes, wanting to reignite a close-friendship to regain her confidence and to find her footing in the world again. But being so absolute on how that's the guy she wants to live with for the rest of her life? That was kinda weird. That's why many people felt like they were being scammed when she moved on from those letters so quickly as that was such a huge contrast to how much she cared in the earlier episodes. 

But I guess that was part of her character growth --> in which she realised that the letter-NDS was not real and she would rather love the real NDS for who he is. (But it wasn't exactly fleshed out well)

 Sunshinelufc:

By extending the story the relationships could have been developed further and important scenes such as the mountain scene could then not feel rushed or forced. However, from your post it appears you did not like the story simply because it was clear early on that Ji-Pyeong was not and was never compatible with Dal-Mi which is okay to feel especially if you become invested in a particular character. 

Feel free to read my review to find out why I didn't like the show, and HJP not ending up with SDM is the least of my issues. at around ep. 8 or so, I had wanted HJP NOT to end up with SDM actually, but rather just to have a happy ending, which the writer failed to provide.

 Sunshinelufc:

I found Ji-Pyeong an unpleasant human being driven by circumstances for the first two thirds of the show and it was nice to see his character develop and transform. The lack of approachability and rudeness is not only seen by SST.

This is your perspective, I didn't see it this way at all. Interestingly enough the show actually shows that NDS has more ulterior motive than HJP did. But I guess people can watch the same show and see different things.

HJP's personality is actually a lot more relatable than NDS is, as you can see based on the many many comments from people who share this view. Your view on HJP as a horrible person seems to be in the minority, and that is ok, because as I said, people see different things. And what we see is most likely affected by our personal experience, and I will respect yours.

 Sunshinelufc:

40 isn't old for a man to find love and men often end up with women younger than them. Money definitely isn't a measure of success or happiness as well, it is not even a factor? As I mentioned before it says it all about him as a human that he is lonely and without friends at that age. He can still find love and have a family and with his change in attitude towards people in general, he has great foundations.

at 40, the field is different, and the type of relationships you can find are harder. It's a fact, i'm not making this up. It's definitely easier for men than women, but it doesn't make it easier objectively.

SDM did not have friends nor did she have boyfriends before. Does that mean she's a horrible person by your standards?

 Sunshinelufc:

You cannot assume he doesn't have friends now either. It does not explicitly state he has friends but his transformation to having a pleasant attitude to others unsurprisingly leads to developing friendships. Being pleasant to others is the foundation to starting a friendship.

We're both making assumptions on his life, you and I are neither right or wrong. 

 Sunshinelufc:

Of course I understand love, I would feel sorry for any grown person who does not. I am happily married. I also understand heartbreak from long term relationships in the past and you are right that it is impossible to be around that person even if you realise you never loved them but in reality you do and can forget your first love especially once you have found real love. When you grow you realise how that 'first love' was not real love at all.

Hmmm... you do know a lot of affairs happen with the first love right? Your married, so you must know people like this. There is always something about your first love, or first sexual partner that is hard to shake. Literally hundreds of movie have been made about this particular theme. There is power in first love that is hard to ignore.

Some people, may meet someone else, but still compare to their first love. And it's that comparison which gives the first love power. 

Should we as people allow first love to dictate us? No, of course not, but can you control it? 

 Kristances:

NDS and SDM had great potential to be refreshing, youthful leads with the power to resonate with the entire generation of those who are in between being Millenials and Gen Z, whos struggles with these typical coming-of-age struggles of work, life, family, love, dreams, friendships, etc. But they really screw their characters up at the end. I really don't blame NJH or Suzy. I believe they tried their best.

The thing is, NDS and SDM's characterization did not resonate with the more mature and older Kdrama watchers. Because older watchers know that this highly fluffy type of success just doesn't exist in the real world, especially in an industry of tech start ups. 

How this resonated with the youths, I can't speak for, because I belong to the older and mature Kdrama audience.

But as far as youths, if I was a parent, i'm not sure this is the moral lessons I want my children learning. Dreams are important, but exit plans, plan B, and conventional wisdom are just as important.

And if I had kids, I would teach them, just because someone is harsh, you should not dismiss them. Ignore the tone and absorb he message. If the message is toxic, then you can ignore that too.