I think we are reading too much into to SDM/HJP hints.
Based on the previews, NDS (now looking like a cool chaebol riding a yacht) will swoop in to save the day from a ransomware attack. And SDM has been looking longingly at his posters all this while). I don't it gets more cliche than that and the writer couldn't be pointing more to an SDM/NDS ending short of taking out a full page ad.
Which is disappointing, but I guess it's my fault for watching after the 1at episode and NDS introduction.
I mean just going by her history - that's exactly what she likes. That's exactly how Kim So Hyun was introduced in Dream High. And both him and Lee Jun Sok's characters followed the female leads around like puppies. NDS's kind of beta male is exactly the character this writer writes as a male lead. So it's my fault for expecting something better and less tone deaf.
ItsV:DS character isn't my cup of tea but I wished they could have done better in showing us his gradual growth but up until now, I haven't seen much, instead, now I see even more clearly his anger issues (in convo with Alex when he finds out the team is being disbanded, the fight with HJP...), his self pity (at the fancy restaurant with DM), his lack of identity...Hence, regarding what you say: the time skip is "necessary for NDS to grow from a confused child into a man", unfortunately it's going to happen off-screen and that's not what I, among many viewers, expect to see.
I understand and I agree in that NDS isn't my cup of tea either. I like him as a character because he's flawed (a rare thing for Male Characters in K-Dramas, but all too familiar for Female Characters) and complex. However, I do not like him as a love interest because his type of love is problematic. It leans more towards infatuation; possessive and obsessive. I also dislike that the time skip will be utilized to show us the return of a more honest NDS, but I'm pretty sure that's going to happen.
ItsV:Many important details and developments seem to happen off-screen in this drama - at least we have to assume so.
I try to see the good in the drama and not complain too much (though I've complain about other dramas plenty, lol), but I agree. Many important things seem to b e happening off-screen, which is why I found episode 11 so wasteful. Rather than repeat lovey-dovey scenes between NDS and SDM I would've rather that time be used to developed either In Jae or have more scenes between HJP and Grandma.
In fact, even though I LOVE the scenes where Ji Pyung learns about Grandma going blind, I was disappointed that their subsequent conversation was left off screen. Though I'm still hopeful we'll get a glimpse of what they talked about through flashbacks.
ItsV:“In the future, there will be no female leaders. There will just be leaders.” - Sheryl Sandberg
Is it too late to expect Start-Up to be an advocate of that message? I thought SDM would become a leader, but all in all what I see is a female leader who is made to take a back seat so the man can prove himself.
They certainly did her character a great injustice. The moment she found out about the "lie" I expected the guys to take a step back and for her to focus instead on her job. I understand that she felt they'd made fun of her and she was shaken (not knowing what was true and what wasn't), but I'd hoped that she would at least not hesitate or loose confidence when it came to her job. At this point, I don't think we'll get to see the female characters really flourish.
Episode 13's preview makes it clear that Dal-Mi will be in trouble (with someone hijaking their system) and NDS will get to play a bit of the knight in shining armor). Let's just say, I hope I'm wrong and the writer gives Dal-Mi some kind of agency in that situation, but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm going to touch on this point in my next article, but let's just say that Female Leads tend to be defined by hardships, whereas Male Leads tend to be defined by their Strenghts and Skills. Very, very few dramas have turned out to be the exception and, ironically, none of those seem to be as popular as the ones that depict the more traditional "Cinderella story".
ItsV:Last bit I wanted to say, re JP-DM relationship, you said this in the earlier episodes (ep. 8) "we (the audience) get to see them re-establish a relationship without baggage. And, in so doing, we'll experience the entire process of them developing feelings for each other without their "past" coming into play and lending them a sort of "handicap". I so hoped for that to be the case but from episode 9 onwards, we didn't get to see much of the two together unfortunately.
I was quite surprised by this turn of events, to be frank. I had expected the later half of the drama to "even out" the amount of air time between the male characters; with us seeing A LOT more of HJP. But that hasn't been the case. And it was because of how NDS has been written to be so clingy and his friends blocking HJP every time he tries to approach Dal-Mi.
You could make a case that HJP is being passive in his romantic pursuit of Dal-Mi; whereas NDS has always been actively pursuing her. BUT, the counterpoint to that is that HJP has been active in his own mature, hand-off way. Because his goal isn't necessarily to end up with Dal-Mi, but for her to grow and find her happiness (whether with him or NDS).
I still hope that, with NDS's absence, Dal-Mi can start spending time with HJP and that she'll realized he's always been supporting her silently as she navigates her way through life.
thumbi:The thing that's frustrated me the most in the show so far is the following: Like you and several other commenters have pointed out, there have been so many visual and auditory clues hinting at a future where HJP and SDM end up together, but the more we see these clues, the less time we get to see the both of them actually explore any such romantic feelings. Although three years pass, from the teaser for episode 13, I got the feeling that SDM was still in love with NDS. Now I don't mind if SDM and NDS end up together, but if they do, what was the point of all those "clues." Were we as an audience just reading too much into it? Or was the screenwriter just BSing us till the end? If alternatively, SDM and HJP end up together, is there really enough time to actually see her fall in love with him?
I agree that the writer seems to be taking a wishy-washy approach with these last couple of episodes. I was hoping the time skip would extend, so that we could get at least two episodes with NDS in SF. I think two episodes could allow the relationship between HJP and SDM to flourish.
What I expect is that NDS would come back being more honest with himself. But, as he shows his real personality, SDM will realize he's a lot different from the guy she thought she knew. So that could give way for her to choose HJP while NDS is around.
But I'm not very sure where the writer is headed with having NDS return so soon.
And I agree. If she ends up with NDS I'll definitely feel like the "love story" was convoluted for no reason save extending a story that could've been told in a few episodes. And that would really diminish the quality of the writing.
Ismail Bergitar:If I may add, one scene in episode 9 that in my opinion spoils everything is when Dosan suddenly wakes up and is fully conscious, even though he only slept for a while after being badly drunk. How could that be? Which is ridiculous at least to me. It still bothers me until now.
This scene has completely changed the storyline.
Yes! I agree 100%. That scene seemed... so out of place, especially considering NDS had to be carried into the house! I saw it as NDS blocking HJP from spending quality time with Dal-Mi, which is a role he's been in for a while now. And because said role is very hostile, I still it adds weight to the fact that he's the 2ML. Or rather, that he won't be Dal-Mi's end game. But we'll see how the next episodes shape out.
romantic idiot:Based on the previews, NDS (now looking like a cool chaebol riding a yacht) will swoop in to save the day from a ransomware attack. And SDM has been looking longingly at his posters all this while). I don't it gets more cliche than that and the writer couldn't be pointing more to an SDM/NDS ending short of taking out a full page ad.
I hope not. I really, really do. Because that's such a problematic message. The "I wasn't sure about your worth until you came back as a successful, rich man".
romantic idiot:I mean just going by her history - that's exactly what she likes. That's exactly how Kim So Hyun was introduced in Dream High. And both him and Lee Jun Sok's characters followed the female leads around like puppies. NDS's kind of beta male is exactly the character this writer writes as a male lead. So it's my fault for expecting something better and less tone deaf.
I am actually not familiar with her work, though others have pointed out the similarities to "Dream High" (which I haven't seen), so I'll take your word for that. Though I'm still holding out hope that the writer hasn't provided all that subtext (writing & visual cues), only for her to undo everything by supporting the idea that "lies can help you succeed; so honesty be damned".
"Though I'm still holding out hope that the writer hasn't provided all that subtext (writing & visual cues), only for her to undo everything by supporting the idea that "lies can help you succeed; so honesty be damned"." (I don't know how the quote button works so I just copied your comment.)
Exactly. I find it really hard to believe the writer would throw in all those cues just to lead us on. I'm positive we're not overinterpreting things since it's impossible for all of them to simply be a coincidence. The cues are well-thought-out and definitely placed on purpose. What could be the purpose of letting them amount to nothing? It's no wonder the entire community is feeling cheated right now since everyone is expecting that this is exactly what the writer is doing. Let's hope the writer isn't really going to take this direction.
Btw, it was a great idea to have you post your analysis here! I was just thinking, how I am supposed to find your posts again in the comments section among all those many comments if I want to reread your analysis, haha. And thanks for taking the time to do this!
3GGG:I am actually not familiar with her work, though others have pointed out the similarities to "Dream High" (which I haven't seen), so I'll take your word for that. Though I'm still holding out hope that the writer hasn't provided all that subtext (writing & visual cues), only for her to undo everything by supporting the idea that "lies can help you succeed; so honesty be damned".
In Dream High the FL and 2ML got a kiss, in "I Hear Your Voice" she liked the 2nd male lead first and he was a really nice guy. She crosses lines. She goes there. And she writes good 2nd leads - both in Pinocchio and While You Were Sleeping the 2nd leads were really noble characters as well.
Lilli_:(I don't know how the quote button works so I just copied your comment.)
If you select some of the text (in the computer, since it doesn't work on mobile) a pop-up "quote" button appears. Clicking that will put whatever you selected with a quote :).
Lilli_:Exactly. I find it really hard to believe the writer would throw in all those cues just to lead us on. I'm positive we're not overinterpreting things since it's impossible for all of them to simply be a coincidence. The cues are well-thought-out and definitely placed on purpose. What could be the purpose of letting them amount to nothing?
Exactly! It would be wasteful NOT to follow up on what the writer has set up. Having said that... I know a few dramas that basically dropped the ball and undid characters with just a last episode riddled with inconsistencies and plain bad writing. So although I hope it doesn't happen here, I wouldn't be all that surprised if it does. :/
Lilli_:Btw, it was a great idea to have you post your analysis here! I was just thinking, how I am supposed to find your posts again in the comments section among all those many comments if I want to reread your analysis, haha. And thanks for taking the time to do this!
You're welcome, though it's thanks to @ItsV who actually threw the idea out there for me :). I actually wrote these analysis more to get them out of my system than expecting anyone to read them; let alone enjoy them! So this was a pleasant surprise for me, lol.
romantic idiot:In Dream High the FL and 2ML got a kiss, in "I Hear Your Voice" she liked the 2nd male lead first and he was a really nice guy. She crosses lines. She goes there. And she writes good 2nd leads - both in Pinocchio and While You Were Sleeping the 2nd leads were really noble characters as well.
From those I have actually watched the two last ones (Pinocchio & WYWS) and I like both of those dramas a lot. I feel that in those dramas there was never any doubt about who the ML was. And I can see some similarities between HJP and the 2ML of Pinocchio, here the cues all point towards an end game of SDMxHJP; while in Pinocchio the end game was always the ML (and all the visual cues supported that).
3GGG:I'm going to touch on this point in my next article, but let's just say that Female Leads tend to be defined by hardships, whereas Male Leads tend to be defined by their Strenghts and Skills. Very, very few dramas have turned out to be the exception and, ironically, none of those seem to be as popular as the ones that depict the more traditional "Cinderella story".
Looking forward to reading it :)
ItsV:Oh yes, that'd be great, and perhaps an epilogue with HJP and SDM talking about the letters and/or his backstory/relationship with Grandma too :)
Don't get your hopes up. This should have happened in episode 9, at least about the similarity of Jipyeong's writing in the revision and in the letter. Or it happened during lunch when Jipyeong confessed his feelings. Or at dinner after a stupid fight. But everything was skipped by the writer for the sake of Dosan. And the romantic moment for Jipyeong and Dalmi was skipped far, which made the chance for them to become a couple, is impossible.
I really enjoyed reading your analysis! It’s really objective and you get to the point on what the writer is trying to convey instead of forcing your own fantasies and speculations into your analysis (like some JiPeyong or DoSan shippers -_-). Thank you for treating Start-Up as a piece of art with good writing instead of mere ship wars!! Lohv it
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