Thanks again for your input. It's a shame the cues and all were there for no good reasons. It's just lame. Of course we could be reading too much into a few things, but I refuse to believe all the symbols, cues etc. were unintentional. The worst thing though is that the writer didn't seem to see the problematic messages she's sending out there. What a shame.
I actually wanted to wait for the last episode to drop before coming here in hopes that the last episode would be salvageable however I could not wait any longer and had to lament my disappointment with the director and the writer, not because I did not get the ending that I wanted but rather because the pacing was off for it to end in such way. There were also so many questions unanswered, and visual cues disregarded --- or perhaps intentionally added to divided the viewers thus focusing on the love story --- that further amplified my disappointment considering how I am a fan of their works, and how many missed opportunities for growth could have been there instead hence giving viewers actual life lessons that we could get. Nevertheless, I am thankful that I got to discover this analysis which contains lessons in regards to the art of film making in KDramas that I will take as a lesson when watching other shows.
Wow what a disappointing ending for a show that flies in the face of any good message they could have had. I don't even understand what the character arcs in the show are meant to be. Everyone seems to have stayed the same or regressed or their problems are magically solved off screen. DoDal ending with NDS telling Dalmi he wants to be her trophy and dream as if they didnt have NDS speak to his dad about the problems with seeing someone else as your pride and joy. How can a show contradict itself so much? Its sad they dragged out and wasted so much time on a love triangle when it could have been devoted to other characters or relationships. Nonetheless I enjoyed your analysis of this drama so thank you for your posts.
ItsV:Of course we could be reading too much into a few things, but I refuse to believe all the symbols, cues etc. were unintentional. The worst thing though is that the writer didn't seem to see the problematic messages she's sending out there. What a shame.
Unfortunately, I agree. I think the cues were intentionally added to confuse us and give us a cheap "plot twist". But, even worst than that, is the problematic way in which the main couple was written. Where how (and more importantly why) they got together didn't matter so long as they got together. So, up till the last scene, Do San still didn't feel genuine to me. But taking the romance out, everything else was quite good. So my final rating is: 8/10.
duckie:There were also so many questions unanswered, and visual cues disregarded --- or perhaps intentionally added to divided the viewers thus focusing on the love story --- that further amplified my disappointment considering how I am a fan of their works, and how many missed opportunities for growth could have been there instead hence giving viewers actual life lessons that we could get.
I agree about the pacing as well. I think the audience would've been less divided if the writer had made HJP give up a lot sooner, thereby allowing his character to find his footing with the group outside of being the "second love interest". Because as much as I have lamented and written about how Dal Mi's character's purpose and identity was lost in the wake of the love triangle; so too did HJP suffer a similar fate. I'm going to touch on this in my last thoughts regarding Episode 16.
ilunasya:Everyone seems to have stayed the same or regressed or their problems are magically solved off screen. DoDal ending with NDS telling Dalmi he wants to be her trophy and dream as if they didnt have NDS speak to his dad about the problems with seeing someone else as your pride and joy. How can a show contradict itself so much?
I share your disappointment in the writer/production deciding to embrace a very questionable message. I think the very fact that Do San would want Dal Mi to be his trophy and, in return, for him to be her trophy is a great way to encapsulate the problem I had with this couple. It's the fact that you should never aspire to be someone's trophy, to begin with! Nor should you look for your happiness in someone else's hands. You should work on your own happiness. But part of that journey is in finding yourself. You cannot help someone else flourish when you yourself haven't sowed the seeds to help you grow into who you want to be. I still adamantly believe that the couple should've had a proper breakup to reflect on who they are and who they wanted to be with. Then the time skip should've helped speed that process up. Then, once they reconnected, they should've rebuilt their relationship from the ground up, all cards on the table, no more lies between them, with each fully aware of who they are, what they want, and where they're going...
ilanputo:Thank you journeying with me :D
Thank you all for the great discussions! If anything, at least coming up with theories and interpreting the cues were fun; even if they were ultimately disregarded. :)
Episode 16, Final Thoughts:
So we have finally reached the end and I'd be lying if I said the ending was satisfying. However, I'd also be lying if I claimed it was downright unsalvagable or disappointing. I think the ending was okay. Could it have been better? Certainly. But honestly, it could've also been way worst.
Perhaps the most problematic aspect here is not that Dal Mi decided to stay with Do San. Instead, the problem is how they got together (through a lie that was never properly dealt with), why they got together (Do San was still so focused on filling in the shoes of Dal Mi's first love --that's made clear when he refused to return the letters-- that we never got to see him really embrace his own identity, or even find it to begin with!) and what they aspire to be (wanting to be someone's trophy should never be a life goal!).
While the construction of the romance was problematic, the absence of consequences and the minimization of mistakes are marks of bad writing. Why have characters face problems if the writer will keep them safe from the consequences via cop-outs, plot armor, and/or having those consequences happen off-screen? Characters are supposed to face problems and make mistakes so they can learn, adapt, and grow.
Out of all the characters, Do San faced the most problems but had the least growth. The very fact that his identity crisis was never fully addressed and dealt with is perhaps the biggest disservice his character got.
I think the best thing this drama did was to showcase some beautiful family moments. It also gave us some beautifully written characters we got to enjoy whenever they stepped on-screen (Han Ji Pyeong, Grandma, and, to a lesser extent because she had little screentime, In Jae). I also absolutely enjoyed comparing and contrasting Do San with Ji Pyeong --not to see who was better, but to see how similar they were despite their differences. I hoped they would've established some sort of friendship after the halfway mark, but Do San never matured enough to make it happen.
I also think In Jae's reason for only waiting until now (Episode 16) to meet Grandma was beautiful. Too bad it happened so late, as I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing we'd get to see more bonding moments between those two.
Last but not least let's talk about Ji Pyeon and his ending. I was expecting something really sad with him because I read some of the comments before watching the last episode. I braced for the worst but was pleasantly surprised at his ending.
Yes, I agree that forcing him into the group via a semi-cop-out (his company wanting to invest in Dal Mi's) was not well executed. However, we got to see not only a sweet moment with Grandma basically saying that they are family (I wished she's come out and called him son, though), but then we get that scene with him investing in a GREAT cause. WHY, oh WHY did it not happen sooner?!
I would've loved to see HJP pouring some of his love and nourishment into a startup that aligned so much with his own life. One with whom he will resonate. I wanted to see him take some people under his wing, giving other orphans an opportunity similar to the one fate bestowed upon him when he met Grandma. I was so happy though that we get an open ending where we know he'll flourish and be fulfilled helping that startup change people's lives! Who knows, maybe we get a special episode with only him and that CEO?
I think Ji Pyeong encompasses and embraces the healthiest message I've seen in a K-Drama... love is selfless and kind. Love doesn't need other's acknowledgment, it just gives and expects nothing in return. And Ji Pyeong, alongside that CEO, will certainly plant a garden of nourishment and love. And for that alone, this drama is worth a watch.
My final rating: 8/10, Read my review here.
With that, thank you all for sharing your thoughts and discussing the drama with me. It was fun!
bueno creo que has sido demasiado amable con el 8 de historia yo le daría un 5, nunca entendí que me quiso contar el escritor a lo largo de 16 capítulos, ciertamente estoy decepcionado.
yo odio ese final FANSERVICE. todos cogidos de la mano hacia un futuro brillante (el mensaje no es malo pero NO me gusto) los últimos 6 capítulos los vi fue por inercia.
Ademas de lo que has dicho de NDS que estoy de acuerdo, NUNCA me gusto que si SDM le hubiera dicho o se hubiera enterado de que la abuela tenia CANCER estoy seguro que NDS también hubiera encontrado la cura contra en cancer, todo lo que hacia lo hacia sin muchos problemas incluso superando a una industria establecida en corea que me hacia pensar y gritarle al tv “hayyy ya por DIOS dejate de joderrr eres un genio pero no jodas” y por supuesto todo muy conveniente para que la trama avance.
Otra cosa que me molesto en el capitulo 10 con las cartas es que cuando SDM descubre la verdad y en eso estoy de acuerdo contigo, ella necesita TIEMPO Y ESPACIO (algo que NDS ni el escritor le dio). Yo queria ver CONSECUENCIAS pero obviamente no es lo que yo quiero sino lo que el escritor me dio.
NUNCA entendí la escena de SDM diciendo "quiero saber quien esta en mi corazón" si una escena (dorito) después ya lo había perdonado a NDS otro dorito after ya sabia que lo amaba otro dorito after ya rompía con el para protegerlo (por que NO poder tener una relación a larga distancia o amista no lo se, como lo dije antes una ESCRITURA MUY FLOJA. (ahora lo entiendo NDS era el juego final claro coño como no lo vi antes ajjaajaj)
Tampoco me gustan las contradicciones constantes que vemos en 16 capítulos (lo que NDS le dice a su padre de su relación y lo que le dice SDM sobre su TROFEO) EN muchas ocasiones le gritaba al tv (ajajja)
Me gustaron muchos mensajes que dieron a lo largo de la serie pero me decepciona que solo quedaron en eso ... palabras bonitas que se las lleva el viento.
ME ENCANTAN las escenas de la abuela y HPJ pero en verdad me estas diciendo (ultimo capitulo) que después de 3 años apenas esta es la primera vez que ella le dice que NO necesita nada y que en su lugar ayude a los necesitados…. En verdad NO me jodas, todo muy conveniente.
En conclusión demasiadas conveniencias (me quedaría toda la vida enumerándolas jajajja) de una POBRE escritura (obviamente no me gusto la relación de NDS Y SDM.).
MeNos mal que se acabo, en los últimos capítulos me desesperaba y si que le gritaba al tv. UN TIPICO CASO EN DONDE LA ESCRITORA ME HIZO PENSAR: QUIERO (1 ° CAPITULO) A TERMINARLA CON UN NO PUEDO.
Mejor sigo viendo KAIROS que me desespera un poco pero no tanto como START UP.
ST3C4N:Ademas de lo que has dicho de NDS que estoy de acuerdo, NUNCA me gusto que si SDM le hubiera dicho o se hubiera enterado de que la abuela tenia CANCER estoy seguro que NDS también hubiera encontrado la cura contra en cancer,
Hahahaha no puedo, que bueno que no estaba tomando mi café cuando leí eso. Aunque me da mucha risa tu comentario, estoy de acuerdo. Creo que quisieron poner a Do San al principio muy losersillo para darnos a un hombre principal que sobresale por estar definido por su falta de éxito (algo super raro en Kdramas). Sin embargo, cuando nos movemos a la segunda mitad, solo vemos éxito tras éxito. Como si fuera poco, el script nos recuerda por medio de comentarios entre personajes que Do San es SUPER inteligente.
Siento que la regaron sobre todo con el personaje de Do San. Quisieron hacer algo diferente al principio pero luego nos dieron el cookie-cutter ML. Completo con sus escenas en donde llega y rescata a la doncella.
Porque, así como decidieron hacer a Do San el típico ML, también cambiaron a una FL interesante por una muchacha que necesita a Do San para funcionar... :/
ST3C4N:Otra cosa que me molesto en el capitulo 10 con las cartas es que cuando SDM descubre la verdad y en eso estoy de acuerdo contigo, ella necesita TIEMPO Y ESPACIO (algo que NDS ni el escritor le dio). Yo queria ver CONSECUENCIAS pero obviamente no es lo que yo quiero sino lo que el escritor me dio.
Fijate que lamentablemente esta no es la primera vez en donde un escritor de Kdramas introduce un SUPER buen mensaje (llenisimo de sentido) y despuésito se contradice, lo minimiza o lo nulifica con acciónes que no concuerdan con ese mensaje. Me recordó mucho a Itaewon Class. En donde el ML le pide a la FL que lo deje de molestar con constantes confesiones durante tiempo de trabajo, puesto que lo incomodan. Y como no... eso es akin a sexual harassment casi. Pero ese mensaje lo nulifican al siguiente capitulo, en donde el ML se da cuenta que en verdad si la quiere hahaha.
ST3C4N:Tampoco me gustan las contradicciones constantes que vemos en 16 capítulos (lo que NDS le dice a su padre de su relación y lo que le dice SDM sobre su TROFEO) EN muchas ocasiones le gritaba al tv (ajajja)
Para serte honesta, hubo muchas escenas entre SDM y NDS (que solo eran montajes "sweet") que las adelante hahaha. Las vi en cachitos porque es un romance al que no me pude suscribir.
Y es que, otra vez volvemos al personaje más mal escrito --Do San. Porque al principio hasta nos hace hincapie en que el no se siente cómodo con trajes. Que a el le gusta vestirse con sus camisas de cuadritos. Oye, pues eso esta perfecto... Pero luego del time-skip me lo traes vestido como Steve Jobs y me dices que ese es su verdadero "el"?
Hay gente a la que no le gustan los trajes. Y cuando son programadores, menos se visten así. Mejor nos hubieran dicho que a Do San SI LE GUSTAN los trajes. Pero que el quiere vestirse con un traje que el haya trabajado en comprarse. Y entonces, ah, ya tiene sentido.
A lo que voy es que no fuiste el único que se estreso con las inconsistencias.
ST3C4N:bueno creo que has sido demasiado amable con el 8 de historia yo le daría un 5, nunca entendí que me quiso contar el escritor a lo largo de 16 capítulos, ciertamente estoy decepcionado.
Posiblemente si. Y es que como quiera el personaje de HJP se me hizo tan maravilloso, que fue por el y como lo escribieron que no puedo darle menos de 8. La abuela también la escribieron super bien. La más grande falla fue el romance.
Creo que si la escritora hubiera hecho que HJP se volviese pinche contra los principales; o petty, pues. Bueno pues ahí si le hubiera bajado bastante puntos. Al final creo que las fallas de Do San fueron también bien pensada, pero no explico porque nunca maduró como personaje o cambio para bien. A mi me encantan los personajes con fallas, pero tiene que haber algo redimible y una aceptación de esas fallas que ciertamente no ocurrió con Do San.
PD: También estoy viendo KAIROS y hasta ahorita me esta gustando. Pero aún más me esta gustando "Uncanny Counter".
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