I think JP felt something special about her, maybe someone familiar of the past, so he followed her from distance.…
It's not a simple fight, her world literally crumbled around her, and she didn't know who NDS or HJP were anymore.
And that is why HJP did it in the calmest voice possible, and applied as little pressure to her with his words. HJP knew that having her mind so confused before demo day would be disastrous for SDM, so he in fact clarifies certain things to hopefully help clear her mind.
HJP doesn't say anything to confuse SDM further. Look at SDM after, HJP tells her I have feelings for you. No emotions, as if she already knew. He even tells her, he just wanted to be honest and clear the air, and not to make her feel uncomfortable. And further tells her, even if she doesn't' reciprocate then it's fine with him, and it would be weird for them to avoid each other over such a small thing. Everything he says is to help defuse the tornado in SDM's mind. And also, does this sound familiar?
Yes it does, because SDM just told NDS, it is hard for her to stay professional and see HJP and NDS after the truth is revealed. And yet here is HJP, telling her calmly, let's not avoid each other just because of this situation, as if he knows what she is feeling, he knows the truth is straining her professional responsibilities, and he is assuring her it should not. Once again, HJP knows what SDM is feeling without needing to be told this. As compared to NDS who needed to be told this directly by SDM. Big diff here.
NDS words to SDM on the other hand, filled head head with hopes and dreams again, something she realizes were nothing more than fluff.
don't mean to start a war .... but HJP also stalked SDM lol in ep1. what's worse is that they weren't even friends…
When you see someone you haven't seen in a long time, and in fact, are not even sure what she looks like, because you have only probably seen her a handful of times 15 years ago and probably not sure what she would look like as an adult, there are only three things you can do:
1. Either you approach them, and say "hey, you probably don't know me, but I wrote you those letters 15 years ago, your grandma lied to you all this time."
or
2. You ignore her, because you don't care.
or
3. You approach her, and hide the truth on who you are. To rekindle a long lost friendship, or start a new one. Ironically, the same thing NDS ends up doing.
Before we further analyze this, we must first use our understanding of HJP, that we have garnered from 16 episodes. We know that HJP is confident and an outspoken person. But whenever it comes to SDM, he always seem to wear a mask, as if to place some distance between them. We see this in one of the episodes where he gets updates about SDM through Grandma, rather than asking SDM himself. He cares deeply about SDM, but often uses an intermediary to show this. In fact, in many ways, NDS was HJP's intermediary towards SDM as well.
You could even say, when it comes to SDM, HJP is not very confident, NDS is the opposite as he gains confidence when he is with SDM.
We know that when HJP hears SDM name, instant recognition crosses his face. He knows that name, but for the first time, he is associating a face with the person he wrote those letters to 15 years ago.
Knowing this, we know option 1 is out of the question, because SDM doesn't know who HJP is, and he would not risk exposing the truth, not knowing all the facts. This fits HJP investor profile, he is not impulsive, he just doesn't act on emotion. As much as he wanted to reveal the truth, it's not his lie to reveal.
Option 2 is also off the table, because HJP WAS interested, and he also probably wanted to seek out Halmoni as well, since it's been fifteen years. And as if he was a young HJP again, the link and the past he has thought long forgotten, has begun to spring up again.
That leaves Option 3. Let us keep in mind HJP doesn't follow SDM from the meeting place. Prior to SDM at the bus stop, she was meeting with WIJ, and her last meeting was with WIJ, when there was still daylight. By the time SDM is at the bus stop, it is already night time. So what we see is HJP on his way home, when he sees SDM, who he recognizes from the Q&A, looking crazy.
There is a moment of hesitation on HJP's face, then he decides to follow the bus. Then parallel walk along with SDM. The question is why doesn't HJP just approach SDM at this time? Because HJP is a man who seeks the perfect situation. Just like in ep. 10 when SDM finds out the truth he says "I want her to look at me, but not with those eyes". He may have wanted to meet her in better circumstances, not when she had been banging her head for God knows how long. Keep in mind he doesn't know why SDM seems depressed. Then he sees Grandma.
I see this scene in two ways. Either HJP is looking to find a way to talk to SDM, the person who comforted him 15 years ago or he is following SDM to hopefully find Halmoni. There is also the possible reason, that after seeing her depressed, he just wanted to make sure she was ok.
Keep note of one more thing, the distance between HJP and SDM are filled with many people. When he was in the car, he was in a far enough distance from SDM, with a bus full of people separating them. And when he parallel walks along SDM, there are approximately 10 steps in between them, as well as multiple people, even a couple in between them. He appears more as a protector than anything here, he doesn't hide his presence, nor skulks.
HJP may have been a stranger to SDM, but SDM was not a stranger to HJP. After seeing the scenes with the letters and HJP backstory, this scene is just a reminder of how, HJP has always been there for SDM even if he can never reveal the truth.
Now, let us look at NDS side of things.
SDM and NDS just had a HUGE fight, when she learns about the deception the night before. That all her time with NDS was a fake. She says before she storms out, "The person I want, I don't know who that is." then she walks out. That is girl speak for I need time alone, i'm hurting.
Ok, but let's excuse NDS, because he's bad with girls. So the next day we see him waiting for SDM outside her home, for who knows how long. SDM sees this, and instead of seeing this and going awwwww!, she basically ignores him. BUT then he starts following her, and we see that look on her face of pure annoyance, she stops and says "You know what torments me the most, I don't understand what's going on, and it PAINS me to see you" So this right here, we know exactly how she would react to NDS stalking her, she spells it out to him. And yet, she's prepared to be professional and keep on trudging along due to demo day.
After telling NDS, seeing you is painful, she makes it even more clear by telling him "Let us not meet each other outside work" This is clear as day.
Just to interject, Alex is following NDS on his scooter, are we going to say that Alex is also stalking NDS then as well? No we don't, because Alex and NDS have never met, and this is just Alex following NDS to talk to him. Similar to HJP following SDM to talk to her, or at least meet her.
Now let's begin our look into NDS stalking SDM. SDM goes back to SST, and ask everyone their coffee order, then she meets NDS in the doorway. She sees NDS and averts her gaze, NDS sees this. This clearly shows, SDM Is STILL not OK. Notice she ask NDS coffee order, but not once makes eye contact, which brings us back to the fact that she says, If I see you, I feel pained because I remember all the lies and deception.
Now SST people are readying to go home, and SDM tells them she is meeting someone later, during which NDS just looks at her sadly. Cheul San and Yong San talk about I wonder if it's Mr. Han who SDM is meeting. You bet NDS is also thinking this, let's not forget they have a rivalry. HJP afterwards tells NDS, "I have told SDM about my feelings, so I can't be a brother anymore"
Keep in mind the emotions that NDS feels here. His jealousy of HJP is at an all time here, so he probably follows SDM initially because he wants to see if she is planning on meeting HJP. Something that even the other two san's thought would happen. And so NDS starts to follow SDM, forgetting her plea for space, and not to meet up after work. I guess in NDS mind, if your drunk, and you don't remember, then it doesn't count as meeting up? Who knows...
First NDS keeps a respectable distance, across the road, similar to HJP, with cars and the bus separating them. Then he gets closer, just outside where she is playing the claw machine, nothing separates them but empty air. He turns around as SDM comes out, because obviously he knows what he is doing is wrong since SDM already told him , she didn't want to see him. Otherwise, he would not bother hiding.
And then at the restaurant, he moves even closer, with only a few tables separating them. Yet he is still hiding behind a wall, then he starts to move towards SDM, even after she told him, she did not want to meet. When the ancestor girl comes, he loses his nerve, and hides again. At this point, he is close enough to eavesdrop on SDM inner thoughts, and he is doing this without SDM knowing that he is spying.
I don't know SDM's alcohol tolerance, but there are 3 bottles of Soju on the table. Ancestor girls tactic is simple, get the "Mark" drunk enough so it will be easier to scam her. I'm guessing this whole thing has happened in the span of at least 30 minutes. This is how much time I think it would take to go through 3 bottles of Soju. So for 30ish minutes, NDS was getting information about SDM covertly.
Once again, we don't know SDM alcohol tolerance. But she is clearly drunk here, NDS even says, "I'm sure you will not be able to remember any of this". I want to give NDS the benefit of the doubt and say he only showed himself to SDM to protect her from ancestor girl, and not because he knew SDM was too drunk to remember anyway. But his line about "You probably don't remember because your drunk" has me a bit bothered, because he has shown to have manipulative tendencies.
I'll stop this analysis here, because the park scene is a whole bottle of works on his own.
This scene makes me think, if I don't tell my BF something, or there is something I don't tell my husband, there is a reason for this. Maybe our relationship is not that great that I can tell them these things, or it's something I don't feel comfortable telling them. For them to find out my inner thoughts, or find out things I didn't feel comfortable telling them via subterfuge, while I am drunk, is such a betrayal IMO.
"At least when NDS stalked SDM, they were actually friends"
Friends don't stalk other friends
Friends respect other friend's words
And lastly Friends don't listen in to other friends covertly, while a friend is drunk and vulnerable.
Bonus: Friends don't leave other friends drunk and alone in a park at night for God knows how long.
In conclusion, I explain I don't see what HJP did as stalking, but I saw what NDS did as not only stalking, but a betrayal of trust as well.
Where western shows concentrate more on the plot, eastern shows tend to focus more on the characters. So I find that eastern dramas create really strong family shows, and rom-com's. And because Kdramas tend to be 95% attractive ML and FL, it's easier to ship the two attractive couples.
I agree, emotionally, I feel more invested in the lives of Kdrama characters than western dramas. So even though I don't like the story of Start Up, I do love the characters of WIJ and HJP.
Off the top of my head, the recent ones I've watched, I really like Umbrella Academy (a bit bloody for my taste, and some scary parts, but really smart writing) and Queen's Gambit. For older shows, I really enjoyed House MD, and the first 6 seasons of Game of Thrones. I also thought season 1 of Mandalorian was quite good.
As corny and cheesy as it may be, I embarrassingly admit, I got a bit invested in Once Upon a Time.
For a span of about 3-4 years, I only watched exclusively Asian films, China, HK, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, and Thai films. That is why you'll notice my writing style feels more like a movie review more than anything LOL! I only really got into Kdrama about a year ago. Prior to Kdrama, my only other experience with Asian Dramas was the really old Winter Sonata.
I've always preferred Kmovies over Drama, it's only recently i'm discovering the wonderful world of Kdrama. And it's not like super amazing, but it's enjoyable and easy watching. But HJP's character is the first time i'm Stanning an Actor. Prior to Start Up, I only stanned Gong Hyo Jin, but now i'm on team KSH :)
I've heard good things about Stranger Things, but I don't like horror films.
True. 8.6+ then is masterpiece :) I am aware of the war between PBIO and Untamed.
Ofc people can love things that are rated 7 or below, just like people can dislike those rated 8.5 and above.
Hmm, I am biased, I like a lot of Gong Hyo Jin's drama's, so I would recommend those. They are not rated that high on MDL anymore, and will not be to everyone's taste. I rarely recommend shows to be honest, because I know people's taste differ. Like, I know people loved Goblin, but I disliked it, I also disliked descendants from the sun, and TKEM.
Plus, I haven't watched any masterpiece dramas, even GHJ's dramas have flaws, and are dragging at spots. All in all, I think certain dramas are amazing, and have good writing, but to call a show a masterpiece is a tall order to ask of me. I haven't come across one yet. So if you ever see me rate a non GHJ drama an 8 or a 9, that is already very good for me.
To be honest, the only shows I would rate masterpieces are western shows. Korean shows in general still lacks a certain oomph to bring it up to Hollywood standards. But I enjoy Kdrama nonetheless, due to it's focus on micro expressions, family matters, and it's showing of Asian culture which I find fascinating. But to rate a Kdrama a masterpiece? I haven't' come across one yet that deserves the distinction of such.
Now Korean movies? That is another story, I'm a big fan of Director Park Chan Wook, and Oldboy is my all time favorite movie, period. Although I am not a fan of suspense or thriller, this one I liked, I felt there was so much layers and dimension to the movie. I like art films as well, like the Japanese film, Memories of Matsuko. These two alone, I would call masterpieces and recommend. I think in terms of quality, Korean Movies are slightly better than Dramas. That is just my opinion of course.
I think Kdrama's greatest strength are it's romantic-comedies. I rarely stan any pairings in western shows, but I absolutely love the chemistry and love shown in Kdrama Rom-Coms, and I do think the Kdrama actors are quite handsome and more to my taste compared to western actors.
But when it comes to technically heavy shows, most Kdrama falls flat due to the little research they do on the topic. Like startup for example, does next to no real research on Start Up industry or business practices. In fact, I have yet to see a technical show that shows decent technical background. Then I compare it to a show like House MD for example, and a couple of episode of House has more medical information than a Kdrama medical show has in it's entirety.
Probably part of this problem is the short lengths of Kdrama 16 episodes vs multi season of western shows.
I also thought Start Up was a better show than TKEM.
I think the new normal is different now.
7.0-7.5 is considered below average Kdrama, but still watchable.
7.5-8 is considered average Kdrama
8-8.5 are considered above average Kdrama
8.5-9 are considered amazing Kdrama.
And above 9 are considered masterpieces
and below 7 is considered garbage
So Start Up would fall under average then. But to be fair, as you said about TKEM, we need to factor in the popularity of the cast, because more Stans equals more people rating and otherwise below average drama into average drama range.
I want to appreciate a scene when HJP have phonecall with DM when he's sick. The scene is so amazingly left a…
Let us keep in mind this is a phone conversation. So SDM cannot see HJP's facial expressions.
Note that prior to the conversation, he tilts his head to the right and swallows. He is hiding evidence of his illness. He is basically putting on the mask he always has when talking with SDM. The mask that puts distance between them.
SDM: Well you watched demo day right?
HJP: Of course congratulations, you guys did pretty well.
We see genuine happiness from HJP here. the added touch of KSH closing his eyes for a second as he relays this message is powerful, as this shows us how much he meant in. In fact, if you were to talk to a person who closed his eyes and slightly nod his head, you would feel more inclined of the authenticity of the person. Add to the fact that he is smiling, fully knowing that SDM cannot see him, he is really happy for her.
SDM: Thank you, we owe it all to you.
HJP: That's not true
(Pause)
HJP: I didn't even do anything.
(Pause)
HJP: All I did was nitpick at everything.
Why did I add pause? Because this is to show, HJP's carefully choosing his words, and what to say, he is looking for a specific effect. This part of the scene is showing HJP's unwillingness to take credit, although deep down, he feels he does deserve the credit. At the end of this sequence for a just a millisecond, we see him curl his lips to the right. This whole conversation, especially with the pausing, he is gauging what SDM's reaction would be to his words. Unbeknownst to HJP, he is slowly being disarmed by SDM, his mask slowly removed.
His mind and heart are telling him that SDM will just agree with what he says, but his soul is craving that she will insist that he was a big help, that she will let him know that all his actions in the background, all his outside help, all his intentions were appreciated. For a man as selfless as HJP, he has a momentary lapse of wanting to be selfish, wanting to take credit for SDM's success.
SDM: We wouldn't be where we are today without your nitpicking.
HJP's face is stunned. He may have been wanting to hear this exact answer, but to hear it, actually moves him. He realizes how satisfying it is to be momentarily selfish, to revel in the praise that his deeds had gained.
SDM: Thank you, I really mean it.
We start to see HJP's eyes get a little glassy as he hears this word he has been hoping to hear for a long time. We see him squeeze his cheeks as if to swallow the rushing emotions. A parallel to SDM's words in her last letter to HJP. Thanking him, he hasn't heard those words from anyone for a long time. He has been completely selfless for so long, to suddenly hear someone, especially SDM, says it. It moves him to tears. To suddenly hear that he was not invisible, to hear that his efforts were appreciated, you feel the emotion in HJP's face.
We see him look down, as if to stop his tears. For that brief second, the mask was taken off, the true feelings are put on the table for all to see. For that brief moment, there was no distance between him and her.
SDM: Mr. Han?
We see Mr. Han clear his throat, and as if to parellel the first part of the scene where he looks to the left and swallows, he is donning his mask again. He allowed himself this momentary selfishness, and it felt amazing! But now, he has to go back and hide behind his mask, increasing the distance between him and SDM again.
HJP: Sorry, I'm driving right now, I'm going on a trip with my friends.
With the mask back on, even though his soul yearns to tell SDM more, tells her he loves her, to say thank you even, his mind does not allow it, the cage on his heart remains intact. He retreats back to safe distance once again.
This is a tragic scene as it shows HJP once again refusing himself happiness. HJP realizes that by being selfish, he is able to achieve happiness. But being selfish goes again the "Good Boy" persona that HJP has. As much as he wants to be the "Selfish Boy" that isn't who he is. And he realizes he wants SDM to fall for him when he is being a "Good Boy", instead of being selfish.
So in HJP's mind, he is going to keep doing acts/deeds to reflects his "Good Boy" persona, and not succumb to his selfish desires. Even though the selfish desired feels amazing and good, it's not who he is. Throughout the show, he allows himself momentary lapse of selfishness, but he always goes back to his core persona.
Unfortunately, SDM is not the kind of girl who is very sharp, and does not pick up on these emotions. HJP needed someone who was empathetic, someone who can feel another person's emotions even when she is not seeing that person. The SDM from 15 years ago, would have felt HJP's pain, seen through his hurt, and know exactly what to do for HJP. The current SDM is so blinded in her ambition, that she can only see the person beside her (NDS), and not the person that helped her in the past(HJP), or the one actively trying to secure her future (HJP).
I hope you enjoyed this dialogue analysis :)))
P.S.
This scenes shows the gap in Suzy and KSH's acting. Suzy here, just talks like she's reading lines in the script.
And that is why HJP did it in the calmest voice possible, and applied as little pressure to her with his words. HJP knew that having her mind so confused before demo day would be disastrous for SDM, so he in fact clarifies certain things to hopefully help clear her mind.
HJP doesn't say anything to confuse SDM further. Look at SDM after, HJP tells her I have feelings for you. No emotions, as if she already knew. He even tells her, he just wanted to be honest and clear the air, and not to make her feel uncomfortable. And further tells her, even if she doesn't' reciprocate then it's fine with him, and it would be weird for them to avoid each other over such a small thing. Everything he says is to help defuse the tornado in SDM's mind. And also, does this sound familiar?
Yes it does, because SDM just told NDS, it is hard for her to stay professional and see HJP and NDS after the truth is revealed. And yet here is HJP, telling her calmly, let's not avoid each other just because of this situation, as if he knows what she is feeling, he knows the truth is straining her professional responsibilities, and he is assuring her it should not. Once again, HJP knows what SDM is feeling without needing to be told this. As compared to NDS who needed to be told this directly by SDM. Big diff here.
NDS words to SDM on the other hand, filled head head with hopes and dreams again, something she realizes were nothing more than fluff.
1. Either you approach them, and say "hey, you probably don't know me, but I wrote you those letters 15 years ago, your grandma lied to you all this time."
or
2. You ignore her, because you don't care.
or
3. You approach her, and hide the truth on who you are. To rekindle a long lost friendship, or start a new one. Ironically, the same thing NDS ends up doing.
Before we further analyze this, we must first use our understanding of HJP, that we have garnered from 16 episodes. We know that HJP is confident and an outspoken person. But whenever it comes to SDM, he always seem to wear a mask, as if to place some distance between them. We see this in one of the episodes where he gets updates about SDM through Grandma, rather than asking SDM himself. He cares deeply about SDM, but often uses an intermediary to show this. In fact, in many ways, NDS was HJP's intermediary towards SDM as well.
You could even say, when it comes to SDM, HJP is not very confident, NDS is the opposite as he gains confidence when he is with SDM.
We know that when HJP hears SDM name, instant recognition crosses his face. He knows that name, but for the first time, he is associating a face with the person he wrote those letters to 15 years ago.
Knowing this, we know option 1 is out of the question, because SDM doesn't know who HJP is, and he would not risk exposing the truth, not knowing all the facts. This fits HJP investor profile, he is not impulsive, he just doesn't act on emotion. As much as he wanted to reveal the truth, it's not his lie to reveal.
Option 2 is also off the table, because HJP WAS interested, and he also probably wanted to seek out Halmoni as well, since it's been fifteen years. And as if he was a young HJP again, the link and the past he has thought long forgotten, has begun to spring up again.
That leaves Option 3. Let us keep in mind HJP doesn't follow SDM from the meeting place. Prior to SDM at the bus stop, she was meeting with WIJ, and her last meeting was with WIJ, when there was still daylight. By the time SDM is at the bus stop, it is already night time. So what we see is HJP on his way home, when he sees SDM, who he recognizes from the Q&A, looking crazy.
There is a moment of hesitation on HJP's face, then he decides to follow the bus. Then parallel walk along with SDM. The question is why doesn't HJP just approach SDM at this time? Because HJP is a man who seeks the perfect situation. Just like in ep. 10 when SDM finds out the truth he says "I want her to look at me, but not with those eyes". He may have wanted to meet her in better circumstances, not when she had been banging her head for God knows how long. Keep in mind he doesn't know why SDM seems depressed. Then he sees Grandma.
I see this scene in two ways. Either HJP is looking to find a way to talk to SDM, the person who comforted him 15 years ago or he is following SDM to hopefully find Halmoni. There is also the possible reason, that after seeing her depressed, he just wanted to make sure she was ok.
Keep note of one more thing, the distance between HJP and SDM are filled with many people. When he was in the car, he was in a far enough distance from SDM, with a bus full of people separating them. And when he parallel walks along SDM, there are approximately 10 steps in between them, as well as multiple people, even a couple in between them. He appears more as a protector than anything here, he doesn't hide his presence, nor skulks.
HJP may have been a stranger to SDM, but SDM was not a stranger to HJP. After seeing the scenes with the letters and HJP backstory, this scene is just a reminder of how, HJP has always been there for SDM even if he can never reveal the truth.
Now, let us look at NDS side of things.
SDM and NDS just had a HUGE fight, when she learns about the deception the night before. That all her time with NDS was a fake. She says before she storms out, "The person I want, I don't know who that is." then she walks out. That is girl speak for I need time alone, i'm hurting.
Ok, but let's excuse NDS, because he's bad with girls. So the next day we see him waiting for SDM outside her home, for who knows how long. SDM sees this, and instead of seeing this and going awwwww!, she basically ignores him. BUT then he starts following her, and we see that look on her face of pure annoyance, she stops and says "You know what torments me the most, I don't understand what's going on, and it PAINS me to see you" So this right here, we know exactly how she would react to NDS stalking her, she spells it out to him. And yet, she's prepared to be professional and keep on trudging along due to demo day.
After telling NDS, seeing you is painful, she makes it even more clear by telling him "Let us not meet each other outside work" This is clear as day.
Just to interject, Alex is following NDS on his scooter, are we going to say that Alex is also stalking NDS then as well? No we don't, because Alex and NDS have never met, and this is just Alex following NDS to talk to him. Similar to HJP following SDM to talk to her, or at least meet her.
Now let's begin our look into NDS stalking SDM. SDM goes back to SST, and ask everyone their coffee order, then she meets NDS in the doorway. She sees NDS and averts her gaze, NDS sees this. This clearly shows, SDM Is STILL not OK. Notice she ask NDS coffee order, but not once makes eye contact, which brings us back to the fact that she says, If I see you, I feel pained because I remember all the lies and deception.
Now SST people are readying to go home, and SDM tells them she is meeting someone later, during which NDS just looks at her sadly. Cheul San and Yong San talk about I wonder if it's Mr. Han who SDM is meeting. You bet NDS is also thinking this, let's not forget they have a rivalry. HJP afterwards tells NDS, "I have told SDM about my feelings, so I can't be a brother anymore"
Keep in mind the emotions that NDS feels here. His jealousy of HJP is at an all time here, so he probably follows SDM initially because he wants to see if she is planning on meeting HJP. Something that even the other two san's thought would happen. And so NDS starts to follow SDM, forgetting her plea for space, and not to meet up after work. I guess in NDS mind, if your drunk, and you don't remember, then it doesn't count as meeting up? Who knows...
First NDS keeps a respectable distance, across the road, similar to HJP, with cars and the bus separating them. Then he gets closer, just outside where she is playing the claw machine, nothing separates them but empty air. He turns around as SDM comes out, because obviously he knows what he is doing is wrong since SDM already told him , she didn't want to see him. Otherwise, he would not bother hiding.
And then at the restaurant, he moves even closer, with only a few tables separating them. Yet he is still hiding behind a wall, then he starts to move towards SDM, even after she told him, she did not want to meet. When the ancestor girl comes, he loses his nerve, and hides again. At this point, he is close enough to eavesdrop on SDM inner thoughts, and he is doing this without SDM knowing that he is spying.
I don't know SDM's alcohol tolerance, but there are 3 bottles of Soju on the table. Ancestor girls tactic is simple, get the "Mark" drunk enough so it will be easier to scam her. I'm guessing this whole thing has happened in the span of at least 30 minutes. This is how much time I think it would take to go through 3 bottles of Soju. So for 30ish minutes, NDS was getting information about SDM covertly.
Once again, we don't know SDM alcohol tolerance. But she is clearly drunk here, NDS even says, "I'm sure you will not be able to remember any of this". I want to give NDS the benefit of the doubt and say he only showed himself to SDM to protect her from ancestor girl, and not because he knew SDM was too drunk to remember anyway. But his line about "You probably don't remember because your drunk" has me a bit bothered, because he has shown to have manipulative tendencies.
I'll stop this analysis here, because the park scene is a whole bottle of works on his own.
This scene makes me think, if I don't tell my BF something, or there is something I don't tell my husband, there is a reason for this. Maybe our relationship is not that great that I can tell them these things, or it's something I don't feel comfortable telling them. For them to find out my inner thoughts, or find out things I didn't feel comfortable telling them via subterfuge, while I am drunk, is such a betrayal IMO.
"At least when NDS stalked SDM, they were actually friends"
Friends don't stalk other friends
Friends respect other friend's words
And lastly Friends don't listen in to other friends covertly, while a friend is drunk and vulnerable.
Bonus:
Friends don't leave other friends drunk and alone in a park at night for God knows how long.
In conclusion, I explain I don't see what HJP did as stalking, but I saw what NDS did as not only stalking, but a betrayal of trust as well.
Where western shows concentrate more on the plot, eastern shows tend to focus more on the characters. So I find that eastern dramas create really strong family shows, and rom-com's. And because Kdramas tend to be 95% attractive ML and FL, it's easier to ship the two attractive couples.
I agree, emotionally, I feel more invested in the lives of Kdrama characters than western dramas. So even though I don't like the story of Start Up, I do love the characters of WIJ and HJP.
Off the top of my head, the recent ones I've watched, I really like Umbrella Academy (a bit bloody for my taste, and some scary parts, but really smart writing) and Queen's Gambit. For older shows, I really enjoyed House MD, and the first 6 seasons of Game of Thrones. I also thought season 1 of Mandalorian was quite good.
As corny and cheesy as it may be, I embarrassingly admit, I got a bit invested in Once Upon a Time.
For a span of about 3-4 years, I only watched exclusively Asian films, China, HK, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, and Thai films. That is why you'll notice my writing style feels more like a movie review more than anything LOL! I only really got into Kdrama about a year ago. Prior to Kdrama, my only other experience with Asian Dramas was the really old Winter Sonata.
I've always preferred Kmovies over Drama, it's only recently i'm discovering the wonderful world of Kdrama. And it's not like super amazing, but it's enjoyable and easy watching. But HJP's character is the first time i'm Stanning an Actor. Prior to Start Up, I only stanned Gong Hyo Jin, but now i'm on team KSH :)
I've heard good things about Stranger Things, but I don't like horror films.
Ofc people can love things that are rated 7 or below, just like people can dislike those rated 8.5 and above.
Hmm, I am biased, I like a lot of Gong Hyo Jin's drama's, so I would recommend those. They are not rated that high on MDL anymore, and will not be to everyone's taste. I rarely recommend shows to be honest, because I know people's taste differ. Like, I know people loved Goblin, but I disliked it, I also disliked descendants from the sun, and TKEM.
Plus, I haven't watched any masterpiece dramas, even GHJ's dramas have flaws, and are dragging at spots. All in all, I think certain dramas are amazing, and have good writing, but to call a show a masterpiece is a tall order to ask of me. I haven't come across one yet. So if you ever see me rate a non GHJ drama an 8 or a 9, that is already very good for me.
To be honest, the only shows I would rate masterpieces are western shows. Korean shows in general still lacks a certain oomph to bring it up to Hollywood standards. But I enjoy Kdrama nonetheless, due to it's focus on micro expressions, family matters, and it's showing of Asian culture which I find fascinating. But to rate a Kdrama a masterpiece? I haven't' come across one yet that deserves the distinction of such.
Now Korean movies? That is another story, I'm a big fan of Director Park Chan Wook, and Oldboy is my all time favorite movie, period. Although I am not a fan of suspense or thriller, this one I liked, I felt there was so much layers and dimension to the movie. I like art films as well, like the Japanese film, Memories of Matsuko. These two alone, I would call masterpieces and recommend. I think in terms of quality, Korean Movies are slightly better than Dramas. That is just my opinion of course.
I think Kdrama's greatest strength are it's romantic-comedies. I rarely stan any pairings in western shows, but I absolutely love the chemistry and love shown in Kdrama Rom-Coms, and I do think the Kdrama actors are quite handsome and more to my taste compared to western actors.
But when it comes to technically heavy shows, most Kdrama falls flat due to the little research they do on the topic. Like startup for example, does next to no real research on Start Up industry or business practices. In fact, I have yet to see a technical show that shows decent technical background. Then I compare it to a show like House MD for example, and a couple of episode of House has more medical information than a Kdrama medical show has in it's entirety.
Probably part of this problem is the short lengths of Kdrama 16 episodes vs multi season of western shows.
I think the new normal is different now.
7.0-7.5 is considered below average Kdrama, but still watchable.
7.5-8 is considered average Kdrama
8-8.5 are considered above average Kdrama
8.5-9 are considered amazing Kdrama.
And above 9 are considered masterpieces
and below 7 is considered garbage
So Start Up would fall under average then. But to be fair, as you said about TKEM, we need to factor in the popularity of the cast, because more Stans equals more people rating and otherwise below average drama into average drama range.
Who knows, maybe one day i'll make one :)
Even TKEM only had 400.
I enjoy reading your rants! Keep up the good work :)
Hmmm... something is missing...
Pretty sure Kimsamsoom is herself :)))
But Who Cares asked for a possible end game theory, so I put my Dodal hat on :)
Note that prior to the conversation, he tilts his head to the right and swallows. He is hiding evidence of his illness. He is basically putting on the mask he always has when talking with SDM. The mask that puts distance between them.
SDM: Well you watched demo day right?
HJP: Of course congratulations, you guys did pretty well.
We see genuine happiness from HJP here. the added touch of KSH closing his eyes for a second as he relays this message is powerful, as this shows us how much he meant in. In fact, if you were to talk to a person who closed his eyes and slightly nod his head, you would feel more inclined of the authenticity of the person. Add to the fact that he is smiling, fully knowing that SDM cannot see him, he is really happy for her.
SDM: Thank you, we owe it all to you.
HJP: That's not true
(Pause)
HJP: I didn't even do anything.
(Pause)
HJP: All I did was nitpick at everything.
Why did I add pause? Because this is to show, HJP's carefully choosing his words, and what to say, he is looking for a specific effect. This part of the scene is showing HJP's unwillingness to take credit, although deep down, he feels he does deserve the credit. At the end of this sequence for a just a millisecond, we see him curl his lips to the right. This whole conversation, especially with the pausing, he is gauging what SDM's reaction would be to his words. Unbeknownst to HJP, he is slowly being disarmed by SDM, his mask slowly removed.
His mind and heart are telling him that SDM will just agree with what he says, but his soul is craving that she will insist that he was a big help, that she will let him know that all his actions in the background, all his outside help, all his intentions were appreciated. For a man as selfless as HJP, he has a momentary lapse of wanting to be selfish, wanting to take credit for SDM's success.
SDM: We wouldn't be where we are today without your nitpicking.
HJP's face is stunned. He may have been wanting to hear this exact answer, but to hear it, actually moves him. He realizes how satisfying it is to be momentarily selfish, to revel in the praise that his deeds had gained.
SDM: Thank you, I really mean it.
We start to see HJP's eyes get a little glassy as he hears this word he has been hoping to hear for a long time. We see him squeeze his cheeks as if to swallow the rushing emotions. A parallel to SDM's words in her last letter to HJP. Thanking him, he hasn't heard those words from anyone for a long time. He has been completely selfless for so long, to suddenly hear someone, especially SDM, says it. It moves him to tears. To suddenly hear that he was not invisible, to hear that his efforts were appreciated, you feel the emotion in HJP's face.
We see him look down, as if to stop his tears. For that brief second, the mask was taken off, the true feelings are put on the table for all to see. For that brief moment, there was no distance between him and her.
SDM: Mr. Han?
We see Mr. Han clear his throat, and as if to parellel the first part of the scene where he looks to the left and swallows, he is donning his mask again. He allowed himself this momentary selfishness, and it felt amazing! But now, he has to go back and hide behind his mask, increasing the distance between him and SDM again.
HJP: Sorry, I'm driving right now, I'm going on a trip with my friends.
With the mask back on, even though his soul yearns to tell SDM more, tells her he loves her, to say thank you even, his mind does not allow it, the cage on his heart remains intact. He retreats back to safe distance once again.
This is a tragic scene as it shows HJP once again refusing himself happiness. HJP realizes that by being selfish, he is able to achieve happiness. But being selfish goes again the "Good Boy" persona that HJP has. As much as he wants to be the "Selfish Boy" that isn't who he is. And he realizes he wants SDM to fall for him when he is being a "Good Boy", instead of being selfish.
So in HJP's mind, he is going to keep doing acts/deeds to reflects his "Good Boy" persona, and not succumb to his selfish desires. Even though the selfish desired feels amazing and good, it's not who he is. Throughout the show, he allows himself momentary lapse of selfishness, but he always goes back to his core persona.
Unfortunately, SDM is not the kind of girl who is very sharp, and does not pick up on these emotions. HJP needed someone who was empathetic, someone who can feel another person's emotions even when she is not seeing that person. The SDM from 15 years ago, would have felt HJP's pain, seen through his hurt, and know exactly what to do for HJP. The current SDM is so blinded in her ambition, that she can only see the person beside her (NDS), and not the person that helped her in the past(HJP), or the one actively trying to secure her future (HJP).
I hope you enjoyed this dialogue analysis :)))
P.S.
This scenes shows the gap in Suzy and KSH's acting. Suzy here, just talks like she's reading lines in the script.
I was thinking the same thing while writing this :)
Most NDS fans, lack the skill to argue properly.