lilmeow

Wait... MDL is translating reviews for us? I didn't know that! I sometimes still see reviews in other languages, but only very occasionally. Your comments show up in Portuguese and I have been using Google translate. I even downloaded the app, which i did not know existed until I saw your message 😂 I found the interface is really clunky... I can't properly use it...

I DEFINITELY look for negative comments when I don't like a show!! 😂 and the meaner they are, the better. I wish MDL let us sort reviews by rating, then we could just filter straight to the negative ones 😂😂 I think Reddit is somewhat better for this since there are a lot of people posting random things all the time (not just a review after they finish the show, and often people will not finish a show if they didn't like it, so the number of hate reviews is limited). But I don't know how reddit handles translation. And if everyone on even reddit is liking something I didn't, that's the most infuriating... then I have no choice but to struggle through the show so I can write my own negative review 😂😂

As for those spoilers, I agree, it's nice to know if a show is going to end in tragedy. If so, I don't want to watch 😂 But I don't want to know all the plot twists and secrets! Those are more fun when dramatically revealed within the show 😂

This is the first time I hear of somebody who has such a hobby 😂 of reading reviews, even for products!! 😂😂😂 I agree though, I love to read comments on Instagram or Youtube. They are at least half the fun of the experience. The problem with comments on drama episodes is all the spoilers 🤧 sometimes really big ones! Show reviews are usually better because people will try to mark spoilers... I remember the Viki reviews were often quite short though, and right, in all different languages. I think MDL will float English reviews to the top for me, though I have no idea how they decide to order the reviews.

With dramas I really hate, as soon as I start to think it's bad, I go on reddit to find people who also hated it. If everyone seems to like it, sometimes I specifically search for hate posts like "[name of drama] FL is annoying" or something like that. Then when I get really mad is when I can't find anyone who also hated it 😂 which is part of the reason I started writing reviews too... at least one person has exactly my opinion, and it's me!

Reading reviews to decide if a drama is worth watching is probably what they're originally meant for 😂 But sometimes I feel the need to watch really popular shows that are just airing... makes me feel trendy, I guess. Then I can only scan comments to see if people are liking it so far. Sometimes the shows turn out to be really bad. But there are still a few really bad shows I finished because I was following all the hate comments on reddit and it was really fun to see everyone be so mean 😂

Is reading reviews that interesting?? Most of them just say "best show ever, *name of actor* is so amazing!" and you have to go through pages and pages to get anything real. There are a few kinds of reviews I like: 1) I watched the show and agree with the review (on the other hand it is very annoying if I disagree with the review!); 2) I'm trying to decide if I should watch a show, and an actually helpful review will tell me both good and bad things so I can see if they match what matters to me; and 3) somebody is very angry and hates the show 😂😂😂 like all your comments here! But everyone has different tastes. Sometimes I see people attacking a show I actually liked, so I know I don't always agree with negative criticism. But sometimes it's just funny to see somebody really hating on a show 😂

😂😂😂😂😂 You really found so many things wrong with the show! I didn't notice the watery blood. I feel like it never looks that real in any show. Dried blood is very dark and somehow they always still make it bright red.

But when you say, they should have used that time to provide more information on this or that... I thought something like that too at first. They definitely could have done less blabbing about the common people. But on further thought, actually I didn't want more information on this or that, I just wanted the show to be over 😂😂😂 Like how the final villain's story seemed to just be missing scenes, so that the ones we saw didn't make sense. Well, I kind of wanted to see the scenes, but I was more happy that they cut them so that the show could end earlier 😂😂

I agree that the Chinese production machine is just churning out too many things. It feels like quantity over quality. They put out SO many shows, which must cost a lot of money, yet so many of them are so bad! What a waste of everybody's time and effort. Well, I say that, but here I am still watching Cdramas. I guess once in awhile I find one I really like, and I am always hoping to find that one, but in between I watch a lot of really bad shows which I finish just so I can write a negative review that nobody will read 😂😂

Haha! Sorry, I actually laughed a little when I read your comment. It sounds like you really had some problems with the show! It made me realize how much I've gotten so used to some of these things that I barely noticed (like the heavy makeup and filters- I hope China moves away from this someday; the script with loose ends and just plain sloppy writing; the music that tells me how to feel; the same cliches as always, shuffled around). I have seen so many bad shows lately that I didn't think this one was that bad, although I didn't particularly like it either. But you are right about all those things. I was surprised to see that this show got the usual 10/10 reviews from people who loved it... often just fans of the actors, I guess. There are many people who seemed to have believed the romance with no problems. I don't know how! I just got gut level uncomfortable watching it 😅

For Riley, the SML actor, I have seen him in quite a few shows. I didn't really like a Dream Within a Dream as a whole, but I think that's a better role of his. I seem to like him better in goofy, lighthearted roles, and then have a hard time believing him in serious ones. My favorite one of his is probably Back From the Brink. Because of that show, I still like him as an actor, but some of his other roles (like Fate Chooses You) made me cringe. I don't know how much of it is director, but I wouldn't complain if he just stuck to goofy roles from now on 😂

I think another thing is that she somehow gets away with a lot of stuff. Like, most people can't be that arrogant because we need to function in society! I kept secretly wanting somebody to put her in her place 😂 And yeah, her adjustment to awakening in another body took... about three blinks. They should have done a better job with the rebirth dynamics.

I did watch The Long Ballad. For awhile I thought Dilraba's character was annoying, but in the end I think she's more lost. I don't remember exactly, but I think the ML liked her for being unique (I wasn't that invested in their romance though). It's not as egregious as these princes here- three of them are diehard in love with this girl and I truly do not understand why.

In the end, I agree with you, I respect that this show tried something different with the FL, but it wasn't for me.

Thanks! You know, at the beginning I was worried it was my own implicit bias thinking that women should be likable and nice. But then I thought about it more, and I think it’s just generally important for main characters to be likable and relatable, so we can root for them and care about them. The FL at the beginning of this show is so scary and icy. I was only a little more ok with it because there were all these side characters commenting on how scary she is. So I figured the point is to have her be unlikable at the beginning so we can get some real character growth… … she takes a really long time, though!! By which point, too late, I still don’t like her that much.

I think calling this a good plot is a stretch. There are some nice parts, and later on it’s not bad, but other shows do just as good a job with similar themes. Don’t think you’re missing that much 😉

Thanks for the rec! This looks really interesting, I'll add it to my list. I would love "beyond Confucianism"... some of Confucius's teachings really bother me, especially with regard to gender roles ;-)

To be honest, I wasn't a huge fan of Liu Yifei the last time I saw her. Her performance in A Dream of Splendor was probably the biggest reason I dropped the show. I just felt like she was putting on airs to act elegant and beautiful, and even did something with her voice. But I know she is widely respected as a skilled and versatile actress, so I'm sure I would feel differently about some of her other performances!

Ah yes, I agree that the message and culture sharing overshadows the story. That's also partly because the story is really weak, so it's easy to get overshadowed. I suspect that there are some people who like this kind of story (eg if you like righteous indignation and then seeing your protagonist win) so I had assumed it was written for them, but it is equally possible that it was just sort of carelessly (or purposefully) written to convey all the other messages. Now that you've pointed it out, it's probably all I'll see if I ever rewatch it! Luckily, I have no plans to rewatch.

But these moral statements about how to be righteous and honorable people, I feel like there is something to that effect in almost every Cdrama I see. Also about saving and protecting the common people. I mean I don't think it's necessarily bad to encourage people to be good people, but it's too heavy-handed and pervasive... so I just try to ignore it most of the time.

Here it might have been much more frequent than necessary, as you point out, but I either didn't notice or mind. I felt like even the values I didn't agree with were relatively harmless since it's a historical, so it's only showing how people felt back then. I recently watched another show that glorified the consumerism of the 90s (Dream of Golden Years) and that one made me cringe a lot more because I feel like it's an ongoing modern debate and the show is glorifying behaviors I disagree with. So by comparison, this already wasn't so bad!

I also really agree with you that China has an immense history and culture, full of contradictions. It's just such an incredibly long history. But I'm not sure we will ever see Cdramas explore it with a critical eye, at least as long as censorship is what it is. I read another comment somewhere that the country is especially strict about how history is portrayed (though I'm not sure exactly how it works... the show I saw this comment in relation to was Legend of the Magnate which I think was already not that flattering towards China, but maybe that's still the whitewashed version). But the fact that so many shows struggle with this kind of censorship makes me feel a little better because it means the people who make them are trying to toe the line and add as much balance as they can.

Anyways, thanks for your perspective, this has been an interesting discussion. I don't think anyone likes the idea of being indoctrinated, so if that's what a show seems to be doing, it's definitely a turn-off!

Hi! Continuing our conversation from my review to yours 😉 I think we both agree that the show did some things poorly, namely... the entire story. It probably appeals to a certain kind of person, but it's just not subtle or nuanced or interesting enough for me.

That said, I am a lot less offended by the celebration/glorification of Chinese culture than you are! I am second generation Chinese so maybe that's part of it (because it's my own culture), but I am ok with a country wanting to show off some part of their culture or history. I think I would take the same attitude towards a Western country doing it. Even if I don't particularly care about the topic, I just try to care enough for the duration of the show, because I can understand that the people involved in the trade might really treat it so sacredly.

As for the values propaganda, this is not the most heavy-handed I have seen in Cdramas, so it is true that I am somewhat inoculated 😛. But I usually think of it as a reflection of the times rather than trying to preach those values to the audience. Subordinating self under family is so big in Chinese culture- from my own experience, I can see how ingrained it is in some of the older generations- so it might be considered historically inaccurate if the characters' attitudes didn't reflect this. The women's rights is also similar, having a brainwashed female character or two is probably more historically accurate. Li Zhen is an idealized character and it's interesting to see what they consider the most important virtues to give her, but it's fair to reflect what the culture (then or now) considers important.

Anyways, that is the kind of attitude I like to take towards Cdramas, otherwise I wouldn't be able to enjoy them as much. I like to think the people making shows have good, non-propaganda intentions, and sometimes just throw in some things here and there to get on the government's good side or pass censorship. I am ok with somebody sharing their culture and being proud of their cultural heritage... just in this case it would have been better if they did it with a more interesting story and multidimensional characters.

Thanks for your comment, it's always nice to read views I agree with 😉

For "The Double", I always thought of that extra 5-minute add- on clip as a cheap attempt to backpedal on an unpopular ending. They never really explain how they got there from the show's ending. But at least if they pull the same thing with this show, I can believe it, so thanks for sharing that the clips exist!

I'm probably not as good as you at judging historical authenticity. I don't know what was real for that time. But I think this is still an idol show so they wanted to make everyone look modern-standard good. Like Li Zhen's face is still very pale and smooth with a facial filter. I was already impressed that old people have freckles, that's where my standards are at 😂😂 Probably I should watch more non-idol shows, but they seem to be mostly depressingly realistic and gritty, so I end up with these idol shows and I just ignore how unrealistic the characters look. My pet peeve is long fingernails on a character who works with their hands, like noooo, that is a liability!

But you are right, this is a show that tried to maximize the female lead at the expense of everyone else. I feel like I have seen a few Cdramas like this recently though. There's probably a certain group of audience that just really likes watching a strong female lead dominate everything. I think it's at least better than the days when female leads were only there for some romantic plots 😛 I didn't see your review out yet but I'll take a look when you're done!

I know what you mean... I actually made a list because I looked up so many recs for shows with strong FLs and a lot were more like "strong FL with asterisk". https://mydramalist.com/list/4J5oW2x3 <-- see if you've watched the ones at the top of this list, they might be better about it. However at the top of the list they are sometimes not the most interesting dramas because it's just about one girl kicking ass everywhere.

As for this show, I think they did female empowerment well. Personally I think the FL overshadows the ML, and even though he saved her a lot, it's because her skillset lies elsewhere. Another thing I look for is side character women who have positive relationships with each other and care about things beyond their love lives, and they had that too (iirc, been awhile). Just unfortunately I didn't like the FL for other reasons so I had a hard time rooting for her or relating to her.

Thanks for your comment, interesting point. Hm, I don't think anyone would last long watching historicals if they actually expected realism. They're all full of genius teenagers. I don't know how quickly everyone grew up back then, but afaik frontal lobes are still developing into the 20s (especially guys) sooo yeah. But make them any older and they'd have to be married with children, so the entire timeline of achievements gets pushed up.
That said, I don't know that I've noticed a particular bias towards criticizing female characters more than male for being unrealistic. If you have... I know a lot (most?) drama watchers are female, so maybe people are comparing themselves and feeling inadequate. I read somewhere that that's one reason BL is so popular. But there is definitely an entire class of feel-good female empowerment shows with strong FLs putting everyone in their place, and then everyone watching is on the same page because nobody would watch it if they didn't like that sort of thing ;-)

I don't remember this exact moment, but she was super super love brain for Changheng for awhile, so I could see it 😅

that's true! in which case it makes sense to just not watch their shows. No point making yourself upset!

glad you agree on these points! I like Cheng Lei too, and thought he did fine for what he was given... just... 🙈 an actor can't save a show

thanks for your nice comment! wah, I am still hungover from this show 😭 I don’t know why I was so convinced it would all work out 😭

thank you, you just saved me a lot of time. I thought this show would have great female empowerment, but opening a perfume shop in 5 minutes as a secret side hustle does not count o.O Now I'm about ⅓ through and the show is feeling more and more off... so I read reviews to decide if I should continue, and "lazy storytelling" describes it perfectly. Sounds like it doesn't get better. Thank you for struggling through this show so the rest of us don't have to!

Yeah, I think she is going for some sort of... quiet, elegant, and noble sort of vibe. You're right, I think it's because she doesn't seem to have many real emotions that we can relate to, she's just flat and unrelatable. Too busy being a saint. I am still confused why almost nobody else seems to think this, so thank you for your comment!

thank you!! I'm so glad you agree, it's a good sanity check for me 😊