Eleison

The Cai Nue, that's it! 😂 Thank you. This was all very helpful. :) I appreciate you breaking it down for me.

Interesting! So then how does she become the most educated scholar of her town? There's a name for it, the position or reputation she held when married to Yu Rong, but I can't remember it. Someone told me about it on this thread but I've forgotten the term. Haha, do you know what I'm talking about? 😂

Yes, and she's quite young still!

It's now in the reviews. :) I tried showing this drama to my mom and had to create a little family tree so she could keep everyone straight, but she's never seen a sageuk before so she can't tell them apart from their facial features alone and keeps getting everyone mixed up. I've realized this is not a good watch for someone new to Asian dramas, but especially sageuks, haha. Once I figured out who the characters were and what their titles meant and how they related to each other, I tracked just fine, but if you can't even tell the characters apart then it's just plain confusing from start to finish.

I suppose it can depend on why you're vegan/vegetarian.

If you think it's wrong/irresponsible to eat meat, then, yes, this is not the show for you!

Haha, well, if you keep watching Kdramas, you'll continue to be disappointed. What you mentioned is a nonnegotiable of the Kdrama rom-com formula. It's going nowhere fast. I suppose you can try to change the formula by not watching them (since by watching them, you're supporting them)? And you'll have better luck with original Disney or Netflix Kdramas! They experiment more.

Lots of great "art" and "masterpieces" aren't more popular because they fail to entertain and appeal to their audience. I'm always skeptical when people say the stuff no one watches or rarely likes are masterpieces (achem, the Oscars).

And most people don't watch Kdramas (or any film or TV) because they're great art, they watch them because they are enjoyable and entertaining. They can end up being great art, but that's usually because the creators told a good story, and a good story well-told is art. :) And that's why people liked it!

That said, Kdramas entertain in a very specific way and in a specific format. In my experience, they tend to specifically entertain people who want more restraint regarding the depiction of gratuitous sex and who like to see their entertainment champion characters who are measured by their ability to conform to or uphold important moral values like being good or just or selfless (hence the wave of popularity among those fed up with Western TV and film because it fails to appeal to them due to the evolving nature of its content). I'll concede your point about rom-coms; I think that is a somewhat valid observation, though I don't agree 100%.

Besides, I think the masterpieces that are artistic AND entertain get ironed out over time. And just because something is beautiful or entertaining to someone, or a few people, doesn't make it art. The best stuff will entertain the most people but do so in a timeless or unique way. But it takes time for these gems to emerge, and honestly, Kdramas are still such a recent format (they really didn't take off until the early 2000's, right?); it will take time for the true masterpieces to emerge, and they will be determined by the community, not just a few "truly in the know" and with "good taste."

Another way of putting this: every now and then the Oscars hit on masterpieces the populace already knew were great, not the other way around.

I always find your posts interesting and thoughtful, and like to dialogue about this stuff, so that's why I chimed in! So please see my response as an attempt at healthy discussion, not a dig.

I just wrote that "synopsis" to be helpful, so maybe I failed miserably (and I marked this as a "spoiler" so I don't ruffle more feathers), but I'll admit I'm confused by your comment. How did I spoil "the whole story"? I told viewers they can prepare to encounter:

1) A strong queen
2) She will try to protect her sons from evil/ambitious people at court
3) She will inspire people around her
4) She will experience tragedy (is this the point you thought was too obvious?)

I think an effective synopsis piques interest without giving specific details but still provides good context for what people are getting into so they don't feel cheated or misled. How do you think I went overboard?

Questions (I'm just two episodes in):

1) Is Seon Woo Eun Ho still Yoo Ri, or is she a previous incarnation? It makes no sense that she would be, though, because Yoo Ri is a gumiho, and aren't they immortal?

2) If Cheon Mu Yeong is also a mountain god, how was he able to heal Eun Ho? Lee Yeon can't do that? Aren't they of similar status/power (aka former mountain gods)?

Agree completely!

Haha, this is so similar to True Beauty, though? And Sweet Mobster was similar level of cringe to this. Both have the dorky rom-com humor found in this genre of Kdramas. 🤔

Yes, I started losing interest whenever the high school flashbacks happened. I didn't mind the first few in the first episodes, but in 3 and 4 they got too long.

But it was called My Sweet MOBSTER. It's a part of his character and arc. I like how much there was so it didn't feel like he was this fake philanthropist. He clawed his way out and fought dearly to have independence from his past, and they needed to show the stakes involved so we could appreciate how far he'd come, and how much he had done for all his fellow reformed ex-cons. I thought it added a richness to the story that otherwise would have felt flat and shallow.

He talked like this in an interview I saw him in...

I concur!

Haha, thanks!

Sorry, I read that wrong. Glad you ended up liking it!

His boys know him so well. They're all attentive wingmen. 😅

Haha, oh dear. I did ask for that, didn't I? 😂
Well, you won't get an simple definition (I think that would take years to write 😂), but, first off (and get ready, this is long), I'd say it depends on the genre. Some genres I'm less familiar with, and sometimes it's more of an intuition that I struggle to define (like how I could know how to use proper grammar in a sentence, but not be able to break it down if you asked me to, which I know sounds like an excuse 😂), but here I go! A first draft shot.

Kdramas are not episodic. They have long character and/or thematic arcs which do not get realized until the final episodes, and even if there are side characters and little vignettes that come and go into the story, they will not be wrapped up, episode by episode. Nothing important is ever revealed immediately, and there is always mystery that is slowly revealed that fleshes out the characters and their stories as the drama progresses no matter the genre. The storytelling is NEVER completely linear. They are usually fairly clean as far as sexual innuendoes and crass jokes go (there's a bit of a spectrum, though), and explicit scenes are just not done. Strong language DOES feature, though. The ML is always a good person or becomes one by the end of the drama.

With more time I could try to do better to refine the main elements of the formula that ALL Kdramas share, but I'd need more time to think about it and map stuff out. 😂 Kdramas are a kind of format (think Hallmark, but more sophisticated, and a longer format) with a grab bag of formulaic non-negotioables, tropes, and cliches that get creatively mix-and-matched to form: the Kdrama.

Most dramas I can think of from these genres that don't adhere consistently to the elements I'll list below (and which "experiment" more) will always be from Netflix or Disney.

Now, as for the traditional Kdrama thriller/crime/mystery, it wouldn't have a sex scene, sexual innuendos or anything elicit or lewd beyond the implied (D.P., for instance, and My Name, diverged from the formula wildly here), and it would show the ML (since FLs are not usually focal points in thrillers, they will team up with the ML or support him, but they won't be THE person the drama is about, and there is also rarely romance at all of any kind, but there is often bromance or buddy cop dynamics (i.e. The Good Detective, Stranger, Signal, Tunnel, Beyond Evil, etc. though Flower of Evil is a tweak on these)) growing in some way by the end of the drama as the ML fights for justice against all odds (he's also either wicked smart and a prosecutor/attorney, a detective/policeman with mad fighting skills) or to find the person responsible for the crimes being committed. There will also be EITHER intense business fraud/corruption, prosecution fraud/corruption and/or police fraud/corruption, or all three showcased at some point as integral to the plot's climax. These are a few elements off the top of my head for this genre, but this is my weakest genre in terms of familiarity... so maybe I shouldn't have made claims about how they portray gangsters and what makes a Kdrama of this genre a Kdrama. Oh well.

As for the rom-com (though a few items below can overlap eith melodrama), there's a wide variety here of mix and match tropes and cliches that you will find scattered throughout Kdramas, and some slight variations in pacing for when things will happen in which episodes. The pacing differences usually have a lot to do with slow burn (which usually climax somewhere in Episodes 10-16) vs. traditional romantic build (which has the confession and/or first real kiss happening in Episodes 7 or 8). Here are a few of the non-negotiables for the rom-com formula:

1. ML is sexually pure and innocent, even if he's the biggest jerk on the planet and a spoiled brat
2. If the leads date before Episode 7, they will not have a happy ending/stay together
3. The 2ML never gets the girl (and there's ALWAYS a 2nd lead, and he's almost always in love with the FL; the love triangle comes in if he tries to fight the ML for her, which is also VERY common); if there is a drama without a second lead like this, then it's because there's an 2FL who takes this role instead towards the ML)
4. The ML is either: royalty, rich, adorably devoted to the FL no matter what she does, an expert at fighting/martial arts, extremely smart or an expert at ___________ (insert anything random here) that plays an important role in the story, or some combination of all these traits and qualities.
5. The FL is clumsy and/or trips frequently, and ends up in the ML's arms AT LEAST once in the drama, but most likely three or four times (and said fall must have a "swoosh" sound effect to accompany it)
6. Nine times out of ten, there must be a trip to the beach OR a camping trip (or both)
7. There are parents of one of the main leads featured pretty heavily in the drama, and they either fawn all over their child's love interest (so, for comedic relief), OR are the biggest stumbling block to the main couple being happy
8. If the ML is royalty or a chaebol heir (or an heir of any kind), wait for their fiance-from-childhood (or an old girlfriend) to show up and create angst
9. Someone (either ML or FL) has an Episode or more of noble idiocy that they have to work past (this usually results in a temporary breakup)
10. The FL or the ML is a better person by the end of the drama (or overcomes some momentous obstacle) and in large part due to their love interest's presence in their life
11. The main leads fail to communicate about something majorly important at some point in the drama (and most likely more than one time)
12. The FL (or ML, but less common) is saved in some way by the other and/or one of them suffer an accident or injury that usually leads to the noble idiocy or ends it.😆
13. The FL and ML (almost always) have some previous connection to each other that they discover later in the drama at some point (often a childhood connection); if it's not with the ML, the FL probably has this connection with the 2ML.
14. No explicit sex scenes, though they may be started/implied, but the lovers are always clothed or covered

If a rom-com does not have 75% of some combination of this list of items, it's not a rom-com Kdrama. It's either an imposter or a wannabe.

Romance action dramas are usually a mix of the rom-com and thriller/crime dramas (i.e. Descendents of the Sun, I Can Hear Your Voice, Crash Landing, etc.), but that's a whole new list...

Anyway, how'd I do? Are you still scratching your head and thinking, "Yeah, I think she's making this stuff up" 😂?

I've never seen My Name, but I can imagine. But sometimes I feel like Netflix fails to really do the Kdrama well, haha (I wonder if Disney will also be a bit of the same, but I can't access their dramas in the U.S. so, I wouldn't know 😐).

Sometimes Netflix's original content just doesn't cut it for me, like someone trying to write the next season in a TV show a previous screenwriter helmed and just not getting there cause they're really trying to do their own thing while claiming it's "doing the same thing as the previous writer," but not. Just because you make something with 16 episodes and Korean actors, that doesn't make it a Kdrama. What I'm trying to say is that I don't trust all their content to really get the spirit of the thing. Non-Netflix Korean crime dramas, whodunits and thrillers can really be gory, terrifying and suspenseful when they write about murderers, serial killers and kidnappers (and would certainly NEVER EVER do a sex scene), but usually they seem to make gangsters a little more gimmicky, with the telltale paunch, patterned shirts, black pants and the swagger. They're all brawns (but even then, just brute force, not sophisticated fighting skills present) and no brains (in the stereotype I'm used to). The other point I'm trying to make is that if you can point to a drama with truly terrifying gangsters, it's most likely from Netflix or Disney (and your example checks out), not one of the cable network dramas.

But Netflix gripes aside, I do see what you mean about them being a little too not-scary, but it didn't bother me that much. I mean, they're called Kitty and Bulldog gang--how scary can they be? 😆 And it just feels SO Kdrama of the writers to portray them this way. (To me!)

I just always leave Kdramas with gangsters in them with the impression that Koreans secretly feel bad for their gangsters, and find them a pitiable lot. 😢 If that portrayal is completely false to real Koreans who live in Korea, then the only conclusion I can come to is it's a consistent Kdrama gangster cliche. 🤷‍♀️