Eleison

But minus the serial killer/kidnapper plot (which is a plus, in my book!). :)

I have yet to see a Kdrama with gangsters who are genuinely intimidating in any way. 😂 I didn't see that recent drama with Ji Chang Wook, and maybe it would be the first, but all the other dramas portray them as kind of clownish and more often than not, kind of endearing and pitiable. 🤷‍♀️

In fact, this drama did a good job showing that most of the thugs didn't have a way out. They're not malicious guys at heart, but they've messed up their chances and their only way forward is the gangs cause no one else will give them any more opportunities. Even the fact that none really had spouses or children made sense, since they could just be used by their opponents to manipulate them into more shady stuff. Having loved ones is a liability.

I DO think it was completely unrealistic that the ex-cons would be executives at a huge company without training or education, but they made it work. But Ji Hwan was so lovable and earnest that everyone felt so grateful to him. It would make sense that all his employees are those who genuinely want to live better lives after messing up in the past, and who wanted to be worthy of Ji Hwan's approval and respect since he allowed them to have new lives with dignity and purpose. While it probably wouldn't work in real life, it worked in the story they told.

😂😂😂 Good luck! I procrastinate here, too. I get it. 😆

I agree they did a great job. I loved all kiddos' together and I think they all brought something unique to the ensemble.

I'm not super familiar with Cdrama or Chinese novel tropes but I totally see what you're saying. And while I do feel the similarities between the two dramas, I wouldn't venture to say either is a copy of the other.

I think tropes are impossible to escape and people get WAY too snobby about writers and creators needing to be "original." You mean those indie movies no one watches or those books no one wants to read but are super "original"? Give me a break!

Good, compelling stories don't have to be "original" to be good or even unique in their own way. We all have our favorite go-to stories or genres which always do the same thing over and over, technically, but who still manage to bring pleasure and enjoyment because of the creativity of the execution and they way choose to freshen up the formula, cliches, and tropes. I'm with you on this. 👍

Haha, nope. I always enjoy engaging the writers (or avid readers) on MDL and hearing their ideas cause they're always fun to talk to even if we don't agree on everything. They can usually see the nuance of a thing and are perceptive and insightful about characters, dialogue, pacing and plot, and I love talking nuance, subtlety, subtext and all this stuff. (And their writing is always fun to read! :)) I've encountered a few writers on MDL who don't even speak English as their first language, and even with the language barrier their writing voice and insights still come through. So cool!

Anyway, all the best with your writing endeavors! 😊

Haha, I never said the other two did badly (I loved them), I just said I thought Hyun Wook shines in this, in particular. And I saw him in this before Weak Hero and Twinkling Watermelon were a thing; it was before he was popular.

Oh, good, I'm glad! I wish I could pin it at the top so it would be readily accessible. Maybe I should make it a review and just call it "Cheat Sheet For Under The Queen's Umbrella!" 😂

Right?! Haha, I died laughing he was so cute!!

The Queen is the King's "head" wife and the concubines/consorts (the king has about 10 of them!) are his other wives with a lesser status than the Queen.

The Queen has five sons with the King (from oldest to youngest): the Crown Prince ("Crown" designates that he will be the next king) (the perfect son), Grand Prince Seongnam (the mysterious wild child 😂), Grand Prince Gyeseong (gentle and kind), Grand Prince Muan (sweet and charming but obsessed with girls 😂), and Grand Prince Ilyeong (into math and astronomy and "still just a kid").

Any other princes without "Grand" in front of their title are sons the king had with one of his concubines (aka Prince Ui Seong (actually the oldest of all the king's sons, even older than the Crown Prince, and a BAD EGG), Prince Bogeom (the most intellectually promising of the brothers after the Crown Prince), Prince Simso (good-hearted but struggles to measure up), etc.).

The "Grand Heir" refers to the son of the Crown Prince (he's about 4 or 5 years old in this), who is next in the line of succession to inherit the throne. He will become Crown Prince when his father (the current Crown Prince) becomes king, and is technically 3rd in line for the throne.

The oldest son of the King and Queen is traditionally chosen as the Crown Prince, and is given preference over the concubines' sons in the line of succession (which is why Prince Ui Seong, despite being the oldest son of the king, is not the Crown Prince since he's only the son of a concubine).

The "Queen Dowager" refers to the mother of the King, though interestingly, she was just one of the previous king's concubines... then how did the current king rise to the throne despite being the son of a concubine? 🤔

I will let you figure out the rest. :)

Hope that's a helpful cheat sheet!

That scene... my heart! 🥺

For those who are confused by who everyone is and how they're connected, I will break it down as I had to look all this up. I had to pause Episodes 1 and 2 a bunch of times to figure out who on earth everyone was because I couldn't keep up and was super confused 😂:

**Don't worry, there are NO SPOILERS below, but if you want to figure everything out on your own, don't read any further (I just put the rest under a spoiler tag because it's long and I didn't want to hog the thread, lol)***

Ack, the synopsis for this is just terrible and so confusing. I'll attempt to craft an improvement:

"This sageuk follows the fictional Joseon Queen, Im Hwa Ryeong, as she fights to protect her five sons from the machinations of evil-minded family members, ambitious concubines and scheming ministers. While hell-bent on preserving her children's safety after experiencing a tragic loss, Im Hwa Ryeong becomes a force to be reckoned with, inspiring those around her in the process--even her husband, the king--to uphold the values of a flourishing kingdom. But will she ultimately succeed in protecting those she loves?"

Oh, no, there are definitely worse kings in Kdrama land, haha! At least he gets something of a backbone whenever he teams up with/trusts the Queen! And yes, he's a weak king, but it's because he doesn't deserve the throne, and he knows it.

I think your criticisms are all valid, and I completely tracked with all of them, reasoning-wise, and yet ultimately I somehow came to a completely different overall impression. I still liked it. 😂

I felt like the stuff it was trying to "preach" about was never what intrigued me about this, so I didn't care that it didn't deliver on that front. I was more interested in Sae Ro Yi's growth and determination as he learned the value of friendship while building his life back up after being horribly ruined (and I can take or leave romance as long as there are interesting characters and stories to follow). So, it didn't feel contrived to me, but I guess my experience was also different because I went into it without expectations. I still like rewatching parts, though, which proves my initial impressions have held up over time and after exposure to many more Kdramas (and many good ones).

The one thing I completely agree with you about was the fact that Park Seo Joon acted well in this. He still managed to make me love his character even with one of the ugliest male haircuts I've ever seen! 😂

If you think it's boring after Episode 1, then the rest of it probably won't be interesting to you.

Vincenzo is the drama you're looking for, then.

Ah, the nostalgia for this one.

I think it was one of the first five Kdramas I ever watched, and I still have so much love for it.

I didn't realize it at the time, but it doesn't fit the formula in a lot of ways and does some risky things while still being very much a Kdrama (in that it includes strong character arcs, with characters transforming and growing as we watch, and I LOVE this about Kdramas).

It also packs a wallop emotionally (particularly from/because of the ML (Park Seo Joon absolutely ROCKED this drama; I just love Sae Ro Yi)), and I am still IN LOVE with the OST (particularly the BGMs, some of the tracks are up there with my favorite instrumental music of all time).

And the scene with Sae Ro Yi and his father on the bridge? Still one of my favorite scenes in a Kdrama to date.

So many things to love about this drama! Not perfect, but 100% a classic. If you want to dispute the fact, look at how many viewers it has while still maintaining an 8.4. Only Kdrama classics hold up under that many viewers' ratings!

It was positive review (and the top rated/liked review in the line-up until the user left MDL) and would have been a nice review to offset all the negative ones.

Yes, so true! I agree with all of this. It still worked without all of his backstory fully fleshed out, and I suppose in some ways, I like the freedom to fill in those gaps with my imagination. It gives Ji Hwan an element of mystery surrounding his regrets, and it suits his character and so much of what he does without ever making me confused or dissatisfied.

I really feel like character arcs were done well in this, and good character arcs will always endear me to a drama. It's my favorite thing about the Kdrama and the Kdrama format!