Kateoz

I just meant that in the novel he was depicted as a strong (not to say fanatical) supporter of FX (hence him naming him). I agree the novel doesn't have much humour - one of the many ways in which the series is superior to the book in my opinion.

Yes I have to admit that someone's comment here made me realise that one! There are quite a few cases where things connect up though, as new clues are added (Emperor's martial abilities for example), or we revisit a previously introduced character (such as 3P's Mum) and some of them I've only caught on my second or third rewatch - once the series is over, I might even be obsessed enough to fill some of the time waiting for season 3 by compiling a detailed index of links by episode!

Agree - but can't help feeling the real reason he is being forced out is not about the power it potentially gives FX, and his overreaching in game with Emperor, but also that it is clear from s1 and continued comments he has a completely different agenda for FX's future career than his other three fathers (remember how he kept on talking about transferring him, and comments this time around about brilliant career. And this is part of the reason FX has been reluctant to accept his help in my view...

Hmm I laughed happily at this scene, rather leavened a rather depressing set of events, and not entirely inconsistent with what the book says about the character as far as I can recall! Completely consistent with the mix of serious and absurd that the series has done throughout.

They are literally in every episode, and often multiple - ranges from things like the Tu Du poem (with which he won the poetry competition in s1 ad whose meaning will prove particularly apposite I think) being recited by the musician at CPP's house and stone tablet outside Overwatch Bureau; parallel events such as lunch Emperor's lunch with son; to Prime Minister's reaction when FX casually mentions having access to a level 9 martial artist (remember ep 1 testing of him to see if he has access to one and so could have killed his son).

Yep - also amazing that FX himself doesn't realise. Arrived in town with an escort of imperial guards after all, and it all goes on from there...

The special edition gives you the essentials of the plot, but I think it is really meant as a refresher for those who have already watched it once more than for new starters. I'd really advise watching the full thing - the short version cuts out a lot of character scenes, humour and more that are very enjoyable to watch. Unlike many series, there are pretty much no filler moments in this series, every bit of it is important.

I don't actually think Season 1 ever actually said that - the Dowager has some of her things, but that doesn't necessarily mean she was the one who killed her.

Agreed, there are still some scenes that I have theories about, or come back to and see something more, but not really sure I understood (most notably the first of those imperial 'family' lunches - was the Emperor trying to tell his recognised sons this is your brother, either stop trying to take him out or else...???!).

But the main issue is, the two series are written to work just like a novel - and no one starts a third into a novel and expects to understand it.

I strongly disagree, you really really need to watch s1.

The thing about JOL is that the writer believes strongly in the adage show not tell - characters rarely explain what happened or how an incident should be interpreted, and when they do, its often misleading - instead you have to put it together yourself.

And in this season, every episode has multiple references back to season 1, and only by knowing the events of that do people's reactions make any sense. Even after having rewatched it recently I'm having to go back and rewatch snippets in the light of new info. Even so, I'm also finding people's comments here are pointing out connections I'd missed!

In season 1, he says he is after their technology, but I don't think that is necessarily about immortality, more about technology and especially weaponry (he knows after all about the sniper rifle in the box).

In the novel it is clear that he already has her secrets in terms of martial arts ability, that how he became a GM. And in the novel I don't recall the Emperor looking for the temple at all (doesn't need to, he did a deal with them back in his mother's time, and remains in contact with their minions), it is FX who decides to go, really to find out about his mother and Wu Zhu.

There several clues as to the Emperor's martial arts prowess in season 1 though. First his arrows shooting through metal armour, which we are told means at least level 9. Second, that impressive backflip and side twist to save Fan Xian from Yan Xiaoyi where he suddenly realises he is in danger (when he breaks into Taiping Villa. And the third I thought was the banquet scene, where Eunuch Hong sits outside the banqueting hall to allegedly protect the Emperor - like really, with a level 9 warrior with sword sitting in the hall, could that possibly give him enough time to respond, even if he is a grand master???

Maybe I haven't read the book closely enough, but I don't think this emperor thought he could be immortal - wasn't the immortality thing the Northern Qi Emperor who sent out Xiao En and co?

Yes, apple doesn't fall that far. But I think its not so much ruthlessness as much as that FX hates being manipulated so overtly, and knows its either his father in law who is doing it given previous conversation, or worse Emperor...

Balancing powers between the princes was the reason stated in season 1 (and inferred in s2) for hi taking over the treasury, but I don't think we should take anything people say in this series at face value!

I think FX gets to take over the Treasury firstly because it is rightfully his by right of inheritance as FJ makes clear - set up as a business by his mother.

But more importantly, Princess syphoning off huge amounts of money for her assorted nefarious plans is surely the real reason - and in novel it is clear that the money is needed by the Emperor to advance his other various agendas (such as conquering Northern Qi and everyone else).

And while the censorate issue is about balancing power, it's not so much between the princes, as much as between the six ministries/censors vs the Oversight Office, the latter of which is supposed to be strictly independent, and not work in co-ordination with the Ministries. Issue is more about putting at least some breaks on Fn Xian's potential power.

But in season 2 its made clear that those elite soldiers are actually the Emperor's tiger guards, ordered by the Emperor to protect him. Fan Jian proposing it was nothing more than the Emperor expected, his usual manipulation of situations to make others think they are acting of their own accord (as we know has happened several times with fan Jian, such as the timing of bringing FX to the capital)....

@VincentGoh , clearly some of that is not going to happen (a lot needs to be cut if this isn't going to be 10 seasons!), or will happen through different characters. And I don't think this is about budget constraints.

I agree with @AleksandraSucur and others that the script is a definite improvement on the original novel on a lot of this, and possibly pointing towards a different ending.

In the examination arc, for example, where the novel has him making a lot of mistakes and looking pretty inconsistent, in the series he demonstrates a capacity to take advice which I think is pretty important in establishing his credentials to do greater things...

And the Emperor does indeed embody the lone official approach - apart from CPP and Fan Jian, not obvious that he has any genuine confidantes or followers amongst his officials, as we saw vividly in series 1 in his hilarious discussion with PM Lin over the marriage (remember the coal brazier), the magistrate, and his willingness to do mass purges of officials following CP...

I guess my point is that you need to look at their respective actions, not there words.

I'm not sure that CPP actually commands thousands of soldiers, Shadows division is a bit smaller than that, but I take your point about resources. The thing is though that Fan Jian is a minister, so you would expect him to have some connections and networks, not to mention the capacity to be proactive and plot, in a way that could be potentially employed to help FX out of some of his jams. Instead it is always FX himself plotting how to get FJ and the family out of jams.

There was one situation in s1 when FJ pre-emptively used the Imperial guards (the backstory in the novel, at least implied in the series as well, is that he is in charge of training the tiger guards and has some authority over the Emperor's personal guards more generally), but he justifies it to the Emperor as the action the Emperor would have taken if there had been time to give the order (and Emperor accepts that).

My read of the situation is that FJ is actually totally reliant on Emperor's patronage for his status, has few connections of his own, and has been promoted and given a highly ranked wife because he has taken on the role of FX's protector and as Emperors longstanding friend. He's done fine in that role, but you'd have to say that it was a pretty minimal level of personal effort for the first twenty years of FX's life!

I also thought his comment in season 1 about just protect FX, don't prepare him do great things, was the worst sort of parenting - parents are supposed to help their children realise their capabilities, not to stifle them. The reason is presumably his mother's demise, but even so.

Actually the only one of his four fathers who seems to consistently treat him as one is surely CPP.

The Emperor's relationship with FX is clearly very complex, with more to come, but season 1 did suggest he did actually care about him (to the extent that he is capable, witness his terrible relationships with his other sons!) beyond pure utilitarianism. And the scene in episode where he agrees to back FX's Spring Exam cleanout hints at that too.

By contrast Fan Jian blusters a lot to CPP and Emperor, claiming FX as family, but in practical terms does little or nothing - indeed you could see twitch of Emperor's mouth when FJ claimed he would bail him out of trouble, since in reality it has been Emperor or CPP who has actually bailed him out each time. On the face of it, in my view, FJ is a pretty poor father to any of his children as his treatment of Fan Sizhe illustrates. And where has he been on Ruoruo's marriage?

When it comes to FX, he ignored him altogether for year, hasn't formally acknowledged him (though that may be out of fear of Emperor's reaction), insisted he marry despite his own preferences, and provides little or no emotional or other support - he acts more like a courtier to FX than father.

By contrast CPP has helped him advance his assorted schemes and dug him out of trouble and possibly not told on him to Emperor a few times (though of course we don't know what happened off screen!), and most importantly comforted him after that scene. Where was FJ in all of that?

I loved that scene with Emperor agreeing to be scapegoat and asking him to apply the cream he'd made - one of the few on screen moments when he actually treats FX as a son.