Convo between FX and CPP after the hearing explains it.
I really loved that convo too - one of the few scenes when anyone genuinely acts as a father figure to FX - as opposed to using him (emperor, PM Lin), making grandiose claims about his relationship to him but otherwise mostly ignoring him (Fan Jian). CPP both comforts him, explains and prods him along the path of his mother...
So far, in comparison to S1, I "loved" S1, I "like" S2. S1 had so many memorable/re-watchable moments which I…
Hmm personally I've already rewatched quite a few scenes! Actually thought the early episodes were a bit slow and hard to get through on the first run, but rewatching them, especially after seeing what they were setting up, I've changed my view and love them.
he's like Hua Zhi's grandfather in Blossoms in Adversity
I've seen all of those bar Journey to Love.
I think the issue is primarily the billing as misleading advertising rather than not having major male or female characters per se.
The main reason many of these dramas have two main leads is because they involve a romance as a main theme, and where that isn't the case, such as JOL, it becomes harder to maintain equal roles for both male and female lead. I suspect in the case of Chinese dramas like JOL the reason for the billing has to do with official requirements for dramas (women hold up half the sky after all...) - assuming I'm correct its a positive thing, but illustrates the principle that laws can only be designed to fit 80-90% of cases, and their need to be exceptions!
In any case, my views is that, soapies aside, until relatively recently very few Western dramas really had more than token female characters (think the original Star Trek, or Morse). On the whole Korean and Chinese dramas do much better in terms of well written female characters who actually interact with each other, but typically because they interact within their own spheres (within the harem etc), commenting on/responding to the men's actions, or else are cross dressing as males (a trope I pretty much hate!).
But there are a few excellent reverse role shows that more or less manage a balance - Under the Queen's Umbrella for example, being a standout.
he's like Hua Zhi's grandfather in Blossoms in Adversity
Its fun and light fluffy, but entertaining and leads are both engaging. It's great plus is, wonderfully female centric, and worth watching for that alone as so rare. Downside is that female lead is a total mary sue, to the point of utter ridiculousness.
Ep 16- Ik the 2nd prince was manipulating li yanger but i do believe that what he said was the truth. And even…
I don't think we can assume that what someone says in season 1 will necessarily be their final word - in season 1 FX was still looking at marrying Waner then running back to Danzhou, only went North in order to maintain the marriage; now he seems committed to being an official, but things could change again. And I don't think its impossible tht they could change the ending (and I'm personally hoping they do!).
Totally agree - season 1 was great, and I rewatched it several times, but Season 2 is another level, plus the…
PS I think the censorship mostly actually helps - I find most contemporary Western dramas unwatchable due to the soft porn and relentless negativity...
I've been watching many kinds of films and dramas from various countries ever since I could remember, but Joy…
Totally agree - season 1 was great, and I rewatched it several times, but Season 2 is another level, plus the way the two seasons intersect at multiple is so well done. I've watched a lot of c and K dramas, and this is far and away the best written and acted one I've seen. I'm rewatching Nirvana on Fire at the moment just by way of comparison (since its my second favourite C drama, but powerful as that story is, this has so many more layers. Next on my all time great tv list are all now very old Western dramas (but maybe that's just showing my age!).
The novel is pretty horrible in its treatment of female characters, but I actually think the series has done a…
Agree that the show could have done more in pumping up some of the female roles (having just watched a scene between FX and Wan'er where they could have given her more agency in providing insider advice/perspective but instead FX just says they are on the same page, I've got it).
But I really don't think it is fair to see the minor female roles as tokens - while we are obviously missing the Princess Royal so far this season by way of major characters, there are lots of female characters who have distinctive arcs that parallel the minor men's, and a few pointed to so far that will clearly become more prominent in the series such as Empress and Haitang.
The problem is, this is primarily a political drama in a traditional society in which women don't have court roles unless they are pretending to be males (and that's one of the reasons why our hero wants to change things), and that limits what you can do.
Some c dramas solve this by inventing female official/military roles that if they ever existed, were the very rare exception not the norm; some insert historically impossible Mary Sue types; some by involving the harem as key players (rather than the bored prisoners they mostly really were, as this one makes clear), but while these can be enjoyable, I'm not convinced any of these solutions are all that convincing.
Perhaps we need to wait to see what unfolds? But in any case, the series already has a lot of characters, and…
I really think its a mistake to think they will follow the novel exactly on all this kind of detail - the episodes too date have seen a lot of rewriting of events that is quite different to the novel and the better for it!
First of all its his son, secondly he won't punish any of his sons hardly until they will turn against him...…
On why didn't he just use the archer to assassinate the Emperor, I think the problem is how to get himself appointed Emperor - it needs to not be easily traceable back to him, and he needs to take out CP first, preferably in a way that he doesn't get the blame for, otherwise dowager will not appoint him Emperor.
The stool scene still puzzles me too - if the four legs are supposed to be his brothers, then it is completely hypocritical given a few royals got knocked off by Emperor in his climb to the post (at least in the novel), and the longstanding rivalry to the death of the two princes. And why can't FX be his fourth stool?
But for what it is worth my speculation is as follows: first, I agree with you on the balancing power argument - I know that in the novel it was about balancing power but I don't think the series is going in exactly the same direction. The issue it seems to me is that Emperor is not that concerned about corruption per se, or there wouldn't be so much of it rife, so proving second prince is bribing people is neither here nor there in his mind. But he is conscious that royals visibly being seen to be at each others throats creating public scandal undermines the monarchy (season 1 speech where Emperor quotes someone, presumably FX's mother and Princess Royal says anyone who could say that should be executed!).
Secondly, if there was clear evidence that 2nd P (and/or Princess Royal) was plotting a rebellion that would be a different matter, but so far there is no evidence that he actually is. I think its actually pretty clear though that behind the scenes the Emperor is still trying to help FX get the evidence one way or another.
Thirdly, if Emperor thinks Second Prince is most certainly headed for the chop, perhaps wants Crown Prince to keep his hands clean and let FX do the dirty work for him. He also probably thinks CP shouldn't get too close to FX (assuming things stay true to the novel as it seems it will) given role of Empress in FX's mothers' demise.
I think too the Emperor is contradictory because the other two are so proprietary in claiming FX as theirs, and not willing to acknowledge his claim on FX, and because he suspects CPP's intentions (remember that scene towards the end of season 1).
I understand that in the novel it was a man's world and the women were accessories but it bothers me that has…
The novel is pretty horrible in its treatment of female characters, but I actually think the series has done a fair job in fixing that, with several important female roles and lots of minor ones shining in this season.
In particular, although Madam Fan did take on a mother role, I think the omission of a close mother figure is very deliberate - its actually a bit of a reversal of the usual meme of a boy looking for his long lost father, instead he is looking for his long lost mother, and finding her in the ideals she set out, her relationship with Wu Zhu, the conversation with Xiao En and so forth. And still trying to find out why she died...
The most obvious weakness in female roles is the lack of a proactive role for Wan'er as yet - just being his comfort zone is nice, but would be better if she was actively helping him more (like the scene where she helped him infiltrate the palace to replace the fake key in Season 1) or something similar. But there is still time...
I also think the description of the five as father figures is not quite accurate. He has only two who were his life as a child (WuZhu and Fei Jie) and neither of them are particularly fatherly (really a tough love master-apprentice relationship), plus a lot of males mostly locking horns over how to use him, viewing him mostly as a pawn in their own agendas.
CPP was no doubt spying on him and his progress, and at least sent Fie Jie to teach him (more than the other seem to have done), and seems to be acting like an uncle genuinely helping him and prodding him to fulfill his mother's agenda; but other two didn't write, didn't visit, and still just use him.
The only one FX seems to view as a real father figure is Fan Jian, but even there, it is actually Fan Xian who mostly acts as the adult, giving out parenting advice (what father would accept this from a real son!) and problem solving for the various crises FJ is dragged into because of him. Even in season 1, although it is never spelt out on camera, it seemed to me clear that FJ only pretended to back off from the forced marriage (teasing FX via wife) after he knew (from Emperor and everyone else including Princess by that point) that chicken drumstick girl was Waner! Yes, he's wanted to protect him but only so he can fulfill his priority of being rich (see Fan Sizhe's attempts to gain recognition from his father).
Bingo cards (or keys for a drink) for this season: we see second Prince's bare feet second prince fiddling with his ring (concealed poison???) second prince or minion thereof eats grapes Emperor doesn't eat wheelchairs star everyone eats yoghurt (!)
saw someone said that he was the one who killed the horses and u can even see him for a split second but idk if…
I'm not sure he was right though - either Wu Zhu or Shadow seems more plausible. Gao Da said didn't even get sword out of scabbard, and he certainly seemed to be standing still blinded by sand when that shadowy figure flew through the crowd...
The thing is he had no other option. If he had outed Cheng Ze, the one to suffer most would be him because all…
But he said in an earlier episode that he had no family. I was really hoping he would defect to FX (and I can't help feeling Bian looks more sympathetic to FX than Prince at the moment as well...).
Women are usually used as a prop for the ML in this kind of stories, and you will usually get overly gross characterization.As…
I think that's unfair - each of these are more than just the caricature you suggest. I actually think they did a great job with Li Yun Rui in particular, since despite her Bond villains cat, the (lack of) relationship with her daughter, her anger at losing her powerful role and much more get drawn out. And there are lots of other female characters who shine just as much as the other male minor parts. This is all the more surprising given the source material the screenwriter is working from, he has actually done a pretty good job in making some of these fully fleshed characters with strong roles.
Lord lai what is wrong with HIM??? He’s too rigid🥲🥲🥲 ep.15 is too crazy😔😔 i got nothing to say..…
Classic case of a little bit of power going to the head - we know that for years the censorite has been a useless joke; he finally gets a win with a lot of help from FX (remember his twitch of a grin in ep 10 when Lord Lai says how easy it was to get the goods on Eunuch Dai, plus access to the Overwatch files) then instead of accepting the in keeps pushing and push and pushing well beyond the limits for any monarchy.
First of all its his son, secondly he won't punish any of his sons hardly until they will turn against him...…
got to remember that back in s1 it was pretty clear Emperor suspected someone was plotting to rebel against him (hence the fishbait of FX being necessary) and clearly one of the reasons he's given him the tiger Guards and a licence to keep going (plus bringing back first prince who could presumably help defend against any rebellion) even if understandably reluctant to actually take out an acknowledged son without actual proof...
Examination Arc will start soon. But how come there is Yang Wan Li and Shi Chan Li only. Where is Hou Ji Cheng…
Perhaps we need to wait to see what unfolds? But in any case, the series already has a lot of characters, and several more likely, so if they are just making it two that may be a sensible trimming - its one thing for a 750 chapter novel another to translate it into tv. Also given that no brothel to be run, that's already one less person needed...
I think the issue is primarily the billing as misleading advertising rather than not having major male or female characters per se.
The main reason many of these dramas have two main leads is because they involve a romance as a main theme, and where that isn't the case, such as JOL, it becomes harder to maintain equal roles for both male and female lead. I suspect in the case of Chinese dramas like JOL the reason for the billing has to do with official requirements for dramas (women hold up half the sky after all...) - assuming I'm correct its a positive thing, but illustrates the principle that laws can only be designed to fit 80-90% of cases, and their need to be exceptions!
In any case, my views is that, soapies aside, until relatively recently very few Western dramas really had more than token female characters (think the original Star Trek, or Morse). On the whole Korean and Chinese dramas do much better in terms of well written female characters who actually interact with each other, but typically because they interact within their own spheres (within the harem etc), commenting on/responding to the men's actions, or else are cross dressing as males (a trope I pretty much hate!).
But there are a few excellent reverse role shows that more or less manage a balance - Under the Queen's Umbrella for example, being a standout.
But I really don't think it is fair to see the minor female roles as tokens - while we are obviously missing the Princess Royal so far this season by way of major characters, there are lots of female characters who have distinctive arcs that parallel the minor men's, and a few pointed to so far that will clearly become more prominent in the series such as Empress and Haitang.
The problem is, this is primarily a political drama in a traditional society in which women don't have court roles unless they are pretending to be males (and that's one of the reasons why our hero wants to change things), and that limits what you can do.
Some c dramas solve this by inventing female official/military roles that if they ever existed, were the very rare exception not the norm; some insert historically impossible Mary Sue types; some by involving the harem as key players (rather than the bored prisoners they mostly really were, as this one makes clear), but while these can be enjoyable, I'm not convinced any of these solutions are all that convincing.
The stool scene still puzzles me too - if the four legs are supposed to be his brothers, then it is completely hypocritical given a few royals got knocked off by Emperor in his climb to the post (at least in the novel), and the longstanding rivalry to the death of the two princes. And why can't FX be his fourth stool?
But for what it is worth my speculation is as follows: first, I agree with you on the balancing power argument - I know that in the novel it was about balancing power but I don't think the series is going in exactly the same direction. The issue it seems to me is that Emperor is not that concerned about corruption per se, or there wouldn't be so much of it rife, so proving second prince is bribing people is neither here nor there in his mind. But he is conscious that royals visibly being seen to be at each others throats creating public scandal undermines the monarchy (season 1 speech where Emperor quotes someone, presumably FX's mother and Princess Royal says anyone who could say that should be executed!).
Secondly, if there was clear evidence that 2nd P (and/or Princess Royal) was plotting a rebellion that would be a different matter, but so far there is no evidence that he actually is. I think its actually pretty clear though that behind the scenes the Emperor is still trying to help FX get the evidence one way or another.
Thirdly, if Emperor thinks Second Prince is most certainly headed for the chop, perhaps wants Crown Prince to keep his hands clean and let FX do the dirty work for him. He also probably thinks CP shouldn't get too close to FX (assuming things stay true to the novel as it seems it will) given role of Empress in FX's mothers' demise.
I think too the Emperor is contradictory because the other two are so proprietary in claiming FX as theirs, and not willing to acknowledge his claim on FX, and because he suspects CPP's intentions (remember that scene towards the end of season 1).
In particular, although Madam Fan did take on a mother role, I think the omission of a close mother figure is very deliberate - its actually a bit of a reversal of the usual meme of a boy looking for his long lost father, instead he is looking for his long lost mother, and finding her in the ideals she set out, her relationship with Wu Zhu, the conversation with Xiao En and so forth. And still trying to find out why she died...
The most obvious weakness in female roles is the lack of a proactive role for Wan'er as yet - just being his comfort zone is nice, but would be better if she was actively helping him more (like the scene where she helped him infiltrate the palace to replace the fake key in Season 1) or something similar. But there is still time...
I also think the description of the five as father figures is not quite accurate. He has only two who were his life as a child (WuZhu and Fei Jie) and neither of them are particularly fatherly (really a tough love master-apprentice relationship), plus a lot of males mostly locking horns over how to use him, viewing him mostly as a pawn in their own agendas.
CPP was no doubt spying on him and his progress, and at least sent Fie Jie to teach him (more than the other seem to have done), and seems to be acting like an uncle genuinely helping him and prodding him to fulfill his mother's agenda; but other two didn't write, didn't visit, and still just use him.
The only one FX seems to view as a real father figure is Fan Jian, but even there, it is actually Fan Xian who mostly acts as the adult, giving out parenting advice (what father would accept this from a real son!) and problem solving for the various crises FJ is dragged into because of him. Even in season 1, although it is never spelt out on camera, it seemed to me clear that FJ only pretended to back off from the forced marriage (teasing FX via wife) after he knew (from Emperor and everyone else including Princess by that point) that chicken drumstick girl was Waner! Yes, he's wanted to protect him but only so he can fulfill his priority of being rich (see Fan Sizhe's attempts to gain recognition from his father).
we see second Prince's bare feet
second prince fiddling with his ring (concealed poison???)
second prince or minion thereof eats grapes
Emperor doesn't eat
wheelchairs star
everyone eats yoghurt (!)