Kateoz

I noticed that the 'raw' version has sound track very at odds with lip movements - not sure if they are going to fix this, but does this imply had to change a lot to get past censorship? I can imagine that episode could be a bit touchy!

As referenced in one of the earlier epis when Wang Qinian gets money from Gao Da for clothes sold off to fans in towns they passed through!

But yes the costumes for this season are particularly good, esp ep 10 princes

The book said that, but I'm not sure if that is really true in real history? More difficult sure, but at least in Korean practice, it was just a matter of getting the queen or someone else (including in some cases dead queens and kings!) to formally adopt the desired heir....

Hmm, now I've seen the beginning of epi 11 I take back that interpretation - seems to be saying FX is yours; Second Prince is mine....

It sounded to me like a hint Emperor might want to acknowledge him as his son publicly.

In season 1 the Chancellor/PM (Lin Wan'ers father) mentioned FX still wasn't in the Fan families official registry (ie acknowledged as officially part of the Fan family). I assume you can only officially worship your ancestors if you have been officially adopted or acknowledged as officially part of the family, and that Fan Jian hasn't been game to do that to this point for fear of Emperor's reaction.

In the book, FX does indeed choose to and become officially a Fan, thus making it clear that he has no aspirations to be Emperor. But its unclear whether the series is going in the same direction - though given the psychotic nature of the Imperial family, I'd certainly be tempted to run!

Agreed. There were a few comments between him and Princess in season 1 about just why the Emperor picked him to run the treasury etc, and in this season about why Emperor favours him so. Link that with his insistence on FX attending those wonderful 'family' meals, and its obvious...

I disliked the novel, especially the early parts that covered series 1, as the script was just so much better. I kept reading because I wanted to know what happens, and got more into it, but really the scriptwriter has transformed this wonderfully, and although it uses a lot of the subplots, much of it and the characters are driven in different directions, so personally I'd just stick with the series (unless you are desperate to know the ending!).

Totally agree - and seemed to me actor was imitating Emperor's mannerisms when he did some of that (albeit mostly much less terrifying!), which really added to it.

And loved that FX finally realised just how much CPP and Emperor dug him out of holes in season 1...

I think the series is taking a different approach to the book - in the book, no genuine liking at all, but in the series seems to genuinely like (to the extent that a person of his personality can!) and be proud of him and have an agenda for him (which goes beyond fish bait/getting the technology of the temple). There have been several scenes, most notably those at the villa in s1, where he seems to genuinely be about to express affection/reveal all...He also said when sending him North he needed to gain experience in order to do great things, and I think he meant it.

Two problems though. The first is that though Emperor professes to care about his sons, family and seems reluctant to execute anyone, in reality he plays them off against each other like chess pieces, knows full well that the competition between CP and second Prince is gong to end with one of them dying, and has no real relationship with any of them bar FX (witness those dysfunctional family dinners inter alia).

But the Emperor is also extremely utilitarian, and FX has proven already that he has a lot to offer Emperor - he's surely worried about and using FX (and perhaps return of first prince to capital) to address threat of rebellion from Princess and second Prince; plus his literary skill; plus martial skills (potential next GM for the kingdom?).

The great development this season I think is that FX clearly has more of his measure now - has realised just how much he was protected in his early days in the capital, but also how to appeal to Emperor's interests (what was the drawing he submitted to him in secret meeting - weapon? sled design to get to North Pole???) in order to get what he wants.

That said, Emperor is clearly paranoid about potential threats to his power, and the more FZ achieves, the more that becomes an issue....

Actually all the ads featuring the actors in costume are hilarious, and now realise the two references to yoghurt (so far), including the one that looked like it was rather mocking product placement in the scenes where reentering the city after fake death, were partially product placement...

I'm certainly not yet at a level I can do subs for Chinese, but maybe one day!

But also I think translating is a special skill, and not necessarily the same as learning a language per se, which makes the struggles of the various sites understandable.

I have done some translation work in other languages I am reasonably fluent in, and it seems to me that fluency in a second language ideally demands being able to think in the language rather than mentally translate - translating is a special skill on top of that. And translating is especially challenging from languages such as Chinese which is so compact compared to English, and so where a lot not needs to be inferred from context in order to render it into reasonable English.

Actually there is lots in the novel in the next few sections that I hope won't appear in the series, or will be dealt with very differently, the author really got far too dark and depressing, and FX's motivations didn't really develop all that well in the novel, whereas they have in the series (though admittedly I read it in a fairly bad translation, so I may have missed things).

But leaving aside some of the developments along the way, generally I've noticed in lots of c dramas the ending involves the hero deciding not to be emperor/chief honcho or walks away after some token period in the job, and wondered if it was an ideological thing - in Sword Snow Stride for example by same script writer, lots of justification offered for why the hero should actually take over as King, despite ideological objections to a hereditary monarchy. If so, I'm hoping he will come up with a similar justification here (pretty easy to do with QM's agenda vs a totally psychotic, dysfunctional family!).

In season 1, we saw FX gradually moving from just wanting to enjoy a nice relaced life and runaway with his bride, to caring about the people. This series seems to be setting out to develop that much more generally, and take on more of his mother's agenda. And seemed to be lots of hints that the only way to really to that was to rule the world (the one thing she said she hadn't done). Certainly our introduction to the third prince is not at all promising, even if he does get to be mentored by FX.

But of course they may have to remain true to the book as part of the deal...

Totally agree with you on Viki's subs, and they are worse this season! Unfortunately, while I'm learning Mandarin, I'm not fluent enough yet to watch without subs (though I am watching the unsubbed epis then rewatching to see how much I got!). Not sure I can access the tencent ones in my region alas, but will do some hunting down!

I don't think we should assume that everything that happened in the book will happen in the series - my bet is they will omit that bit of the Emperor of North Qi storyline.

I actually wonder whether they are going to go the same way as the book on the emperor - some of it, sure - he clearly is the GM, as season 1 broadly hinted in several scenes (arrows piercing the armour, his backflips in Taiping Villa to protect FX, and having Eunuch Hong sitting outside rather than inside the banquet allegedly to protect him in the big banquet scene. And similarly hinting strongly at where Chen Ping Ping's loyalties really lie. But I wonder if his agenda really is to get the resources of the Temple or that's a fake front for CPP's (and others) benefit...particularly as its pretty obvious he has knowledge he shouldn't have.

Seemed to me he was genuinely regarding him as the best real prospect as heir. But we shall see!

The tv version is much longer, taking two minutes (and beautifully filmed). You can listen to it in episode 6 of season 1, starting at 17.40 mins. The Viki version (with a few minor amendments) goes 'I hope the laws of Qing are made for the people. No tolerance due to nobleness, no deprivation due to poverty. No false imprisonment, no involuntary confession...I hope there is no oppression in this world and ordinary people have the right to freedom and happiness...I wish for the day when all people are equal... There is a lot more, well worth watching.

I've actually wondered whether it is original, or taken from Mao or something???

While the Viki one isn't bad, I think the one on Kissasian is better - when they see the funeral plaque's name for example, the Kissasian version tells you AnZhi tells you its his courtesy name whereas Viki just says your other name - I think the first version is more helpful. Similarly there are a few places where the Viki translation is just a bit too literal - the argument between Fan Jian and Chen Ping Ping outside the Emperor's office is a good example, where Fan Jian says 'His death can be dubious', which makes no sense in English at all; the alternative version is 'I can't let him die for no apparent reason'. Similarly CPP in the Viki version says 'Before my death, I'll service justice to both good and bad'; the better version, it seems to me is 'Before I die I must ensure justice is served: those who owe him their lives, I'll take all their lives with me'. I also hate what Viki is doing with titles and names (suddenly everyone is Mister rather than Lord for example).

totally agree, the screenplay is much better than the book. Fan Xian in the book is not a particularly likeable character, and the script has fixed that! they've also made quite a few changes to the book, albeit keeping the basic storyline intact and using a lot of the incidents from the book at least in modified form. And personally I'm hoping for a different ending!

He finds out her is a prince in the episode with Xiao En's death, end of epi 41/beginning of epi 42, and no, the other princes don't know (as yet), though after two 'family' dinners and lots of speculation about just why the Emperor picked Fan Xian to marry Lin Wan'er and take over the Treasury, you'd think someone would work it out...

The subtitles are certainly a big improvement on the Viki version, though still not perfect.