Do you want modern or historical? Stay with Me is a modern adaption. However, I will warn you that Stay with Me…
Glad you enjoyed The Untamed. I couldn't get past the amateur acting, poor storytelling, and the portrayal of women.
Since I don't know how far you got in this drama, that flirting around is there for a reason, it was to show that this was a bl love story, and even though there was no kissing or sex, there was plenty of hugs and romantic gestures. At one point, WKX even gives ZZS a hairpin. Something that is a romantic gesture in heterosexual couples in historical dramas. These seemingly innocent gestures are sprinkled throughout the drama making it love story between these two gentlemen.
Since I don't know Korean and must rely on subtitles, it seemed to me that Robin was the original personality of the child Seo Jin. After the kidnapping , Seo Jin's personality changed to being vulnerable, cold, and aloof. As they kept saying that Seo Jin, before the kidnapping, was fun, brave, and protective of his friend. Seo Jin's cold and ruthless personality didn't come out until after the kidnapping as he wanted a way to protect himself from his father and his friend who he thought had betrayed him. So I am not really clear on why the people in the drama were saying that cold, aloof, vulnerable Seo Jin is the original personality. In the end, it didn't really matter as the two personalities merged into one. jmo
Even though he is a general, they didn’t properly show his fight scenes. The only thing they show is him going…
Actually, I have to disagree. The story is not about them as a couple or the general's story (his is a side story connected to hers). This drama is about showing women being human beings and people. It illustrates the struggles (battles both metaphorically and literally) women have gone through to be recognized for their own merits, intelligence, business acumen, and desires. The villains do get more screen time as they are a part of the narrative of this struggle.
I finished this yesterday after taking a break from it. I'm glad I did as I now understand what they were trying to do. It is a social commentary on the history of women's struggles to be recognized as human beings and people, hence the four main couples. Two showing the best way to treat women and two showing how not to treat women. The writers created a good balance in that respect. jmo
Do you want modern or historical? Stay with Me is a modern adaption. However, I will warn you that Stay with Me…
Wow, for me, it is the other way around. I slogged through The Untamed (six months) and zipped through this one (three weeks). I don't have any historical ones to recommend.
Since I haven't read the novel, nor will I, I can't be disappointed about the marquis and his portrayal. However, I think viewers have missed the point of the drama and why the marquis wasn't in it as much. This drama was her story, not his. The writers focused more on how women have battled both metaphorically and literally to get recognized for their own merits and even to be just recognized as human beings and not play things for men, hence the three couples.
For me, to show the marquis "in all of his glory" as you wrote would have overshadowed her achievements and gone against everything the drama was trying to accomplish. Women are human beings with intelligence and business acumen; have good and bad intentions; above level endurance and strength; and have thoughts, emotions, and desires. Also, they didn't need another "ruthless" male general, they had many ruthless villains to fill that role. His role was meant to be a foil of the "villains". His gentleness compared to their ruthlessness. His devotion to her needs, wants, and desires as opposed to the greed, selfishness, and cruelty of the villains towards women, hence the three couples.
finally getting into this cuz I loved the untamed. If there are more such censored adaptions pls recommend
Do you want modern or historical? Stay with Me is a modern adaption. However, I will warn you that Stay with Me ends on a cliffhanger with no second season in sight.
It is not the age gap that bothers people. It is the ages of Sang Zhi and DJX at the beginning that concerned…
That's the whole point of the drama. At what age should girls start their sexual journey and with whom (someone older or someone her own age). BTW, I don't have a problem with the age gap.
She is not technically an adult socially until 20 when she is of marriageable age, yet she is mature enough to have sex with anyone at the age of 14 (age of consent). In China, males and females are expected to remain (chaste) until they turn marriageable age. Now, we all know that just isn't how life goes as you said.
I kept thinking that Duke Su's two sidekicks were a copy of Ling Buyi's two but it never occurred to me that the…
Yes, I have heard that. That is why the drama is so aptly named. People have taken this drama as a serious drama. If you take it as a serious drama then it is full of plagiarized scenes from many other dramas. I would add Princess Wei Young to the mix as well. I, on the other hand, see it as a parody on the genre, specifically the ones I mentioned as each and every scene is used for comic effect and everything is over the top.
Since I don't know how plagiarism works in China, I don't know if parodies are considered plagiarism or works of free speech.
So I was rating 10 the first 15 eps, then the script started to worsen really fast (plot holes, unbelievable actions,…
Also, you need to take into account the rating in the orange square is the one that has not been modified for multiple accounts by the same person rating the drama. When you swipe over the orange square it gives a verified rating. This rating sometimes is higher, lower, or right on target with the orange square. It means the rater has been verified as an official member of MDL.
To help you with that, think of Victor Ma as one aspect of Sang Yan's personality (the brotherly side) and BJT…
Yes, they are connected. Hidden Love is Sang Zhi's love story. Sang Yan is Sang Zhi's brother played by Victor Ma. The First Frost is Sang Yan's love story played by Bai Jing Ting. Victor Ma said in an interview that he didn't think he could pull off a romantic Sang Yan, thus why they changed actors for Sang Yan in The First Frost.
So in Hidden Love we get his brotherly side. We only get a hint of Sang Yan's romantic side which is the "dog" side of him. The First Frost explains why Sang Yan is always broody, comedic, and full of false bravado especially when it comes to women.
As I wrote to the op, think of The First Frost as Sang Yan's romantic personality and Hidden Love as his brotherly personality. We are all different when we are around different people in our lives as huahua1005 said.
For you, the dramas themselves may not cover societal values, but the government sure thinks so. It cares about what people are seeing, hence the censorship and propaganda.
Sometimes what is popular isn't always right. What is right isn't always popular.
You have every right to not sweat over who is worse, and you can justify your thoughts by just lumping both as evil. That is the fantasy genre. But at some point we as a society have to ask, how did we get this way. The fantasy genre is a great way of exploring this idea.
Have a great week, thank you for the discussion, and happy drama watching.
I just discovered The First Frost, which is the part with Sang Yan's own love story. Loved this second drama too…
To help you with that, think of Victor Ma as one aspect of Sang Yan's personality (the brotherly side) and BJT as the romantic side of Sang Yan. Notice we do not get much hint on Sang Yan's romantic side in Hidden Love as they were saving it for The First Frost.
But I understand what you mean about trying to mesh the two sides of Sang Yan together, so you are not alone in that regard.
Yes, I watch dramas to understand a society's values on all subjects, not for entertainment. If it entertains me during the process, that is an added bonus. Unfortunately, I do not understand Chinese, and must rely on subtitles. I have been told that the subtitles are off on the channel that I watched it on, Netflix. Translation makes or breaks a drama.
I write to learn, so I will try and answer your question.
Yes, even good people must take responsibility for their actions and beliefs. Consequences of actions and beliefs can be good or bad. In this drama the women are constantly taking responsibility for what the men do and what they themselves do. None of the men, except the villains, are held accountable for their actions. Example, one of the leaders is a philanderer and is held in high regard as the leader of the sect. When the leader is killed in a compromising position (created by his illegitimate son) only then is his sin found out, but the "good" leader doesn't have to take responsibility for his actions. Instead his philandering ways are redeemed because the illegitimate son becomes a "bad" guy through his own actions, but it all stems from the leader not taking responsibility for his philandering ways.
A commenter has told me that the confession scene is where the translation is said to be flawed in the drama. In the drama, when JGY confesses to LXC about his sister, it makes it sound as if JGY knew he loved his sister in the wrong way, but went ahead and had sex with her anyway. In the end, his sin is found out because she has a child with him which he later kills. This commenter says that the translation is off because it is said that JGY married the girl he loved, got her pregnant, and then found out she was his sister. In the aftermath, JGY never touched her again and killed the baby from the union. That is what happened in the novel. Now, I have to argue if that is really the order of events in the drama. Let me explain.
Whether JGY knew his wife was his sister or not before he had sex with her, he ends up killing the baby from that union and in the end killing his sister to hide his sin. (What did the baby and sister do to deserve death). But it now asks the question, who is worse, a philandering leader (the father) or an incestuous killer (the son)? Talk about the sins of the father affecting the son. This takes that belief to a whole new level. This minimizes the fact that the father does not take responsibility for his philandering ways, and the other leaders of the different sects uphold him as a virtuous man. It is a woman who tells JGY that the woman he loves is his sister and only after he is married to her. Now, once he finds out, instead of divorcing her immediately (he doesn't have to give a detailed reason for the divorce), he hides her away in his treasure vault (another interesting image created by the writers). This is why I have to question if the translation is wrong in the drama.
What is interesting is in the novel this same philandering leader has a son, Mo Xuan Yu, who is gay and hits on all the disciples while he is at the sect compound. MXY is eventually thrown out of the sect because of his homosexuality. In the drama, the writers mirror what happens to WWX in the novel onto JGY our villain. Now interpret that as you will.
As I said, the writers had a wonderful opportunity to take the novel and create a heavy social commentary on life in China for women and homosexuals. Instead we got a censored relationship and propaganda about how women and homosexuality should be hidden away, women should take responsibility for men's actions, and women should die to protect their family. Men, good or bad, just need to live their lives with little to no consequences for their actions. Sorry, I can't perpetuate that kind of message.
Yesterday, I started watching Word of Honor. OMG, I was hooked and binged five episodes in one day. The chemistry between the two main leads is through the roof. The sexual innuendos are prevalent throughout the five episodes that I have watched, and yet it, too, is a censored danmei. As matter of fact, I feel like I am watching a remake of The Untamed only done much better.
This is just my opinion and feel free to disagree.
Thank you for the discussion and your insights. Happy drama watching.
Since I don't know how far you got in this drama, that flirting around is there for a reason, it was to show that this was a bl love story, and even though there was no kissing or sex, there was plenty of hugs and romantic gestures. At one point, WKX even gives ZZS a hairpin. Something that is a romantic gesture in heterosexual couples in historical dramas. These seemingly innocent gestures are sprinkled throughout the drama making it love story between these two gentlemen.
Happy drama watching.
Since I don't know Korean and must rely on subtitles, it seemed to me that Robin was the original personality of the child Seo Jin. After the kidnapping , Seo Jin's personality changed to being vulnerable, cold, and aloof. As they kept saying that Seo Jin, before the kidnapping, was fun, brave, and protective of his friend. Seo Jin's cold and ruthless personality didn't come out until after the kidnapping as he wanted a way to protect himself from his father and his friend who he thought had betrayed him. So I am not really clear on why the people in the drama were saying that cold, aloof, vulnerable Seo Jin is the original personality. In the end, it didn't really matter as the two personalities merged into one. jmo
I finished this yesterday after taking a break from it. I'm glad I did as I now understand what they were trying to do. It is a social commentary on the history of women's struggles to be recognized as human beings and people, hence the four main couples. Two showing the best way to treat women and two showing how not to treat women. The writers created a good balance in that respect. jmo
Happy drama watching.
For me, to show the marquis "in all of his glory" as you wrote would have overshadowed her achievements and gone against everything the drama was trying to accomplish. Women are human beings with intelligence and business acumen; have good and bad intentions; above level endurance and strength; and have thoughts, emotions, and desires. Also, they didn't need another "ruthless" male general, they had many ruthless villains to fill that role. His role was meant to be a foil of the "villains". His gentleness compared to their ruthlessness. His devotion to her needs, wants, and desires as opposed to the greed, selfishness, and cruelty of the villains towards women, hence the three couples.
Happy drama watching.
She is not technically an adult socially until 20 when she is of marriageable age, yet she is mature enough to have sex with anyone at the age of 14 (age of consent). In China, males and females are expected to remain (chaste) until they turn marriageable age. Now, we all know that just isn't how life goes as you said.
Since I don't know how plagiarism works in China, I don't know if parodies are considered plagiarism or works of free speech.
Happy drama watching.
So in Hidden Love we get his brotherly side. We only get a hint of Sang Yan's romantic side which is the "dog" side of him. The First Frost explains why Sang Yan is always broody, comedic, and full of false bravado especially when it comes to women.
As I wrote to the op, think of The First Frost as Sang Yan's romantic personality and Hidden Love as his brotherly personality. We are all different when we are around different people in our lives as huahua1005 said.
Hope this helps.
Sometimes what is popular isn't always right. What is right isn't always popular.
You have every right to not sweat over who is worse, and you can justify your thoughts by just lumping both as evil. That is the fantasy genre. But at some point we as a society have to ask, how did we get this way. The fantasy genre is a great way of exploring this idea.
Have a great week, thank you for the discussion, and happy drama watching.
But I understand what you mean about trying to mesh the two sides of Sang Yan together, so you are not alone in that regard.
I write to learn, so I will try and answer your question.
Yes, even good people must take responsibility for their actions and beliefs. Consequences of actions and beliefs can be good or bad. In this drama the women are constantly taking responsibility for what the men do and what they themselves do. None of the men, except the villains, are held accountable for their actions. Example, one of the leaders is a philanderer and is held in high regard as the leader of the sect. When the leader is killed in a compromising position (created by his illegitimate son) only then is his sin found out, but the "good" leader doesn't have to take responsibility for his actions. Instead his philandering ways are redeemed because the illegitimate son becomes a "bad" guy through his own actions, but it all stems from the leader not taking responsibility for his philandering ways.
A commenter has told me that the confession scene is where the translation is said to be flawed in the drama. In the drama, when JGY confesses to LXC about his sister, it makes it sound as if JGY knew he loved his sister in the wrong way, but went ahead and had sex with her anyway. In the end, his sin is found out because she has a child with him which he later kills. This commenter says that the translation is off because it is said that JGY married the girl he loved, got her pregnant, and then found out she was his sister. In the aftermath, JGY never touched her again and killed the baby from the union. That is what happened in the novel. Now, I have to argue if that is really the order of events in the drama. Let me explain.
Whether JGY knew his wife was his sister or not before he had sex with her, he ends up killing the baby from that union and in the end killing his sister to hide his sin. (What did the baby and sister do to deserve death). But it now asks the question, who is worse, a philandering leader (the father) or an incestuous killer (the son)? Talk about the sins of the father affecting the son. This takes that belief to a whole new level. This minimizes the fact that the father does not take responsibility for his philandering ways, and the other leaders of the different sects uphold him as a virtuous man. It is a woman who tells JGY that the woman he loves is his sister and only after he is married to her. Now, once he finds out, instead of divorcing her immediately (he doesn't have to give a detailed reason for the divorce), he hides her away in his treasure vault (another interesting image created by the writers). This is why I have to question if the translation is wrong in the drama.
What is interesting is in the novel this same philandering leader has a son, Mo Xuan Yu, who is gay and hits on all the disciples while he is at the sect compound. MXY is eventually thrown out of the sect because of his homosexuality. In the drama, the writers mirror what happens to WWX in the novel onto JGY our villain. Now interpret that as you will.
As I said, the writers had a wonderful opportunity to take the novel and create a heavy social commentary on life in China for women and homosexuals. Instead we got a censored relationship and propaganda about how women and homosexuality should be hidden away, women should take responsibility for men's actions, and women should die to protect their family. Men, good or bad, just need to live their lives with little to no consequences for their actions. Sorry, I can't perpetuate that kind of message.
Yesterday, I started watching Word of Honor. OMG, I was hooked and binged five episodes in one day. The chemistry between the two main leads is through the roof. The sexual innuendos are prevalent throughout the five episodes that I have watched, and yet it, too, is a censored danmei. As matter of fact, I feel like I am watching a remake of The Untamed only done much better.
This is just my opinion and feel free to disagree.
Thank you for the discussion and your insights. Happy drama watching.