Skibbies

That doesn't mean the narrative had to make everyone a Renzong fangirl, the Empress deserved more respect (just by virtue of her being Empress) and her change wasn't as natural as it could have been. At the time, imperalism > patriarchy, by all standards, princess should NOT have been treated like that. She could have been treated that way if she wasn't liked or simply given up by the emperor due to pressure around (perhaps that's what happened in history), but that's inconsistent with what the narrative built up to. Western society wasn't really more open at the time because it was 102x to 106x, it sucks to be a woman all around.

oh tRoP had a lot of talking and not enough showing too, and the politics aren't impressive either. But its biggest problem is its source novel is about female lead going head to head against male lead, she ends up establishing her own kingdom amongst other things, it's just not very realistic historical. but the drama team wanted it to be closer to history and "proper", so they changed it, so you end up with some rather jarring scenes (female lead is like from a completely different drama for half the drama) They really should have did it from scratch, it might have worked better (although I don't think the scriptwriter is good enough tbh, since they couldn't balance book vs history).

I think my favourite recent political was probably Advisor Alliance? and Qin Empire II, which isn't all that recent come to think of it. The rest are all from decade or two ago. I loved Nirvana in Fire, but its actual politics is barely there, lots of scheming, won too easily at times, but damn I loved the characters and themes, it's a super idealistic world though.

I understand that it's a big deal back then, and I might think oh yeah that's a neat. That doesn't necessarily mean I find it interesting. They could have made it more interesting via presentation or pacing, or focus (if I was following one of the ministers?). I shouldn't find reading the wiki or a book more interesting than drama with really pretty costume and music yknow.

Actually I think I did liked that particular debate because it was short and you saw the result, and it said a lot of Empress Dowager, Emperor and the ministers. Oh yeah I'd probably liked it more if they abandoned the book, and used Song Shenzong as the protagonist :P Then they wouldn't have to reconcile with history vs novel, wouldn't screw up balancing and making the characters behaviour hypocritical or inconsistent, and there'd be far less harem stuff, since there's no princess to focus on. I think Shenzong is more interesting, and you also still get famous people parade :D

I hope you have lot more fun than me watching this :)
Yeah the director also directed Love Me if You Dare (butchered last arc) and When Snails Falls in Love (I think my favourite of his? ) The pacing issue isn't as apparent there since they are short modern mystery/romance dramas.

It's modelled partially after Dungeons & Fighter, a kMMO, but I substitute it with any MMO with minimal problem tbh. GYH's game is LOL, but some of the screens are DoTA I think.

for political scheming, try Nirvana in Fire, Advisor Alliance, and maybe Qin Empire: Alliance. for adventure dramas, try Young Blood (this is probably closest in tone to JoL).

Ode to Joy 2 and Love Me if You Dare are also pretty bad. I haven't seen the former, the latter had a pretty butchered plot that didn't make sense and IMO cringey romance, but I think still has high rating because of Wallace Huo's face. As for drama should cut out 1/3, I think that goes for most cdramas these days, I do find most of their production's work to be decent and do have proper plot.

As a huge fan of the deeply flawed tRoP, and didn't really like Minglan for too much catty women fighting but I still could appreciate it from afar, this drama is just not worth it IMO, I'm probably going to give it an abysmal rating.

The problem with the drama is it's focused on a rather mediocre emperor, but the narrative keep trying to build him up to be a great one, and he's just not. Occasionally it'll admit his flaws, but then it backpedals and give him all these excuses. It's absolutely true that his period had a lot of famous people, which was part of what kept me going for the initial boring phase. Famous people parade was fun, but the way politics works here is just a lot of talking, there's no scheming, it's day to day ministers fussing over minor things. I would be okay with that if I actually got to see result of them fussing, but we don't, you only get the talking! The actual major events were lot less exciting than I expected (battles + political reform)

They could have gone with showing prosperity and culture of the time, which Song dynasty is known for, and it does with some festivals here and there. I wish that was the focus, or the minister was the focus, but we got the emperor instead. Later the drama transitioned into all about harem drama, with some infuriating characterisation and too many scenes on certain supporting characters (hey Madame Jia). They clearly wanted to keep both history and novel relationship but couldn't balance both so people's behaviour were inconsistent, and the Emperor was outright hypocritical, to the point I started disliking him.

I shifted my focus to Empress early on, but she got way less interesting as it went on (and kind of inconsistent & frustrating). So I started following Huirou, who can be spoilt and have her issues, but she's the only one that tells it like it is, which this drama really needs. Too bad this isn't going to end well for her. I also kind of hate the drama seems to go against the novel's theme of criticising imperalism? I started reading the wiki while tracking time just so I could see when certain characters would go away and when Huirou would grow up, and I had more fun doing that!

Then there's the director's pacing problem (he had that in Minglan too, but his style could work with slice of life nature of Minglan), the editor's questionable editing (stop splitting your conflicts in half wtf, I don't want to watch harem stuff when I just got into the politics), and sometimes the actor's acting is not up to par either (sorry Wang Kai and Jiang Shuying. the older supporting characters are great though) It's not without merit, there's bits and pieces that's great, some frames or shots, certain dialogues, little bits of characterisation that humanise a character, but when your drama is only amazing in cuts, you have a huge problem.

honestly, imo, no not really. I'm hoping we'll see the princess' story, but the way this drama is going, it's fairly likely to make me rage. The drama is slow, lacks focus, tell and almost never show the politics, the editing is questionable at times, the harem drama is infuriating, I personally find the Emperor boring initially and kind of unlikeable at the moment. There's others that like the drama lot more than me, so I'll refrain from ranting, but it's just so much wasted potential and I'm spot on the target audience (fan of production company, protag, serious historical dramas).

oh my gosh, that's such high praise. I only knew like couple people's names and some basics. It's mostly thanks to wiki and name plates every time. I've also seen four of the first six ministers I mentioned in other dramas, so I'm not as face blind but I know that feeling XD This emperor had many well known ministers, poets and artists during his time, so it's kind of neat seeing them together. It's too bad the drama tends to mention people and events (battle, diplomatic mission, peace treaty) in passing.

I started matching up historical dates to events in the drama to track time because they kept changing the calendar year names so it was really hard to tell how much time had passed. (Think it was the Empress mentioning it's been 5 years since she married, and I was like WAIT WHAT??) I also wanted to see when older Huirou would pop up & when Consort Zhang would go away (ages away lol, especially since time is slower in recent episodes), there's fair amount real events to track, but it's very easy to miss since it's all in the dialogues.

I edited my list cos I forgot some details & I got the colours wrong so look at it again. They don't really mention people's position in the drama much unless it's a chancellor, which is for the best, cos I can't keep them straight. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

No worries. :D I actually just straight up use wikipedia for this drama, cos almost all the major characters are real people. The ministers rise through rank, dark green is 8~9, green is rank 6~7, red is 4~5, purple is 3+. The chancellors are all purple and get to sit in the little room to discuss politics. Edited in the colours of their robes, but I might be wrong!

Most notable people that I think you have down but I'll mention anyways:
Fan Zhong Yan, the guy that Empress studied under when she was younger, keeps getting demoted because he opposes the Emperor on certain decisions (e.g. oppose demoting previous Empress), strategist for battle against Xia in 1040~42, heads political reform in 1043, Purple (? I can't remember lmao)
Han Qi - the kid Emperor met in ep 2?, trusted advisor, strategist for battle against Xia in 1040~42, heads political reform in 1043. Green in ep 3, Red later, Purple in early ep 30s.
Yan Shu - Emperor's teacher, he's the guy that talked Emperor from seeing his birth mother in ep 1. he tends to pop up when Emperor needs guidance or his trusted advisors aren't around, Can't remember earlier but Purple in ep 20s
Ou Yang Xiu - The guy that caught Yan Shu's eyes during exams in ep 3, didn't get no.1 because he wrote some suggestive poems LOL, He's a very well known author & poet, the kind that appears in chinese textbooks and required for recitation. ...I can't remember what colour he is XD He was out of the capital for awhile for siding with Fan Zhong Yan in early episodes (before 20).
Lv Yi Jian - Chancellor for most of first half of the drama. He has a lot of problems (e.g. corruption) but it's a decent minister, almost an antagonist. He was demoted and sick for quite a bit. Purple.
Xia Song - IDK why he has so many scenes, his political achievements were mostly before this drama's period. The most notable thing in drama's period should have been he headed battles against Xia but he sure didn't in this drama?? He's used more like an example of problems amongst ministers, sort of antagonist. Oh and also because Madame Jia keeps popping up I guess. After watching ep 33, I realised he's tied with some plot point & a minor historical note. Red I think, then Purple in early ep 30s.

Other ministers:
Fu Bi - went to Liao on diplomatic mission in 1042, heads the political reform in 1043. Red, Purple in early ep 30s.
Su Shun Qin/Su Zi Mei - No one use his actual name goddamit, the second one is his courtesy name and what you hear in the drama. Passed the exam a year after Ouyang Xiu. Works with Han Qi in the Han Lin academy (?), where Liang Huai Ji was working as a kid for quite a bit. His wife is Empress' close childhood friend. He's like the only guy in Green that pops up really often. Red in early ep 30s.
Wang Gong Chen - the guy that end up being no. 1 in the same year as Ou Yang Xiu. He married a well known minister's (Xue Gui, died right after Empress Dowager) 3rd daughter, then later his 5th daughter. Ou Yang Xiu married Xue Gui's 4th daughter. so they are brothers in law but he made fun of Wang Gong Chen when he remarried. Purple in early ep 30s. wait why is he purple? Oh, his role is head of the agency for monitoring the ministers (the agency could look for small things like not bowing properly, or could be issues with private lives, or ministers colluding with each other etc)
Bao Zheng - I haven't seen him yet but he's very well known as Justice Bao (there's multiple dramas about him)

There's bunch of other chancellors, I remember like three, but they keep changing and not too notable in the drama so it's hard to track them. There's also bunch more notable ministers and poets that might appear later but it's more easter eggs. There's one that already popped up though.
Si Ma Guang - opposed political reform in Song Shenzong period (two emperors after Song Renzong), notable for compiling a chronicle of Chinese History "Comprehensive Mirror for Aid in Government". In drama, he saved Huaiji when Huaiji was almost punished for breaking a glass bowl or something? I think he's Green.

LOL, I think the drama helps a little by putting up their name plate every time, at least a little. Description is probably too long, and the drama jumps through time and they change position like every other scene. e.g. We've seen multiple ministers leave and then come back to the capital.

As for the couple you noted, I was confused for a bit too, it's Xia Song (he appears more later) & Jia...I don't know how they translated her title. It's Consort Zhang's teacher/trusted advisor, I only realised who she was when they mentioned Zhang Bihan.

she's a child in ep 25, about 3 to 4 years old (1041?), I think she might be stuck as a kid for awhile since political reform happens in 1043 and that's probably major focus in the drama (I think it's the most notable thing the emperor does during his reign).

Both were real people. Maoze was close with the Empress enough that he was recalled by the Empress to return to the palace after Emperor died, so at the very least she considers him useful and trustworthy. Huaiji was close enough that he was sent to serve the princess when she was married off (or he just happened to be picked, who knows), and he (along with others) was seen playing and drinking with the princess. So the relationship was real to an extent.

adult huirou (there's a baby, toddler, child, younger teen, older teen + adult huirou XD) is rumoured to appear in ep 40. She's a toddler in ep 20 (1039), and historically she marries when she's 19 (1057), which looks like after consort zhang dies (1054) mhm, but that's rumoured to be ep 50 sooo mhm? They might fudge up the timeline a little though.

Um, this one is pretty kind and good, if anything, main character can't be overly dark. I think it's just writer failed at reconciling the novel AND history but still wanted to keep both.

mhmm you know I never thought gu niang was more equal in status but I guess comparatively it could be. Either way, I think in Song, it's 小娘子 'xiao niang zi' and 郎君 'lang jun' instead of gong zi (can't remember if they used this in the drama mhm)

Do check out Steven's other dramas My Huckleberry Friends & Young Blood, I loved them both a lot.

The baby is the princess from the novel yeah, adult Huairou is rumour to appear in ep 40. The story is about Song Renzong, so what you are watching IS the meat of the story.

I find the beginning slow, but it does get better. It's not just the pacing though, it's the editing that makes the story rather decentralised, it loses focus and sometimes tensions are dispelled, maybe it's trying to setup multiple relationships and hint at multiple characters, but I genuinely feel like there's better way to do that, the drama is very flat for the most part. The director excel at doing long shot and presumbly setting up atmosphere (I've seen him done it before and have loved those shots), but mostly I feel like it's wasting them away, maybe it's just me losing patience with him.

For the record, Minglan is more interesting because it introduces conflict rather early and had a strong novel base that could hold the slice of life pacing. Conflicts here just kind of simmer and dissipate so far. Historical dramas focused on emperors don't have to be this way, because I've been rewatching whole bunch of them lately, none of them are as long as this by the way, and most are far better at drumming up tension, but that's why those are classics I guess. The costumes are gorgeous though, and I'm interested in all the notable figures that's popping up left and right.

I find it better than Le Coup actually, that one had too much of will they won't they and the archetype was much more commonly found in dramas compared to this. PYHOMS is more slice of life than this, so there's more fluff and cute, but it had one of the most annoying second lead I've ever seen.

This one have some issues, and have a nosedive with one particular arc, but overall I found it pretty funny, and I liked almost all the cast. I don't care for the deviations other have mentioned, mostly because it could have been handled better, but I'll note that the drama does improve on novel with side character characterisations somewhat (where some of the additional time have been spent on), as cdramas often do. You could just....try an episode or two and decide for yourself, honestly.