UnaSpenser

The synopsis doesn't do this story justice. It leaves the reader thinking this is just a story of infidelity with an age gap. The potential infidelity is not really the central driver or point of interest in the story. Its a complex story, with some mystery/intrigue and layers.

This is where I’m at. That childlike voice is beyond irritating. And who loses 2mil and is like, “oh, well, don’t want to get anyone in trouble, so I won’t report it?” or even talk to the elders? And isn’t her sister a lawyer? Why would the sister give this task to her clearly immature sibling? At the last minute? Giving her no time to prepare?

Some of that I can swallow for the sake of plot device, but voice and immaturity are unbearable. She’s a child and should not be getting into an adult romance.

what were the mangotv titles?

Also, they made him look like an idiot. He's very astute investigator, but he didn't figure out whatever "flaw" in the Consort's story and that his mother was her assassin? Yet, QY did?

To me, letting someone user you, patronize you, abandon you, traumatize you doesn't look like a perfect husband. He looks like a tool. You can only take the forgiving and understanding business so far, before you undermine the nature of the character.

Similar to how I feel about the writers letting QM get the "love of her life" after date raping him. She poisoned people; maliciously set her sister up for a life of misery; put her entire family in danger a few times. But, this man who we're supposed to see as perfect romantic partner material is really going to have so little recognition of her psychopathic personality that he falls in love with her and they're going to be happily ever after? What kind of idiot would trust that woman for 5 minutes? She already showed him how masterful she was at deceit.

In the end, all the women were horrible in one way or another and the two lead men were patsies. And it didn't have to be that way. They had a good story going, up to a point.

ps: know that I don't take myself too seriously. I enjoy analyzing storytelling and how different cultures tell stories. and I long for more nuanced and healthy depictions of relations.

Definitely agree that she has a right to her privacy. At the same time, when things are becoming so toxic and you're the only one who can remediate it, what good is your privacy? Be an adult and clear the air so things can move along more smoothly.

And, yes, its sad. Welcome to a patriarchal world, where women are doomed no matter how they approach things.

I was noting that it is utterly infuriating that an entire story has all of its conflict built around this thing that never should have been a thing. Like, why was it even a big deal? She was married. He was an ass. Also, infertile. Its pretty damned common to turn to artificial insemination these days. They got a divorce. Then she finds out she's pregnant.

If she wanted it all to be nothing, the solution was to make it nothing by talking about it as if it were nothing. She builds up the intrigue by trying to hide the facts. So unnecessary. Especially with the co-worker/neighbor/friend/nanny - whom she coerced into to serving her, leading to a very intimate life between them.

Yeah, I don't really buy into the green-eyed monster thing. That's a mythos of patriarchy - painting women as psychopaths when they become jealous. Of course, in the context of the story, when the women are forced into cloistered lives and have almost no prospects for marriage, one can see how the competition can become ugly. It IS a set up for that.

Still, she had a marriage arrangement that she agreed to, and she was still going to become murderous upon realizing that her sister was attracting attention of the person she "like"? (but had had about zero interaction with ever. Another trope I'll never understand. Could we please start differentiating infatuation from love? anyway...... I'll stop now. lol )

It was just really weak writing, all the way throughout her character.

I had had a similar thought about them being lovers.

Echoing that the lead actor did some of the most realistic and heart wrenching crying scenes. That character was definitely tragic. He lost everyone he loved. He became something that wasn't natural to him, in order to find out what happened to his father and ended up with lover who could never really reciprocate his feelings or his devotion. He seemed so lonely to me. Even if she was around, he seemed lonely. He even noted that he had thought that she understood him, but realized that she didn't. She didn't really know how to connect. So, in the end, this lovely, sensitive soul ended up alone.

I will say that its kind of refreshing to have a lead character who isn't necessarily likeable, though you can feel support for her efforts to survive. Mostly, I can't fault what she managed to pull off, in her pursuit to avoid a life of misery or end up dead. Yet, in the end, I didn't really like her. Her sister wasn't wrong in saying that she's selfish. I'd say that she's narcissistic.

On QX: I guess he's lucky. He was raped by her and we're supposed to just get over that and see their relationship as good, because she had some sort of epiphany. No matter what, she creeps me out. And I'll never understand stories which set up things up such that the audience and/or the character has such limited choices in life partners that they accept the lesser of two evils. This guy was from a prominent family. He had an affable personality. There were no shortage of social opportunites for him. Why not leave this toxic family behind and go find a fresh new life and someone who didn't rape you, drug their own sister, try to get their other sister killed, etc.?

Re: Qiu Min

I found it hard to buy that she was willing to get her sister killed or consigned to a life of misery just because she was jealous of the attention her sister got.

It’s not as if they neglected her or abused her. She was cared for and always included in their considerations. Her sister was always treated as expendable, when she never was. The story didn’t set up enough motivation for the scope of her pathology. At all. The only explanation is misogynist writers who think all women are so pathological that petty gripes make them murderous.

Had similar analysis of Xiaoxao as you. She was astute enough to navigate life in a brothel, but was so stupid that she thought getting a man by forced marriage would be okay? And to do so by destroying his career and aiding his mortal enemy? It didn’t fit what we had learned about her..

It’s a common problem flaw with rom-coms that they lose comedy aspect along the way, which was where all the charm was. Again, Lion’s Secret had that problem.

It’s especially true if the comedy is coming from some overly-contrived schtick which gets old fast.

Whenever it happens, it feels like a bait and switch. I feel defrauded. lol

Also was totally disappointed with that ending, for all the reasons you mentions plus....

I wish writers would stop using the trope about partners/parents/friends patronizingly determining that their partner/child/friend can't handle the trauma they have actually lived through and, instead, further traumatize them with lies and abandonment or whatever. (I'm thinking about this after having just watched "The Lion's Secret", where almost the entire dynamic of the story is based on the idea that a young girl nearly drowned. Her dear friend saved her, but she simply can't face the fact that she nearly drowned, so she forgets that he even ever existed. And everyone around them tells him to disappear from her life (he was all of 10 or so and he has to just leave) and for the rest of her life, no one is ever going to tell her that she nearly drowned once. Or, when she meets him again, that he's not the horrible person she thinks he is and he's not a stranger. He knows her well and once saved her life. it was infuriating. Good actors, stupidest story line.)

If we take this story on its face, then Mdm Jin committed suicide, just at the moment that her son was finally happy with his life. She's a practically sociopathically bad mother, who not only killed her husband, but traumatized her son, once again. Yet, see seemed so warm and nice for every second of her life, up until that point! Qui Yan has so little faith in the internal strength of her so-called partner - or so little willingness to actually, you know, provide care for someone other than herself - that she determines he can't handle the truth. So, as he loses faces the loss of mother, his lover tells him she murdered her and that she never loved him and she abandons him; leaving him with no one to live life with. And, this, after he's also lost his lifelong companion.

And, why would anyone want these two to get together again? I hated her character for doing that. She already had displayed a pathological inability to bond by wanting to just go off on her own after everything they'd been through together. As a fictional story, I could kinda get the device of her needing to go away to realize that the reason she dreamt about seeing the world was because she had never had a loving home. And that, now, she would find out that the loving home he provided was more valuable that travel, if it meant being separated. Ok. She was damaged from her childhood and had to work some things out. But, that last bit, with the lies and the abandonment was too much. It wasn't some noble self-sacrifice for a greater good. It was gaslighting. It was patronizing. It was cruel.

Because, why? Somehow, its better that he thinks his lover murdered his mother and that the woman he thought was a treasured life partner never actually cared for him? and that he can never trust his own judgement about love? and that he's all alone in the world? Because, why? His political scumbag of a mom killed her own husband, but its better to preserve her reputation than to be there for him as he grieves and processes?

Also, he's a master investigator and other people figured out that there were supposedly huge holes in the story of what happened, but not him? Could we have some consistency of character, please?

What was the point of any of that ending? Why not just let the past murder be solved and let the characters go on with their lives? This isn't how it ever goes in real life. People have traumas. Long-term impacts come from not being given the support to process them properly; not necessarily from the event itself. Stortellers need to stop promoting this idea that its somehow compassionate to enable "amnesia" or false scenarios. Gaslighting is gaslighting and its very psychologically harmful.

In this story, gaslighting is an issue that the Qiu Yan character has all the way through. Its one thing to not disabuse people of misconceptions, but with her sister, instead of taking the time to explain what she was really about, or to help her sister get the nurturing she needed, she actively reinforced misconceptions as she watched her sister plummet into darkness. Partly understandable - and, frankly, the sister didn't have it bad enough to have become the psychopath she became, so that characters story was very poorly written. But, she too often relies on the crutch of "yes, I'm being this horrible person doing these horrible things!" defense, to the point that why wouldn't the other person believe her? (also, all it would have taken to rebut her sister's nonsense of "I'm just doing what you do" was to make the argument "No. I don't trample over other people and cause them harm." Again, the writers want us to believe that no one would have pointed that out?)

Ugh.... sorry, this got long. In the beginning, I was enjoying the story and the fun dynamic between the leads, but as it went along I was getting more and more frustrated and found myself wholly disliking the FL and the relationship between the leads and being angry that stories are told with these horrible messages way too often..

Also, the story about the mission which left him with PTSD was confusing. It seemed that they were mercenaries. It was unclear if their mission had any moral compass or was just a paid assignment. It was hard, then, to have any emotional attachment to the outcomes and lost lives.

Flawed but watchable.

However, I found myself wanting Liu Qing to go find a better life for himself. His love for her was all about self-sacrifice. And regardless of whether she came around, the fact is that, whenever push came to shove, she was willing to sacrifice him.

It makes no sense whatsoever that her psyche would erase the entirety of a person who rescued her, simply to avoid remembering that she nearly drowned. Nor that everyone would force him to disappear from her life so that she never had process her trauma. They basically all told him that he was expendable. Something she constantly told him.

He became so identified with self-sacrifice and erasure that he couldn’t bring himself to disabuse her of all her terrible notions of him. It was so full of pathos that I wanted him to get psychiatric care.

I wanted him to value himself and find someone who would never do that to him.

agreed. smdh

The actors in this are good and the dynamic between the leads is top-notch. But....

40 f'ing episodes that could've been 3, if the FL would just tell someone her actual story. There was no good reason for her not to just state what her marital/pregnancy situation was.

Sooooo many toxic characters - like every toxic trope out there tossed into one sludge salad.

It gets so absolutely nauseatingly tedious.

If I start with the vapid doctor/brother/rich son/friend character, it'll be a deep dive into why I can't muster empathy for any of them. I mean, wtf? He knowingly courts two sisters without telling either of them that he's doing so or that he knows of their relationship? And we're supposed to feel bad for him, when that goes south into the murkiest swamp of emotional coercion enabled by a mildewed doormat of a sister?

If you like the leads' scenes, just skip everything else. There is no real storytelling value there. Nothing new. Nothing with any profound meaning. No mesmerizing acting. A null set.

It often boggles me that people spend big chunks of time and resources to produce something like this.

I can go with that. (though I don't know why the football buy in particular wouldn't be gay. we've seen nothing from any of them to indicate their specific sexuality.)

If you're replying to me, I wasn't referring to anything romantic. You don't have to have romance to not be lonely. Akk and his two sisters are totally there for him. Why is he telling Akk that he feels lonely? Its like an erasure of their friendship.

and, hey, all 4 ambassadors of the university are gay?

this always cracks me up. the exaggerated over-representation.

Agreed that the one line just isn't enough to care about.

Also, he's talking to his best friend, who's been there for him since the moment he arrived back in Thailand and he tells him that he's lonely. Rude. Which is strange from a character who opened the story by saying he didn't like being with other people.

Lastly, someone says you can talk to them. Okay. Cool. A potential friend. Why does it have to be romantic? Its weird that that's the assumption being offered up for the viewer.

I want to support the representation of BL/GL/non-binary/trans/poly productions, but they make it hard to sit through them which such weak storytelling (and, often, subpar acting - though, I get that they basically have to draft their own lineup of actors because mainstream actors and production companies won't take it on. especially with all the fan service BS, actors must be super wary.)

A problem here is that the character Theo needs some, well, character. He seems to only exist as a rather spoiled rich boy who is considered attractive. Does he have any interests? Passions about how he wants to spend his time? What makes life worth living for him? Okay, he likes to read. But, we don't see that translate into wanting to be a writer or an editor; which is fine. But, what does he want to be? At least Akk has a pursuit. He's going to college to further that pursuit. What about Theo? If you had to spend a weekend with Theo, what you end up talking about that is anything other than shallow and vapid?