Xiang83

Unfortunately, what you are saying is completely on-point. That is why it is impossible to deny that what we have with A-Shui is a female character who is difficult to respect for the characterisation when her contributions are too indirectly subtle, and hence either becomes

1) forgettable or
2) becomes questioned for existing in the drama. You could stick any female actress in this role, and this role would be forgettable.

Honestly, what is the actual popularity of the pairing for Tang Lici x A-Shui compared to other pairings?

That is why I would prefer a well-written character who moves us to think of them in ways we connect with. Otherwise your POV questioning why A-Shui should exist in the drama is as valid as my POV of A-Shui needing improvements to be a noteworthy individualistic character in the drama while making a significant impact helping Tang Lici with his journey.

Since Shui Duopo would look at A-Shui's wrist in episode 26, just two incidents of A-Shui giving blood (one being from the lips to save Tang Lici) is enough. I would have given A-Shui a small incident of writing four to eight words per person as a note for each person on Team Tang Lici to be a gift of encouragement and appreciation because it is her, when they are reunited at the Central Plains Sword Alliance.

I would have had her recite a short poem to Tang Lici about the human condition, and explain in a way that reminds us of Fang Zhou so that when she is revealed as Fang Zhou's sister, wow! I would also have her do something with Xiaoshi (such as make dough for a food) and invite Tang Lici to join them in doing so. Tang Lici does one thing in joining them. This is all in line with A-Shui's individuality. In a drama full of literary references for weapons and sets and performances, they could definitely do this. And retain the fireworks scene.

When they get to the Palace of Fallen Jade, I would have had Tang Lici get to Wanyu Yuedan by himself as quickly as possible without her presence, with Shen Langhun by his side if someone had to help him.

It was unbelievable how she is first to find him, after fighting with Liu Yan and having restored the divine alter with Wanyu Yuedan, but not Chi Yun with his speed and skills?

Several changes would make episode 34 more powerful. The problem with the current A-Shui characterisation means Tang Lici doesn't even cry for her. A woman who throws herself at a man and goes around planting her lips on his lips- That would be a huge suspicious flag to receive, considering how much betrayal he has already received. Due to current A-Shui depiction, how fast does Tang Lici go from talking to her in episode 34 with mildly reddened eyes showing hurt from betrayal due to what he believes about her claims to him about why she does what she does, to mentioning Gui Mudan in a clear-eyed manner? A matter of several seconds.

He told Zhong Chunji he didn't understand emotions, and that Fang Zhou did not teach him how to love. His time in Zhoudi Lou appears to have equipped him only until the point of understanding family and grasping certain foundations of emotions, which he needs to fully comprehend after losing Fang Zhou and Zhoudi Lou.

If A-Shui's characterisation had been different as I suggested, episode 35 would be even more powerful, when A-Shui leaves. Tang Lici would have good reason to pause and show more emotions after reading her letter. The whole "what could have been" would have been seen as definitely present, IMHO.

That is why I focus on the characterisation of A-Shui. The main story is Tang Lici understanding the seven emotions to fulfill and embrace and embody the most noble forms of love, so how could A-Shui help with that to also be "could have been a great love" and hence lead to Tang Lici expressing regret while also learning to let go, yet maximise the impact of episodes 34 and 35? Episode 34 combined with episode 35 =Tang Lici's reactions could be interpreted as no extra non-platonic feelings except respecting A-Shui is her own person who needs to live her own life.

Below is what I put under spoilers, for preferred changes to A-Shui:

You won't get hate for asking questions XD

But on a more serious note, I'd say the flashbacks for the first ten episodes could have been handled better. I believe there should have been two long flashbacks plus one short flashback pertaining to Zhoudi Lou, with the second longer flashback being structured differently to cement how and why Fang Zhou is crucial to Tang Lici's decisions for more than 28 episodes and hint that Tang Lici is more important than he might realise, while conveying why Tang Lici must understand the seven emotions.

That would have made for a stronger narrative. Similarly. when people question why A-Shui is relevant to this drama, this is my answer of why I say so but her characterisation is weak for prioritising romance over characterisation:

https://mydramalist.com/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24219460

https://mydramalist.com/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24220168

You don't have to change your mind. As I previously said, " And if you don't, hopefully you'll feel better about it all at the end."

Different strokes for different folks. I'm sure Xifang Tao is engendering a lot of dislike for her role because she mostly isn't a good person, but the actress Chen Yao is being heralded for her performance as Xifang Tao on Chinese social media. Bao Shang En took on a fairly difficult role for emoting and given what she's supposed to convey at one point due to the plot, her role as Zhong Chunji is going to engender reactions like yours. That said, lasting anger isn't good for the health. Hence I hope you will feel better about it all at the end :)

I'd say bromance. There's a large segment of not-interested-in-romance viewers for this drama too, whereby it's also possible not to see any romance from Tang Lici's POV.

Tang Lici would never wish that upon her. If you keep watching, perhaps you might change your mind. And if you don't, hopefully you'll feel better about it all at the end.

Trying to compile a list of helpful details for the forum. And of course, listening to the OST! Gui Mudan's character song gives me so many feels about what it means to be human, just like the OP song matching the ending!

That is amazing. Thank you for the update!

My friends who watched this (male and female) all reckon A-Shui's characterisation is weak. They balked at her prominent scenes being solely for Tang Lici while totally disempowering her individuality and what she was supposed to represent. The end result was they couldn't even recommend her as a female character to others and wondered about her relevance to this drama, despite all her other subtle contributions and indirect help. Having watched enough C-Ent, the first priorities are plot plus characterisation, not romance (unless it is a xianxia romantic KISS drama ie keep-it-simple-commercial, then that is different whereby you can get high chances of success for a specific audience).

A-Shui would have benefitted from having iconic scenes, and three scenes I would have instituted would cement "family" and "home" plus her ability with words and how similar she is to someone while preserving her individuality and gentle strength. This would in turn naturally strengthen the possibility of Tang Lici having a stronger emotional reaction in episodes 34 and 35 to her as more than platonic rather than his reactions being minimally reactive. Which people does he lose his cool with? Which people does he shed tears for? My suggestions would definitely shorten Lin Yun's screentime, but screentime doesn't correlate to impact of a character.

As a result after 40 episodes, if someone asks about romance between Tang Lici and any female roles here, I refuse to claim there is a CP otherwise it is dishonest and misleading.

Tang Lici holds true to his character after fully comprehending the seven emotions, to fully embody the most noble forms of love. Tang Lici also has chemistry with everyone, so you can ship whoever you please. Bromance, yes, because the story does not deny Tang Lici's ties to Zhoudi Lou and the impact of that place on his life and choices. Throughout 40 episodes, the directors skilfully walked a thin line of catering to three factions including the no-romance faction. If you want reciprocal confirmed two-sided romance, this is not it. But if you use your imagination after seeing some scenes for that kind of romance, that will have to suffice.

Tang Lici and everyone gets a happy ending, from my POV in line with the Buddhist themes and understanding of Tang Lici's character. Unless you want spoilers for a more exact opinion, that's all I can say.

This post by RBF from 2023 has spoilers, while explaining a very important concept about Tang Lici: https://mydramalist.com/discussions/shui-long-yin/121095-sly-art-poster-analysis-slight-spoilers?pid=2851189&page=1#p2851189

You'll get your answer in episode 40.

I can understand the plot-point of why they wanted to include A-Shui. The primary problem for the characterisation of A-Shui arises from wanting to accommodate a barely-there romance easily perceived as one-sided. I would have swapped out certain scenes of A-Shui for different scenes of A-Shui, whereby A-Shui's soothing calm and intelligence and ability with words to encourage the team plus a certain little boy would have strengthened her characterisation. She is not supposed to fight. She could embody other forms of love with her words and interactions, such as cementing family and friendship. When characterisation is strong, a character becomes memorable and also strengthens the overall plot.

There's three examples I could think of pertaining to A-Shui, which would actually cement what the directors were going for by episode 35. If I'm not wrong, Kwanto mentioned that in December 2023, the plot was heroism-focused. The MangoTV trailer of this drama that I watched in April 2024 also gave me the same impression.

A-Shui is an apt example of why characterisation should be favoured over romance, when this is an adventure-focused story with multiple themes about Tang Lici understanding the seven emotions. There are many forms of love, and he grasps the most important forms so he can truly embody the most noble form of love without running away. Romance is not on that list of most important forms of love.

That sucks.

I was discussing with someone elsewhere about how the earlier episodes could have been improved. There are specific episodes I would have restructured within 21 episodes, removed the one-sided barely-there romance where Tang Lici shows minimal reactions in order to strengthen certain characterisations including a certain female character whose portrayal appears weak (several people conveyed that they think her existence isn't necessary but I believe with different scenes, would have strengthened her presence to really cement a certain impact by episode 35), and would definitely be able to include one episode or more of the Celestial Realm so we get the necessary of Ye Mo and Bai Nanzhu.

For five seconds at one point of an episode, Xue Xianzi almost achieved that XD

Even though she has a rather evil heart, she still shows her humanity by wanting to free her foster father. But when she speaks of freedom, he already decided he would kill her. Oddly enough, I used a towel a lot more over Shao Yanping than Chi Yun, although both of them created a lot of emotional sand in my eyes.

Thank you for your review. The first 14 episodes saw my sides aching.

Mandarin-speakers who completely understand the wuxia tropes will definitely have a blast. Makes me wish for more C-Drama wuxia comedies!

One could say Ding Yi has a crush or feels strong emotions for Zhang Tian Ai's character, but it's questionable if she feels the same way because of her beliefs. She has very good rapport with the two MLs from a non-platonic angle.

You and kwanto can always meet there XD

Thank you for sharing. This entire thing is nuts. No ML or FL would have been happy to see this drama airing in such a manner that saw their hard work being wrongly perceived.

Only confirms the CEO Producer and his production house intentionally planned in an unacceptable manner on how to milk and scalp the ML and FL.