This review may contain spoilers
Mame, why?
Also, Kate why? Why are you always giving a chance to Mame shows, even if you know where it leads and how it ends. Why am I torturing myself?Theoretically speaking, Mame's ideas are not bad, but for the love of God she cannot write a good story based on them. So she adds bullshit plot lines to fill the screen time that should be used on developing well written characters and relationships.
Don't Say No with better writing would be legit good BL, focused on the realistic portrayal of friends to lovers (with all the awkwardness and unsureness of it), the struggle with accepting your past, thinking it's holding you back, or affects how your loved one views you, found family trope...
But she just cannot put these ideas into writing. There are truly good scenes here and there, but they are surrounded by so much trash. What seemed like a refreshing story of two completely different individuals with different past and romantic and sexual experiences trying to make their relationship work, turned into a bingo game of what kind of external excuse will Fiat get for sleeping with people. I guess having someone who just likes sex and does not mind having different partners is still too much of a taboo topic.
As I said, it started well. I loved the scenes where the internal monologues show how both Fiat and Leo are unsure, how Fiat's past affects both of them and the choices they make in their current relationship. None of them wanted to take the first step - Leo in fear of being seen like the other Fiat’s partners, who only wanted him for his body, and Fiat in fear of looking like an easy guy who only thinks about sex. Scenes like that were truly well written, and presented both the lead's perspectives and what type of problems they need to face.
But then we’ve got the usual Mame tropes of sexual assault/rape (yes, blackmailing someone into sleeping with you when they don’t want to, and would never do it willingly is a rape). I just don’t understand the reasoning behind these themes in the majority of Mame’s adapted works. They are just cheap ways of making the show more angsty, and one of the lead characters to be either jealous or protective. The dynamics between Fiat and Leo were interesting enough to fill the screen time without adding that dark past. Why is this woman so obsessed with toxic sexual relationships and rape? It’s not like I’m completely against using these toxic tropes in the stories, but there is no novel of hers that does not include them. At best it shows her lack of skills in writing good quality conflict, at worst showcases her unhealthy view and romanticisation of assaults.
That one plot line addressing the blackmail annoyed me for one more reason - the focus that was placed on how bad Leo felt about it, and not Fiat who was the actual victim. Everyone was going around asking Leo if he was okay, Fiat included. I am sorry, but what the heck? Shouldn’t they care a little bit more about the guy that was the victim, and not his boyfriend?
Then there is the mom with psychological issues, Fiat’s suppressed trauma and the explanation behind his bad relationship with dad. Why? Was it needed? No. Not to mention, the whole topic of child abuse, like always in Mame’s adapted stories, was written with complete lack of understanding and respect.
The second couple was cute, and that’s kind of it. Pretty much the cliché stereotypical BL story of a shy good guy who is reserved about the hot playboy, who was never in a serious relationship but wants to give it a chance when he meets that cute shy potato. That said, I did like their ending a lot. It just makes sense. Relationships end, sometimes the timing is not right, sometimes there are more important aspects of your life that you should prioritize.
One of my favorite aspects of the show was Fiat’s interactions with Leo’s family. The found family trope is strong here and I’m all for it. Loved how Fiat and Leon seemed more like real brothers - bickering all the time, but caring for each other a lot. Watching Fiat and Leo’s mother just made me smile more than once. It was amazingly heartwarming and pure. If only the writing focused more on Fiat gaining the confidence while being surrounded by people who love and care for him...
Moving to the actual performance of the actors. I actually liked Ja a lot. He is quite good at conveying emotions with his eyes. The melo and romance were more believable than the few instances of him getting angry, but he just does have this soft aura about him.
And then we have First and I want to cry. This child is so cute, but he truly cannot act. Probably some of the worst dry eyes crying scenes I have seen in years. Even his less emotional scenes were sadly not the greatest. He tends to overreact with his face. I did not mind his line delivery though. It was all about not being the greatest in controlling his facial expressions.
The supporting cast did fine. There were no outstanding performances, but I also have nothing to complain about. I liked Smart a lot, but since the role itself was not exactly demanding, I can’t go into detail about his performance. He also lost me a bit in the last episode.
Production value and music are the typical Thai BL quality - good, but not breathtaking. Have to say though, the styling of Fiat is just amazing. Makes little sense for him to be the only student wearing checked long sleeved shirts over his uniform and walking around the house in a fashion show like outfits, but I still loved it.
Overall, I have no brain left. It started well, taking into consideration past Mame works as comparisons, but then it went into the same rabbit hole of toxic tropes. I don’t even want to talk and think about the stalker girl and King.
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REASONS TO EXCERCISE CAUTION BEFORE YOU WATCH
Oh, where do I start?
Blackmailing ✔️
Gaslighting ✔️
Harrasment ✔️
Trying to pass off mental health issues as just being violent and manipulative ✔️
Trying to make the lead saying that he wants to imprison the other lead romantic ✔️
(Honestly listing all the toxic stuff that happened in this series might take a whole other review.)
THE REASONS TO WATCH
Now for the reasons to watch.
The number one reason you need to watch this is because, it is in fact, not a continuation of Tharn Type. Yes, Fiat and Leo are in it, but it feels like the characters here are a more accurate representation of what they were meant to be in Tharn Type 2. The storylines of both characters are explained much better here, and there are actual explanations to their behaviour in the prequel.
And yes, watching the prequel would help you understand some scenes better, but Don't Say No works as a standalone series just as well.
The second point as to why you should watch Don't Say No is because of the cast. I haven't seen most of the actors in any major works before this, and for beginners, they're quite good. They seem to have captured the essence of their characters perfectly and it says a lot about the actors when they are able to invoke the exact emotions from the audience suitable to their actions. Yes, some of the crying scenes and the intimate scenes could have been better, but for first timers you could tell they did their best.
Finally, if neither of the arguments have convinced you, or you're still on the fence, my final defence : Leon ☺️.
Just watch it for Leon. That boy has got me and Phob falling for him. Honestly I was quite suprised that such a sweet and respectful character is present in the MAME universe, but he is, and honestly, I believe he's reason enough to watch the series.
So there you go : this has been reasons to watch or not to watch Don't Say No.
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This review may contain spoilers
The pinnacle of amateur writing
I don’t know where to start so let’s start with the story. The ‘story’ was chaotic and all over the place. Actually, there was no continuous story, just random plot points thrown here and there. It felt more like a boring anthology that mostly sustained itself on showing Leo and Fiat looking at each other with overly fake affection.I want to be honest here and admit that I was quite interested in some of the plot points, like Fiats overly controlling mother or Fiats estranged relationship with his father but, as expected, neither of these issues were given proper screentime and development. I would’ve like to know more about Fiats mother like f.e. what kind of mental issues does she have? Is she getting any help? Does she want to get better? How will this affect their mother-son relationship going forward? None of these questions were even remotely addressed. I also wish they didn’t make her behave in a comically evil way. It might’ve been more interesting to see her behave incredibly nice and indulging to Fiat, while also manipulating him at the same time. Her choice of words was very on the nose and the whole issue could’ve been handled with a lot more finesse but this applies to the whole drama, not just that one plot point.
And now that we’re on the subject, the dialogue was baaad. I’ve rarely seen such badly written dialogue but here we go. Embarrassingly cheesy and superficial. I felt like I was listening to preschoolers role playing at recess or smt.
Which leads me to to actors. Most of them weren’t good. Some were decent and some were bad. Especially First and Ja, their acting ability was pretty weak. Ja is only marginally better than First and that’s not saying much. I know that they’re still pretty much amateur actors and to hone your skills does take time and dedication, not to mention the sh*tty story and script of this drama, so I won’t give them much flag for that but still. They performed without much feelings. Any feeling they showed was only surface-level. Badly written scripts and characters do present an additional challenge to the actors and it shows. The director didn’t seem of much help here as well.
I do hope the boys get to start in a better drama with better written characters next time.
The make out scenes weren’t good either. They felt perfunctorily at best, like two robots going through the motions. I understand that the actors were probably tired and all but this shouldn’t translate onto the screen. Leo and Fiat are supposed to be totally into each other and horny 24/7 but their make out scenes made me believe the opposite.
I feel like there are two types of BLs. Either story-driven or skinship-driven. There’s nothing wrong with either and I feel like DNS was supposed to be second but bc of the robotic acting it fell flat. In TharnType, which story was a similar mess, Mew and Gulf at least delivered on that front. First and Ja unfortunately didn’t.
Ultimately, “DSN” suffered from similar problems as “TharnType”, meaning it attempted to showcase some serious issues but astronomically failed in its execution because the writer didn’t know how to either conduct proper research or simply wasn’t willing to deepen the subject and rather used it as plot device for the ‘romance’.
The directing and editing was slow and boring too and that one creepy soundtrack didn’t fit most scenes it was used on. But credit where it’s due: I did like the Op and Ed songs
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Mediocre
I’ll rate it 4/10 . I don’t really think they’re main lead material though . I feel like I just watched a side character’s love story .There were a lot of fan service scenes though. I didn’t really get into it because I just wasn’t feeling it . There was this spark that was missing . The spark that Max and tul has or off and gun or boun and prem. I don’t know if you get
Funny enough I enjoyed the comfort scenes more . I liked how fiat was so small and Leo could literally just cover him and you could see how safe fiat looked and felt with Leo . That’s my type of God when ??♀️
I can’t really say I was disappointed or excited because I wasn’t really expecting anything. There really isn’t much writers can do with a side couple that got their own story.
The new side couple was okay . I don’t have any drawn attachment to them or neither would I want to see them together again.
The conversations of the side characters were mostly meaningless and could be skipped.
You can watch the drama if you have nothing else to watch . There are a few good scenes in it.
I don’t have anything against the drama. More like I’m indifferent. Leo could improve more on his acting though . That’s all .
Unrelated but I miss Saint and Perth
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after all it's still a mame's series, so...
When I started this bl I didn't have any expectations because of who wrote it, although I liked the cast very much. In the beginning although the plot wasn't original at all, it was something you could watch to pass time. Most of the dramas (points of tension) of the series includes sexual matters, blackmail and abuse against Fiat. Because all this stuff I could understand more of Fiat's character and why he acted like that in ThranType2, and actually felt bad for him. I just wish someone would recommend him to seek mental help.The good point in the beginning was that even if the main couple was facing a lot of trouble, they always talk and somehow solve it, at least, until the last episodes when they decided to ruin the whole story that was until this point kind of okay. They refused to speak to each other and fall in a plan that was sincerely pathetic of the villains, to make them break up.
Other big point of disappointed was that in the most time Leo was showed as a prince charming and the perfect boyfriend (although some questionable attitudes) but apparently they decided to ruin the whole character in the last episode with toxic jealous, saying really problematic things to Fiat (dude, I was SCARED).
And what was that of posting the sex-tape of the villains online??? Although they were terrible people that was so wrong in many ways.
As for LeonPob they were a really cute and respectful couple but unfortunately didn't end up together. I hope there will be a happy end for them in the especial episode.
Although it was problematic, it was light compered of previous works of the writer and in the end wasn't a big disappointment because I dint expect anything else from Mame.
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It's not bad, it's just boring
I didn’t really care that much for Fiat and Leo on Tharntype 2, but I understood that they had potential to lead their own series. Ja and First are good in the roles and have chemistry, so that’s already half of the way. My problem with Don’t Say No is that the show was boring and I don’t feel like it’s got a real story to be developed.Unlike many shows nowadays, we only get two couples to follow, even though he have a good number of secondary characters. That alone would be a good aspect. But, unlike the majority of people I see commenting about DSN, I don’t really like either of the couples. Leo and Fiat are OK, they usually give cute comments, and there are a fair amount of steamy scenes too. But the writers don’t have much to do with there story, since they start the season loving each other and can only “break up” towards the end of the season. So what do they do? The create a blackmail plot every few episodes. Fiat alone got blackmailed/manipulated 3 times in less than 12 episodes, by the weird guy at the start of the season, by King and, emotionally, by his mom.
Pop and Leon, on the other hand, bore me to no limit. I think the real problem is that I really don’t like the innocent all perfect type, which Pob fit’s 100% into. Characters that are too perfect are the worst type for me. Pob reminded me too much of the worse aspects of characters like Tutor (Why R U), Pharm (UWMA) and, specially, Meen (Fish Upon the Sky). I could not get invested in their story nor was I sad to see them end up apart.
But its not all bad. I like how both family’s are 100% OK with their relationship and are the biggest shippers of LeoFiat. I also liked that they addressed, briefly, the fact that Leo and Fiat live alone in a gigantic house, with no maids. The friend group annoyed me a bit in the beginning on the season, since they took up a lot of screen time. But, by the end, I was OK with them.
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Sigh
Who tf keeps letting mame make dogshit? First of all, i was debating whether to watch this or not bc i despised fiat in tharntype (and the show as a whole) but i ultimately decided i would give it a try. From the trailer i thought this was going to be about the struggles of being in a relationship with someone you've been friend with your whole like..NOPE..they struggled with that for .2 seconds and then they got into some other bs.Ja and first's acting is not that great for having the main roles, i was much more satisfied with smart and james' acting, especially the more emotional scenes between the two.
LeoFiat's sex scenes were awful, at times it was so strangely aggressive and stiff that i skipped them entirely.
The story is very lazy and basically a copy and paste of mame's other works...she is just not a good writer.
One thing i will give mame credit for, which is the bare minimum, was confirming that Leon was pansexual, ive honestly never seen pansexual representation in a bl before so it made me smile.
I really liked LeonPobphan, they had a really healthy relationship which is something we dont often see in mame's stuff.
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pointless, disinteresting, not funny, not good show
I feel that I lost so much time in my life watching this. The story It's the most AWFUL in the whole world, man I can point out a lot of bad things in this series. This story has such BAD points, The secondary couple is a gem, good, they deserve more. But let's start with the character ''Fiat'' how can this be a good mirror of a person? man, this character It's a complete trash, the actor who plays him in the series is a good actor because this guy makes me the most person not interested in this series. Leo, It's good, the actor is good too, but this is pointless, disinteresting, not funny, not a good show, you can watch the whole series skiping there's not ''important'', the plot is bad. I'm generous to give 3 stars.Was this review helpful to you?
This is a trainwreck.
I keep seeing the phrase "there's zero toxicity!" Sure, if you don't think kidnapping and torturing your love interest counts as toxicity, or infantilizing him or discussing him with his father without his knowledge, or being overarchingly controlling, or being enraged with jealousy everytime your boyfriend talks to another person. Question - toxic or not toxic: "I want to lock you up, preventing you from seeing anyone" and "there's a demon in my heart that could harm you at any time." Was I the only one shouting "Run, Fiat! Run!"It's fine to have a D/s couple, but then you need to say it's a D/s couple and you need to see the couple agree to it. Otherwise, it looks like a psycopath and someone with Stockholm syndrome. Here Mame tried to have it both ways, and the result is not successful.
First and Ja have almost no physical chemistry at all. They have some cuddling chemistry, but that's about it. The actors are so obviously uncomfortable in the love scenes that it makes me squirm. There's always at least a foot of space between their bodies, which is quite an achievement in a sex scene. Leo always looks like he's planking over Fiat instead of f#@$ing him. And their love scenes are all exactly the same. You can count on several things: Leo will grab one or both of Fiat's hands and pin them by his head. His necklace will fall into Fiat's mouth and they'll kiss anyway, despite how that would feel on your teeth. I cringe just thinking about it. Also, metal doesn't taste good. That's why we don't eat it. And the planking.
There is no plot. I mean zero plot. Not even a teeny bit. Every week there's some sort of crisis manufactured that depends on an implausible failure of communication that will inevitably make Fiat cry, in exactly the same way he's cried in all the previous episodes, to the point that I wonder if they just shot it once and replay it every time anything at all happens, because anything at all will made him cry. Like sobbing, not adult crying. Then the crisis will be resolved with a handwave off-screen, but will be given in flashback later.
There's an ep where someone withholds from Leo info on a cartoonishly evil villain's plot to hurt Fiat unless he kisses her. So, does Leo discuss this with Fiat and come up with a course of action, or does he just tell Fiat to be on his guard (Fiat says OK and has no further questions, and Leo offers no context for what one might presume is a somewhat unusual thing to say) and kiss the girl? And if you were a betting person, what are the chances that Fiat will just happen to be on hand to witness something that took one second? This is the quality of the writing. It's so bad I sit staring with my mouth open, even though my expectations weren't really very high.
Fiat is a star athlete, and captain of the basketball team, yet he can't descend three stairs (to be fair, there might have been four stairs) without tripping, he can't tie his shoes without Leo, if he's been sobbing, which is 90% of the time, he has to be carried to bed by Leo, and he can't talk to his insane escaped-from-the-asylum mother without Leo's supervision. Leo doesn't even let Fiat battle his own evil twin by himself. (That last was made up, but if it happened it would surprise no one.) What happened to his kick-ass bad-boy character? I have a theory: In TT2, Fiat was pursuing Type, who is an uke, so he could be more aggressive and manly. Now he's with Leo, who's a huge seme Dom, so Fiat has been transmuted into the Über-uke - the most useless and fragile person ever to exist in a BL.
On to the positives: The secondary couple is so well-written that I suspect Mame has an assistant that wrote their story while her boss was off having virgin cat lady D/s fantasies about Ja, because it's really cute and healthy. Leon is aggressive, but always respectful and gentlemanly. I've seen people accuse him of being a rapey stalker, but he asked for permission to pursue Pob which Pob granted. At one point, he starts to lean in for a kiss, immediately and correctly reads Pob's body language, and aborts & apologizes for his behavior. Smart is not the world's best actor, but he's committed to the role, he's very charming, and he has a shockingly beautiful body which I wasn't expecting to see and was unprepared for. And a sweet smile, and he's not afraid of playing intimacy with another man - you really feel Leon's attraction for Pob, both physically and as a person. It's really sweet and cute.
What's more, although there's still a seme/uke dynamic at play, because Mame is incapable of imagining anything else, it's not typical Mame - Leon (the seme) is younger (although still taller, a barrier that will likely never be breached), and Pob is emotionally more mature and stronger, and is always in control, which I like - he's even the only person who will stand up to Leo & Leon's mother. He wants Leon, but he plays it cool and makes very sure Leon is serious before he's willing to let it happen. And when he's sure, he LETS IT HAPPEN, no "I'm a 19th c. 12-year old virgin, you can kiss me on the cheek once per week."
EDIT: The secondary couple are well-written from Ep 1-11. Ep 12 will make you want to go burn something down. Like Mame's house. But if you do, try to let all the cats out first. Also, have you ever tried to travel to a third-world country with a week's notice? Neither has Mame. Clearly.
I really can't recommend this. If you like the main couple and are liking the series, that feeling is not going to survive Ep 11 and you'll feel you wasted your time. I'd wait for a Leon/Pob cut and watch that.
1 for the writing. It's bad. 8 for Leon/Pob in Ep 1-11, negative 20,000 for Fiat/Leo, so I was generous and gave it a 1. Although I should subtract a point for the Leon/Pob ending, but nobody promised us a fairytale. Except they did because this was marketed as a BL. But there's nothing lower than a 1. So pretend it's a zero.
6 for the acting. If feels worse than a 6, but the material the boys had to work with was so inferior that I felt I should give them the benefit of the doubt.
5 for the music. I don't really notice it, so it's not great and not bad, and kudos for not having too many flashback scenes to sappy and overpowering ballads.
3 rewatch value. You'd have to hold a gun to my head to make me watch this again, but I will probably watch the naked Leon scene several hundred more times, so a 3. (Seriously, I would watch a Leon/Pob cut of ep 1-11, or maybe even FF through the series for their scenes).
4 overall. Probably an 8 for Leon/Pob (ep 1-11, pretending 12 didn't happen), but unfortunately they're not in it very much.
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The two C's: Consent & Communication
I'm going to be the person to say that I would compare Leo and Fiat to Gene and Nubsib from Lovely Writer. Yep, I'm going there. When it comes to asking for consent and checking in with your partner, they were on par and maybe even better about it.There were so many questions and conversations about what are you into, what are you worried about, what do you like, is this okay, are we on the same page, etc. This showed a level of consent to strive for and look up to.
Okay, onto my more detailed thoughts:
First off, this was adorable. A big portion of this drama (especially in the beginning) focuses on these two people who are starting a relationship and don't quite know how to go about it, have their own insecurities and inexperience, and are trying to overcome their nerves and fear of disappointing the other.
You don't really get to see a drama start with them already being in a relationship and showing how it's not as though everyone knows how to be together perfectly right off the bat. People get nervous and shy. People worry that some aspects of themselves may be disliked by their partner. It's exciting but terrifying to start something with someone you have loved for a long time and have longed to be with.
Also, there were so many amazing conversations being had, whether it was between Leo and Fiat or one of them and their friends. It may have taken this couple a little bit of time to have the talk they needed to but they always brought their deepest thoughts and feelings out into the open. I fell in love with the open conversations we got. Yes, for communication! Yes!
Such a healthy couple. And, I really admire this drama for its tone. It knows when to give you something light-hearted or fun and when to slow down and just have the characters talk. Just, talk. Talk about where they're at and what they're feeling/thinking. I think people forget that relationships aren't just about being physically intimate with someone--and relationships aren't so perfect and easy that you are able to read your partner's mind--they are about voicing your wants, needs, insecurities, and concerns with honest and upfront dialogue.
I loved how this drama would often set things up as though it was going to be something bad when it wasn't at all, twisted our expectations, and/or had its characters deal with legitimate conflicts/issues that fit them/the situation. Seems like this year I am learning to have more faith in my dramas and its characters. And the faith is actually being well-placed.
Once again, I have to reiterate that consent is seen as a priority here and is amazingly done. Not many dramas will set so much of their run-time and lines around this subject. Here, it is a constant.
Regarding representation, because I would be remiss not to mention it, we had a confirmed Pansexual SML, Leon. And they did it in no uncertain terms. They described how he would date/was interested in men, women, and non-binary people, they called him Pansexual at least twice, and he was also involved with a girl before he started seeing Pob. Could we ask for much more? Not really short of him saying it himself.
There were some flaws during the last few episodes but nothing that took away from the overall experience and what they were going for.
Good job, Don't Say No. Good job.
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A wasted potential
Poorly written. The lack of communication between the main couple is so annyoing. They both are grown men who should be able to discuss things and solve them. But they were acting childlish, especially Fiat. The show is literally a copy of TharnType, but a little less toxic. BUT I LOVED SIDE COUPLE!! Leon and Pob were so cute together and they were really meant for each other. But unfortunately, they met at the wrong time, as the quote says " right person at the wrong time"Also, the plot was weak and without impact and i really hated that.
I heard there will be a special episode so I hope Leon and Pob will end in good terms, I would be so mad if they would finish the series with them unhappy.
I don t regret watching it, but I won t watch it again and i recommend it only to people who want a continuation of Leo and Fiat's story from TharnType 2.
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Missed opportunity ?
This had great potential. What a missed opportunity. Honestly, I had great expectations since everyone seemed to praise it. There are too many nc scenes and too many misunderstandings, zero communication, especially at the beginning. The misunderstanding at the end was redundant. What were the screenwriters thinking? It made zero sense? "He had a reason." No, he did not, Leo should have talked with Fiat. Another point: The nc scenes overpower the actual plot. Honestly, such a story should not have needed any at all, i feel like they felt unnecessary and overshadowed the depth this series should have had. They never really talk about Fiat's trauma and what he went thru. They only take it to bed, "oh he had a mental breakdown and just calmed down? Let's take it to bed!" It made me upset, as if what Leo loved was not Fiat himself but his body. One point they touched on but never really talked about and brushed aside was Fiat's mom. The dangers of pregnancy, she turned out the way she did after she gave birth. Baby blues, post partum depression, and even going crazy and many more issues can arise after giving birth. It happened to my great cousin. Honesty it is terrifying. What made me frown was like how the dad never noticed or anyone else for that matter, I understand it can go completely unnoticed but never thought of treatment? Just kick her out of the house and get a new wife. What an ass.I'll give it 2 and a half. Just because the acting wasn't that bad and they touched on some real issues albeit with no success. Honestly as someone with trauma I did not like how they handled the whole issue with Fiat's trauma and his terrible experiences, no real actions were taken. They pretty much had the mindset "love will heal it". Which is complete bs.
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