Episodes 1-4 Discussion

This is for those who want to discuss the episodes as they progress and to return to the discussions throughout the show to add their insights.

I would title the first four episodes "Se Bu Liao" naming it after the Undying Flower. There are many references to death in these episodes and Mei Lin reminded MRJH they were both living for the dead. I feel that Jing He hasn't felt alive for a long time until his assassin decided to...kiss him.  RAWrrrrrr.

This first "phase" of the drama introduced us to the main characters

MurongJingHe, the Third Price (ML)

Mei Lin (FL)

Xiyan Prince (2ML/GreenTeaPrince)

Crown Prince (Bad Guy)

We get the back stories of these characters, how CP used a fake pendant (lingpai) to kill off an entire district/city of 100000 just so he could frame his brother JingHe and thus became the Crown Prince.

MurongJingHe spent ten years assembling a revenge plan, using Mei Lin as his personal assassin. He formed a Shadows Works Society to train her, poison her when she failed in her attempt to assassinate him and overall, acted like a crazed invalid into killing and drinking for those ten years.

Some questions and interesting stuff we can chat about:

1) What exactly was JingHe's revenge plan? It seemed so simple. Would it have work? Even his brother the CP could see through it!

2) How did Mei Lin suddenly fall into JingHe's hands as an assassin? In these episodes we see her rescuing the XiyanGreenTeaPrince and his assistant/servant--when was this? Was this before the great fire/death of her parents? She didn't seem crazy sad at the GreenTeaPrince meeting, right?

3) I love Mei Lin's personality. She was totally an assassin at this point--aloof, observant, always in control. She couldn't taste her food and we know those who have this affliction (like during COVID) lose a certain enjoyment of life. For ten years, all she could taste was revenge and she went through hellish training to get to where she was.

4) Which make us question--what kind of person is MRJH to allow a woman to suffer this kind of training just to assassinate him?  He was all ready to give her a great funeral after her death, so he'd planned on killing her after the assassination attempt, so he didn't actually want to get himself killed, just use her. But ALL THAT TRAINING to just kill him? Overkill, no? Heh.

5) GreenTeaXiyanPrince was in love with a rescuer from TEN YEARS ago whom he met for, what, half an hour? Maybe a day? Ten years...and a special knot for a keepsake. Really?! Of course, I watch all these Douyin CEO short dramas where the CEO is often looking for his special girl who blew on his bruised knee when he fell down ten years ago and then gave him her necklace or vice-versa. So I guess this is a usual C-Drama trope. Anyway, Mei Lin sure didn't get this special feeling about him. This dude was so in love, he was willing to "poison" her ala Romeo and Juliet and transport her corpse out of the palace grounds. And then what? His plan was pretty bizarre!

6) That MRJH trained Mei Lin like a Momai Warrior (the CP's sidekick's secret group) was also interesting. Why? Why not just any normal assassin? Why Momai? I have theories but would love to hear yours.

Please add any questions or any relevant observations about the first four episodes as you see fit, but try not to discuss outside of the episodes too much as I hope to start another topic of the next four or five episodes.

I think the end of Episode 4 is a good round up of the first segment of the story. We see who the players are--how they think and what their plans are. Also, we kind of see the end of the first phase of Jing He's and Mei Lin's relationship. It definitely changes after this episode, right? Here, it culminated with him whipping her (in order to save her life) and then declareing her his!

These 4 episodes--our two leads had been very raw with each other. He hadn't hesitated ten years ago to shoot her in the legs. He'd poked a hole in her neck. He'd whipped her.  She had kissed and bit him!  I like this early physical relationship very much, LOL.

 Xinai Williams:

So the book is way different. she doesn’t have the tragic story of avenging, she was simply kidnapped into being a spy. The org was not an assassination group. He created the spy network to plant spies next to officials and get intel on them for future use. He later exposes the spy network and pins it on the CP. all of these layered intrigue was not in the book. So many characters have stories that previously did not. The xiyan princess is not even talked about passed the setup plot. There was no prince. Some of the new plot points is simply to force 30+ episodes lol. That’s my take. 

Yes, I read the book. Episodes 1-4 really have nothing to do with the book, except for the shell.

My questions are more in connection with the progression of the drama story. Are you enjoying the drama? :)

 Xinai Williams:

It’s interesting, I am curious on what is it that really breaks them up in the end (leading up to her fake death) since they are already so in love. 

I bet it's either the CP or the XiyanGreenTeaPrince revealing to her that MRJH was the real Shadow Master who had trained and poison her. From the trailers, he seemed to have sent her off at one point, pretending that he didn't love her. Not sure, these trailers are deceptive!

However, based on 1-4, we know several things have been mentioned like the proverbial smoking gun: the special death powder from the Xiyan wizards that make the person stop breathing for three days (bwahaha), the Undying (actually, literal translation is Can Not Die) flower--her whispering and his repeating the word, the one year mark where she was to die due to her body condition (the doctor asked Jing He whether there would be time to make the antidote), his wedding robe which his mother made for him that he wears to commemorate HER death, the special flower cake. ALL these are clues to future incidents. YES? Can you think of others?

 sansoleil83:

The first four episodes are tightly paced and very intriguing. Watching them went by so quickly.

I thought so too. They really gave the feel of intrigue. A revenge drama thrives on emotion and I thought they lay the groundwork for hatred, revenge and anger very well. Also, the intro of the ML was very Gothic, with ravens and darkness and of course, the scary reputation. Looking back from Episode 23 now, MRJH was my interpretation of what a Chinese Heathcliffe (Wuthering Heights) would be like--someone who was going to get back what was due him, as well as get the girl, even in death. These four episodes gave me those feels.

Episode 1 is very attention grabbing and is a shorter than usual episode for maximum impact. Within this episode we are introduced to most of the key players and find out a lot about what will be going on, which you have pretty much outlined. When we meet CP we automatically sense something is up with this character just with the background music and Baron’s micro expressions (which we sense because he is outwardly supporting MJH but his expressions is suggesting otherwise). It would be safe to say most of us guessed right there and then the real culprit. The cutaways to Eunuch Liu’s expressions during the conversation between CP and Emperor hints at what kind of a person MJH is and tells us Eunuch is a good sort. Eunuch Liu obviously still has a fondness for MJH despite the alleged crimes and rumors about his behaviour. MJH’s righthand man, his guards, and household staff do not seem terrified of him and none of them are sinister (eg Qing Yan menacingly walking towards the beauties and then casually bends down to pick up the puppy). I like the use of the animals/insects to contrast the two princes.

We find out that LXY essentially plays three different characters (personas):

MJH/Third Prince - the Mad Hatter as you call him (persona)

The Shadow Master (persona/partly the real MJH)

MJH/Third Prince - himself (and as you asked, who is he really, what kind of person is he?)

As I mentioned in the other discussion post the bath scene is each of them acting out a role. In a way the early episodes is pretty much a piece of theatre that MJH creates. It was so beguiling it is no wonder it was such a come down from the high when we found out it is all an act.  We are still having cold turkey from it. 

I think MJH the Mad Hatter and The Shadow Master deserve their own spin-off.

 sansoleil83:

As I mentioned in the other discussion post the bath scene is each of them acting out a role. In a way the early episodes is pretty much a piece of theatre that MJH creates. It was so beguiling it is no wonder it was such a come down from the high when we found out it is all an act.  We are still having cold turkey from it. 

You see, IMO that is too long a time (ten years) to just put on a Mad Hatter act OUTSIDE the palace. I would have liked him a little mad, a little unstable. WHICH HE WAS in those first few episodes. You have to be a little mad and unstable to have endured what he'd endured, to go through all the pain and suffered through the hatred, to feel the sense of humiliation and betrayal from brother, father AND mother. When he was dragged away from his mother's death altar, he laughed like a maniac. I did not believe that it was an act--he was bitter and a little crazy from all that had happened to him suddenly.

So, that being said, I wanted Mei Lin just as "a little bit mad and unstable" because of her suffering and loss AND cruel training. She did show a little of this and then eh, it was as if being sent in as a Xiyan meirun suddenly cured her of her PTSD.

I have said this before--the writers had 8 extra episodes to play with, to add some good scenes for transition, for push and pull, for more Mad Hatterisms, LOL. It's not an act, it's part of the story, and yes, they heal together and that's all lovely, but give me a reason to cheer for their healing, instead of the whiplash of "huh, what happened there?"

In all writing, Episode 1 must be the foundation. It gave us the smoking gun--the Secret (Identity), the Smokescreen (of the act of Prince and Meiren) and the Seduction (Master/trainee, Lord/Meiren, personal attraction). When you establish this as writer and director, you must pull the trigger of the smoking gun and make it a Big Bang, not a piu! piu! piu! 

Don't get me wrong. I still think the segments have their own strengths by themselves. It's just not stitched together well. We need Jing He's and Mei Ren's embroidery skill!  :D

I'm totally with you on all these points. The wish list of what we should see and what we want to see is long, Be as it may what I mentioned earlier is more or less what I see on the surface level and leaves me to only be able to interpret as theatrics (it is hard for viewers to see more depth because the writers or the editing left a lot to be desired here). Mere theatrics is a shallow interpretation. I'm sure it was not intended that way because we do get some amazing segments in the first 4 episodes that add more depth to MJH and Mei Lin. Yes,  as you said they had 8 episodes spare to flesh things out and of course better embroidery skills.

I love the opening of Ep 2.  because this is the scene where I think all of MJH personas come together. He is playing the Mad Hatter but he has such a viciousness when he shoots her leg. He is testing her will, but I felt it was partly MJH being himself, displaying vindictiveness for what happened to him, becoming crippled. The lines felt blurred in this scene. Mei Lin also had a madness in her eyes. And when they both fell to the ground and stared at each other, it was powerful.  And yes, I also see the the madness, pain, humiliation when he was dragged away from his mother's altar. That was MJH. They needed to insert more of these scenes - the darkness in their characters and the push and pull between between MJH and Mei Lin. But atlas....

5 years would have been more plausible and long enough for us to believe she has become an OP assassin and in a way their traumatic past to be still  raw. People have asked about how old the characters are meant to be because 10 years is a long time. Logically MJH and Mei Lin would have to be in their 30’s for 10 years to make sense. This is close to their real age but in c-dramas it is rare to see leads to actually already be this mature.

Can’t remember in which episode but MJH and his right hand man mention their evidence and plan hinges on the fact MJH saw  Minister of Defense in the crowd during thee fire.  So yeah paper thin plan that took 10 years to hatch. Sigh.