Historical Dramas Club

 Estelll:

Hey everyone, thank you for being here, and a big WELCOME to all the new members!!!! ^_^

Also thank you to @Cho Na & @WandereR for mentioning this club to their article, you guys-gals rock!!!!!

And I'm sorry for being inactive for so long, I was still kind of lurking though so I read most of your posts, and I just updated the Currently Airing, for any mistake/omission (not just there, but anywhere), please kindly inform me! :)

No probs.  We wanted to do a bit of publicity for the club :D

So happy to see some new members who discovered us from the shared link.

Today @kumaxell posted an interesting opinion on the term "historicals" which I'll share here.  It's quite funny lol

https://mydramalist.com/profile/Tangdai/feeds/4BxjWcA?r=notif&_nid=70784197

@Paula also posted an interesting counter-argument:

https://mydramalist.com/profile/7395561/feeds/v8Ep5Fx

This is all in good fun, their posts really made the public feeds lively today!

On the current airing dramas, I'm following The Imperial Coroner now.  It's quite absorbing and smartly written, I think it's going to be an under-the-radar gem for the year.  Fans of detective investigation genre could give this a try :)

 WandereR:

I'm following The Imperial Coroner now.  It's quite absorbing and smartly written, I think it's going to be an under-the-radar gem for the year.  Fans of detective investigation genre could give this a try :)

I'm a fan of good detective investigation. Currently watching Detective L but I watch case by case from time to time  :))  I'm gonna check The Imperial Coroner out :)

...Since the long ballad I don't know what to watch. I was thinking maybe something totally different but...nothing comes to mind. So thanks I will give it a try :))

 Estelll:

Oh well. xD Personally, I agree with another commenter on "Historical" being an umbrella term, and it's also the way I've used it here in this club!! :) 

I think that's the way this term is used on MDL, so it makes sense to use it for the club, but I don't actually think it's the correct usage of the term. The proper umbrella term would be "costume dramas," that is any drama where the actors wear historical (or quasi-historical) costumes.

If we set aside all the Chinese terms and just stick to English ... What genre would you use to describe The Lord of the Rings? You would say fantasy, or maybe high fantasy, epic fantasy, etc. Would anyone ever call The Lord of the Rings historical? No. Therefore, should Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms be called historical? None of the characters are even human. The plot entirely revolves around reincarnations and conflicts between deities. It's honestly even less related to history than TLotR, which at least depicts quasi-medieval human kingdoms. The proper genre for TMoPB would be fantasy, high fantasy, maybe costume fantasy. Things like xianxia and xuanhuan are Chinese subgenera of fantasy (I haven't watched enough wuxia to say where it belongs, it might depend how politically focused it is, e.g. Nirvana in Fire seems like a historical drama, not a fantasy drama, despite the flying martial artists).

As I said in a comment on Kumaxell's post, I think historical should be defined as "stories where the plot revolves around politics, society, or life in a historical or quasi-historical setting." Of course, that in itself is a rather broad definition of historical, because you could say that only something based on actual historical figures and events is historical and fictional stories should be called period dramas, historical fiction, etc. I think that might be too nit-picky for the purposes of MDL, since so few dramas are historically accurate anyway. However, I do think there is a huge difference between fantasy dramas about deities, cultivation, etc. and dramas about people living in historical times.

Of course, I'm not saying we should change the name of the club. As long as MDL uses "historical" as the umbrella term, it makes sense for the club to use that term as well, but personally, I think MDL should change how they tag these genres.

 Shenmi:

I'm a fan of good detective investigation. Currently watching Detective L but I watch case by case from time to time  :))  I'm gonna check The Imperial Coroner out :)

...Since the long ballad I don't know what to watch. I was thinking maybe something totally different but...nothing comes to mind. So thanks I will give it a try :))

Nice, I love ancient detective genre, they're fascinating and The Imperial Coroner is quite similar to Miss Truth but better in most aspects.

There's another one but not sure when it'll be aired, @Jenny was sharing the teaser on Feeds. It's called Luoyang and stars Wang Yi Bo.  Sharing her post on it here:

https://mydramalist.com/profile/ZzJennyzZ/feeds/2EZVQSA

It looks really gorgeous!

 xinya:

Things like xianxia and xuanhuan are Chinese subgenera of fantasy (I haven't watched enough wuxia to say where it belongs, it might depend how politically focused it is, e.g. Nirvana in Fire seems like a historical drama, not a fantasy drama, despite the flying martial artists).

This is a complicated one.  LoTR is fantasy and a work of fiction so totally agree with you there.

Xianxia and Xuanhuan, on the other hand, are closely related to folklore and mythology.  Some characters are worshipped as deities and the concept of cultivation is related to religious beliefs.  Therefore, they are not entirely 100% fiction.  Of course, dramas make everything look spectacular with the effects but well, they're deities so... lol.

 xinya:

@WandereR

Sort of related to the genre topic here ... remember a few days ago when we were debating whether Mr. Sunshine was a sageuk? I actually went and looked up the definition of sageuk and sidaegeuk. I think you're right that Mr. Sunshine should be considered a sidaegeuk/period drama, but something set in the early 20th century definitely could be called a sageuk if it was actually based on real historical figures (it's not a time period thing). The difference between sageuk and sidaegeuk is whether it is based on historical facts. Mr. Sunshine is sidaegeuk because it's set against a historical backdrop, but the characters are not historical figures. Really most of the dramas we call sageuks are not actually sageuks, rather fusion sageuks or maybe sidaegeuks, since they aren't really based on historical facts. The usage seems very similar to how in English a movie about WWI would probably be called a historical film, but Downton Abbey is a period drama.

Ah, this is really interesting.  I think my usage of the term is not entirely correct either.  I've always referred to costumed dramas (as in Korean traditional attire) as sageuk.  Anything westernised, even back to the late Joseon era or the transitional period right after (eg Mr Sunshine) as period drama.  But they would fall under the term historical.  But you're right that most of these fictional stories should be considered as fusion.

If we really dig into it, it can get even more convoluted :D

 WandereR:

This is a complicated one.  LoTR is fantasy and a work of fiction so totally agree with you there.

Xianxia and Xuanhuan, on the other hand, are closely related to folklore and mythology.  Some characters are worshipped as deities and the concept of cultivation is related to religious beliefs.  Therefore, they are not entirely 100% fiction.  Of course, dramas make everything look spectacular with the effects but well, they're deities so... lol.

TLoTR is also very closely related to mythology, religion, literature, etc. Parts of the Silmarillion are extremely similar to the Bible. Dwarfs, elves, dragons, goblins/orcs, trolls, wizards, etc. are all based on mythology/folklore. Many of the Valar are modeled off gods from Greek or Norse pantheons. The influence of medieval literature, such as Beowulf or chivalric romances is very clear. Elements of ancient, medieval, and Catholic ideology are present (Tolkien actually called TLotR as "Catholic work"). In some ways TLoTR has a more authentically medieval world than something like GoT, which took direct inspiration from historical events. It's world-building is a bit more creative and less derivative than xianxia or xuanhuan, which sometimes pull things a bit more directly, whereas Tolkien will always at least give something a new name (Eru Ilúvatar is God, just with a different name), but it's pretty much the same thing: a fantasy world based on a synthesis of religion, myth, and folklore in a historical-seeming setting. Unless a drama is faithfully adapting a specific legend/folktale, I really don't think it's much different. 

We could also use a different example. Percy Jackson, which very directly adapts Greek myths, is considered a fantasy book, and even if it was set in historical times, I'm pretty sure it would still be called a fantasy book. Tale of the Nine-Tailed (as well as many other Korean fantasy dramas) takes elements from shamanism, folklore, Buddhism etc.  I don't think being based on actual religions or folklore make something not fantasy. In fact, I suspect the majority of fantasy works are somehow derivative of actual religions, myths, folktales, etc.

Anyway, I'm not sure it matters much since I doubt MDL will change their tagging ...

 xinya:

We could also use a different example. Percy Jackson, which very directly adapts Greek myths, is considered a fantasy book, and even if it was set in historical times, I'm pretty sure it would still be called a fantasy book. Tale of the Nine-Tailed (as well as many other Korean fantasy dramas) takes elements from shamanism, folklore, Buddhism etc.  I don't think being based on actual religions or folklore make something not fantasy. In fact, I suspect the majority of fantasy works are somehow derivative of actual religions, myths, folktales, etc.

Anyway, I'm not sure it matters much since I doubt MDL will change their tagging ...

Yup, you're right.  Those are very good points. 

For me personally, as long as I'm having fun with that I'm watching, I don't really pay much attention to tagging :)

 WandereR:

Nice! I love your Custom List, can I bookmark it? Hehe. I'm looking forward to most of them. I've been waiting for Zhao Ge for years, I suspect if it ever gets released, it'll be done like how The Wolf was aired lol.

Love this club! Despite the tagging being a bit weird ;-) I'm one of those people with an 'eclectic' taste, I like a bit of everything, and it's sure possible to find that here.

Speaking of lists like Estelle's Upcoming Chinese Dramas I'm Keeping An Eye On, these are really nice. Is it possible to have lists for this club, or only personal lists? Would it (technically) be possible to have a list more then one person can edit? It would be great to have a couple of list as starter-kits in a specific genre, like the best wuxia series, the best historical political dramas etc.

Isn't it glorious that the only problem we have is just not knowing what to watch because we have too much choice?