I <3 good guys.

I have only seen up to ep 5 of Buzzer Beat but i hv to nominate Naoki as a good guy he is so sweet & considerate to everyone around him. Even someone who has betrayed him horribly he still has the generousity of spirit to wish them well. He is a proud (in a good way) & righteous ....Perfect

Elisabetta wrote: Strange, it seems that Yamapi played a lot of good guys. But I wasn't able to finish Buzzer Beat, I gave up like 2-3 episodes before the end. Naoki was good, but he rather cared too much about others, and never did anything for himself, he was easily influenced to give up for sake of others, I didn't like that. But then, it had probably the only real kissing scene in japanease dramas ever, so it deserves to be recognized.

if u think that kiss was something u need to see matsujun's kisses in kimi wa petto. now there's a guy who kisses for real in his dramas.

amrita828 wrote: I couldn't agree more. To be very honest, Naoki got a little on my nerves in the long run. I think I've stated before that being "good" is not always a good thing. Excuse the pun. What I mean is that the words good and bad can't be defined in general terms.
Naoki is good inasmuch he respects his coach romantic interest for the girl, but his respect does not extend to the feelings of her. How is this good? Being good out of a principle can harm others, so, per definition, it is not good anymore.
I don't know if I'm making much sense, but I often feel like my idea of good is not the one read in dictionaries. I think so quite often, with asian dramas. All those humble heroines, who are considered very good at heart, end up hurting the feelings of other just to do the "honorable" thing. How is Mae Ri (from infamous Mary Stayed Out...) a good girl? In order NOT to hurt enyone, she keeps them all suspended: this is worse than an arrogant queen, in my book.
All those "good" second male leads, who don't get a no for an answer until they see their beloved one walk the aisle with another: how is this good? I can't stand men who intepret a "no" as if it were a "perhaps". As I see it, having respect for someone implies respecting his/her views and who this person wants to be with.

Sorry... that was a tirade. Don't mind me, I'm in a grumpy mood today. ;)

i can understand what u're saying for the most part. the only part i disagree with is the 2nd male lead comment. do u think they should give up without a fight, without even trying? In reality when u like someone it's not easy to just let go of those feelings. and most times i dramas i end up rooting for the 2nd lead male cuz they tend to be better to or better for the heroine than the lead. they usually tend to be the good guys while the lead is a major tool. would u want to see the guy u like end up with a b*tch no matter how much he likes her? idk. but how much can u say someone likes someone else if they can just give up without trying to get their feelings across to that person? do they really like that person if they can just give up? i get that at some point they will have to move on but idk... lol. i was still hoping for rui to win makino's heart up until the wedding which he officiated. lol silly me.

but good is also relative as in who is it good for? the heroine, the lead or the 2nd lead. i guess it's a question of what do you value more in the situation: being selfish or selfless? in buzzer beat u would have wanted naoki to be more selfish and the coach to be selfless.

...does that make sense?

amrita828 wrote: You make sense.:) Mostly when your example is Hana Yori Dango, where the second lead was clear enough from the beginning and actually stepped aside, until Domyoji proved to be such an idiot/jerk for the nth time and even Makino was hesitant.
But the same can't be said about, say, Shu from Ikemen Desu Ne (or his korean counterpart), Seo Jung Woo from My Girl (K), Yuan Da Ying from Hot Shot (Tw) - Yu Min Hyuk from Full House (K), Jung In from Mary Stayed Out (K) etc. And this just to mention the male second leads. I do not expect them to give up without even trying: I expect them to accept a "no thank you, I'm in love with someone else".
You ask me how I would react if the person I love were in love with a b*tch. I'd do nothing: he has to be clear about his feelings, not me. No amount of me stalking him, crying, throwing tantrums or play the fake friend would make him open his eyes about the "bad woman" and turn to me. On the contrary, such a behaviour would turn ME into a bad person, incapable of accepting things, with no self-esteem or being obtrusive and delusional.

so then in the end u would chose to be selfless (do nothing) if u saw that the person u love was in love with a b*tch. i would chose from 2 options i would either be like u and do nothing (selfless) or be a good honest friend. not a fake friend. i'm not gonna push my feelings down his throat but somehow he won't be oblivious to them and i also would try to get him to see why this other girl is not good for him. i don't think that would make me a bad person. i may not try to advance myself but i wouldn't want to see him with a bad person or in a bad rel'p even if he doesn't end up with me...i guess that's selfless too...right? lol

i actually also disagree about shu in ikemen desu ne. from the beginning i was rooting for him. to me he was the better of the 2 guys. he was looking out for her before ren even noticed there anything good about her. he just did it silently which was my issue with him. he did everything from behind the scenes and allowed ren to be in the fore front. idk. i keep wondering how things would have worked out if miko knew how shu felt from the beginning. would she have still fallen for ren who was a complete jerk to her in the beginning but eventually turned out to be decent or would she have fallen for shu the guy who cared instantly? i didn't want shu to give up mainly cuz even as cute as ren and miko were i never forgave him for being so mean to her in the 1st few epis. i also didn't like the way in which he spoke to her throughout the drama sometimes.

good guys do finish last in asian dramas.

amrita828 wrote: The premise: I love these kind of debates, and I hope neither the thread "host" nor you will be vexed by my keeping it going. :)
I don't know if doing nothing equals being selfless. I've always believed that before loving someone we need to love ourselves. And because I'm very protective of my opinions and choices, I consider it a must to respect the opinions and choices of others. This is why, if the man I love - or a friend, no big difference - chose a partner I consider "not good" I would never interfere. How am I supposed to know what's best for someone else? Of course if I knew the person in object is a criminal I would step forward, but in any other case, my friends and beloved ones must have the complete freedom not only to choose, but to make their own mistakes and learn from them (in case). This for me is a sacred principle, a courtesy I expect from others and hence give in return.

As for Shu. Yes, we may wonder what kind of relationship would Mio and Shu have had, had he been a little braver from the beginning and expressed his feelings. Personally, I doubt something would have changed. Because Mio, with her giving and generous attitude, saw something in Ren the others couldn't see: his loneliness. And this is, in my opinion, what attracted her. She felt she could do more for Ren than she would for Shu, and she needed to feel useful. Some people are like this: for them love is tightly related to feeling useful. I agree that Ren doesn't always treat her well, but she is often dense and somehow the tension between them is what makes them into a good couple. The dynamics of a love story aren't the same for everyone, in real life as well as in dramas. Mio meets Shu and thinks he's good older brother material; she meets Ren and falls in love with him. I respect that. And I think I would have done the same.

For my part, as the person who started the thread, I don't mind at all. It's a very nice disscusion.

I can also add from my life experience, though it doesn't concern a guy that I liked, but my best friend, who was in a bad relationship for 2 years. There is no point in telling others they shouldn't like someone, because he's bad person. The only thing you can do is to give advice how to soften the situation, to cheer them up and most important be there for them, when they loose that obssession, but they need someone to help them detach. But you cannot really do anything when they are in love. She always said that I give her such wise advice, but she never listened to it :) Luckily it ended.. eventually...

Back to dramas, what I really can't stand, be it 'good' or 'bad' characters is indecisivness- is it really so hard to decide whether you like someone, or rather to like someone but to not to do anything about it, because somebody said you shouldn't? Giving in, being overly concerned with whims of others doesn't make you a good person. That's why I was so impressed with Yuuki from First Kiss, even if he wasn't as dashing as some other male leads, and he was just a shy, ankward doctor (Hiraoka Yuta was quite cute in this), when people came and demanded of him to do this or that about his love life, he was always politely telling them to f*** off, because it's not their bussiness. Which I think shows his concern about Mio - you really shouldn't give dramatic ups and downs in love for girls with sick heart :)