The Grave Sin of Infidelity: Forgiveness or No, what should Oh-aew do?

Since last episode I wanted to gather my thoughts and look from a different perspective to see why Teh did what he did. But no matter how positively I try to see, infidelity in my dictionary is the gravest sin one can commit in a relationship or else. No matter what is the reason. 

In Teh case, even the reason is not there. Him being enchanted by his peer is a natural thing, but he was so lost in the charm of Jai, he didn't even realise that he was doing wrong thing. The first touch of their thighs, when he felt something to the emotional so called "plum wine" story, why he didn't realise he was attracted to him, but he was doing wrong. 

My main concern is, how come Teh was not concerned? when he was feeling butterflied for Jai? Why Jai knowing he is leading Teh into wrong direction, didn't stopped. The main problem is, Teh never took Oh serious. Oh loved him way too much but Teh always took Oh for granted. And again my main issue is how come Teh didn't realised his mistake, the moment he crossed the line and in fact he was disappointed when Jai said use this to act in rehearsal, after they committed the grave sin of cheating. 

So I know myself, even though If I come to forgive the person, a knot will always be there of one crime. That will never be the same as it was before. So forgiveness maybe, but same as before no. 

What is your opinion and take on this? What should Oh do after witnessing a horrifying crime Teh did?  

As much as I agree, there remains a difference between experiencing and cheating. You don't experience something by shoving your mouth onto others, while your own person is always there for you. 

Yes you can make mistake, but Teh doesn't seem to realise his mistake. Even in the promo for EP4, he is oblivious to the fact that what he did was wrong, and Jai unintentional or intentional, played a huge rule in swaying him. 

I don't agree, and what exactly both experience? break up and fall in love with others? and come back Sorry this is not how love works. As much as you can be rational, experience in name of infidelity is forbidden in any case. Experience all you want but end your relationship. Would you go and sleep with someone when you have a partner or spouse? Just to experience? Or you yourself suggest your other significant to experience? I am sorry that's not love and having said this, love is not always spring, there is winter, autumn, cold and summer as well. It experience all seasons, but infidelity is not allowed in any season or phase of life. It destroys the very essence of any relationship. 

I don’t know. I’m still processing some of my feelings from Episode 4. On one hand, I’ve always found cheating very immoral, but I think some fans have really, really overreacted to it simply because the show never really was a BL and has always been an LGBTQ drama. BL is about fantasy; queer drama is about reality. At first I was livid with the choice - more because I thought it was unlike Teh to do what he did than anything else - but I’ve since become a bit more circumspect.

I will say this: all things considered, what Teh did was really, really  mild compared to what it could’ve been. It was one kiss; there was an explanation for it, even if Teh wasn’t honest about it; nothing came of the relationship, since the feeling wasn’t mutual; and Teh paid an enormous price. I can’t help but think that was a pretty deliberate choice on behalf of the writers. It seems like they went for the very mildest form of cheating they could imagine that would still be enough to break a relationship. It irritated me a lot when he said it had never occurred to him to break up with Oh (I mean, seriously? He didn’t think this would be a problem?), but there was a lot of poetry in the events in Episode 4, too. Teh finally gets exactly what he’s been chasing since childhood right at the moment he’s lost everything else that’s important. Here he is sitting with an acting contract, but he’s lost all his friends, his relationship of three years, and his identity. Him being asked to delete those photos broke me completely independently of all the other drama in the show. It showed his failure to think things through entirely. He so enjoyed being out and being with Oh, and completely ignored, even after the homophobia Oh dealt with in episode 2, that becoming anything remotely relevant in the film industry would push him deep into the closet, and that sucks.

And with Oh, I liked that he finally put himself first, grew a spine, and got some self-respect. He nailed it in that conversation with Teh. The problem, in the end, wasn’t that Teh didn’t love him, but that he lost trust and knew it signified deeper issues in the relationship that would fester if things continued. I also appreciated the irony that Oh’s friends - the ones Teh constantly criticized - were in the end his rock to get him through, because he developed a deeper relationship with them than Teh ever did with the people in the drama club. The significance of Oh keeping the talisman but sending everything else back to Teh was powerful too - like he knew what he should do, but couldn’t let go entirely.

I don’t know how things are ultimately going to shake out. The final episode looks very intriguing, and again from what we saw in the last episode, Teh learned a very big lesson and paid a very big price for less than a minute of impulsivity and its fallout. I will say absolutely that I find the way a lot of fans reacted to be way over the top, and in a lot of cases really crossed a line. Harassing writers, producers, and actors on social media said a lot more about the fans than the production, IMO,  and in the end it’s just a TV show (though if I’m honest, I wish Nadao stuck up for their actors more and didn’t force them to do damage control for decisions the writers made, not the actors). The writing has been unquestionably exceptional; it’s just a storyline that people have a problem with. The consequences are logical, justified, and extremely well-acted. I’ll be watching Episode 5 next week.

My two baht worth...

First baht..

I agree with Katia0415 first and foremost this is LGBTQ cinema not fluffy BL drivel.  If 'fans' don't like realism and want Unicorns and Rainbows, by all means look elsewhere.  Hating on the director, writers, producers, actors and even the producton company (Nadao) because you don't like how the story is evolving is childish.  This is, after all just a story for entertainment purposes that no one is forcing you to watch.  It occurs to me that some viewers have too much time on their hands and should get out more!  Billkin and PP, the director, production company and all the other cast members have done a excellent job bringing this story to life.  It is realistic and raw but  at the same time poignant and a breath of fresh air in a sea riddled with tropes and cliches.  

Second baht..

I have read a myriad of comments on social media, some very constructive and some just plain mean with a majority of these directed at Teh or rather the character of Teh.  On the flip side there were a lot of comments of pity and support for Oh-awe that he deserves better (Bas?) and has finally grown a set in breaking it off with Teh.  Fair enough this was to be expected (at least the constructive comments anyway).

Now, ponder this, what would have happened if when Teh and Oh were in the car, Oh-awe outright told Teh he saw him kissing Jai and demanded an explanation, instead of the "catch you in a lie" scenario?  He did this with Jai but why wouldn't or couldn't he do this with the one person he loves and cares for the most?  Would Teh have come clean?  Would he admit to an attraction to Jai?  Would they finally hash out their issues with some meaningful communication like the end of episode 2? Just a thought, wouldn't have been nearly as exciting though!  And lets face it, how many twenty somethings would think like that!

I am very much looking forward to the finale in which I would like to see them not reunite, instead become each others BFF again.  Well wait and see...

To Ianto: yes, I agree. The whole BL thing is weird and toxic and unhealthy for the people in the film productions (which is always what I end up thinking about - in the end the cast and crew are people, for god’s sake!), and I think what ITSAY proved is that you don’t need fantasy to tell a good, solid story. Honesty works better and has more integrity. It also feeds into a fan culture that I think is fundamentally unhealthy for the industry, actors, and really fans as well. Maybe it’s just me being a Westerner, but that blurry line between reality and fiction and way too much catering to fans, demanding too much of the actors and not giving them space, really gets under my skin. I watched what happened on social media over the last week or so in horror. It’s perfectly legitimate to critique a story, character development, or story line; anything beyond that, which becomes too personal and emotional, is unbelievably invasive and should not be tolerated by the company. The sooner Asia can get away from the whole BL genre and start telling honest, reality-based stories (and give their actors some space), the better off and more respected they’ll be.

@Nyx Medina Yes, that was in fact happening. It kind of made me sick - it’s like, you (the super fans) keep saying you love these two actors (and it’s true that Billkin and PP play off each other extraordinarily well, in whatever context their acting in, because they work well together and trust each other), and yet you’re doing this?? Do you realize how you may be completely dissuading them from acting again or working together again? I wouldn’t blame them. Check Twitter, especially the Thai and Chinese tweets (just hit translate) and oh, in some cases, it was REALLY ugly. Some fans simply cannot separate reality from fiction, likely because they’re young and immature. But what the entertainment industry does to cater to them doesn’t help at all. They need to set limits, because there are clearly some fans that have none. Terrible.

And yes, I agree with you on the second point as well. At first, my reaction was, “Oh, that’s really awful, I don’t know if they deserve to get back together,” but thinking it through - the context, their age, their inexperience, and the fact that Teh really was intentionally taken advantage of but nonetheless is having to pay a really heavy price (which he deserves), I’m reserving judgement pending the events of the next episode. We shall wait and see.

In any case, kudos to the team at Nadao for their honesty, excellent storytelling, top-notch acting, and respect for their characters. It has its flaws, but IPYTM is definitely a few cuts above every other Thai drama out there, except ITSAY. Just very well done (thus far). I hope the ending is solid, too.

All of your opinions are welcome and you right in your own thoughts. 

Unfortunately as much as we deny the BL existence, is a truth. And ITSAY and IPYTM exist in this world. Our views are just our thoughts but the very basis of these series is BL at its base.

But we are talking about cheating here, no matter BL or LGBTQ. 

Cheating in all forms is unacceptable. You can not give any excuse, unless your relation is dead and their is nothing to left to salvage. 

 I can not accept Teh's behavior, no matter how much people focus on a point of their growth, change in location or their interests. But I can try to understand what went wrong. But what is wrong can not be denied when the circumstances could have been easily resolved. 

I accept Teh and Oh are polls part, but sometimes that works best and sometime it throws the other person who loves more into deep abyss. Teh has caused Oh a lot of pain throughout his life. He was happy but this short happiness couldn't last as deep down Oh knew having Teh will always make him anxious and worry. 

My conclusion is, I am very much satisfied how it is shown, happy or sad ending, I am up for it, as long as both have what they need to move on in life, together or separate. My possible hinch on ending:

As they are separated now, Teh will become famous, and Oh might move back to Phuket. He will always remember Teh, and after becoming a star, Teh will come back to Phuket to collect what he had lost, and under the moon on the beach (possibly) they will reconcile and when they are looking at each other with peace, the camera will roll down to moon ending the scene and series. 

Other points discuss are so valid, and I couldn't agree more. I think we are was past time to start proper LGBTQ series. It is not much different from BL in production perspectives. But the things is LGBTQ content can be boring for audience, that is why it is not normalise yet in Asian countries, look how Korea is taking baby steps and all are web series. BL is a huge part of Thai entertainment industry, the shift will be huge. It can cost them fortune, that is way none of them is trying. 

IPYTM is so well executed that not just BL/LGBTQ but Larkon should learn how a production is created. I mean, I can not describe that ITSAY and IPYTM are so well made that there is not a single thing I would want to change. 

So, whatever finale is gonna bring, I am gonna accept it, and move on in a hope that both characters have found what they were looking for. 

To Nauriya: your POV on cheating is absolutely valid. In real life, no way do I tolerate cheating. But this is a TV show whose most consistent theme has been “Oh, to be young and foolish!” That’s why I’m a bit more ambiguous about it. But if I had a gf that cheated on me, there would be BIG problems lol.

I agree totally with your second point, too: the BL industry is incredibly lucrative. Sociologists have postulated that the reason it’s taken off in Asia, but not so much in the West, is because Asian women tend to be discouraged from expressing their sexuality and desires; women should (in most traditional Asian culture, though this is starting to change) be dutiful and obedient and not embrace their sexuality, whatever that might be. This results in women expressing it in somewhat weird ways, one of which is BL. I think this is what made ITSAY and IPYTM so much better and fundamentally different from the Thai BL industry: a lot of those dramas are based on novels written by young heterosexual women who are somewhat immature, so for those of us in the queer community, they’re difficult to take seriously. ITSAY and IPYTM made the very conscious decision to include queer actors, producers, directors, and writers in the production, which made a HUGE difference and really improved the quality and believability of the storytelling. Of course, one (good) consequence of that is the drama is more realistic and not formulaic and fantastical, and thus the absolutely explosive fan reaction to a quite realistic situation. But, unfortunately, I think until Asian women have a more equal place in society and feel more liberated to express themselves, you are right - the BL industry, and all its toxicity, will likely persist for a while, at least. Money talks, after all, and boy is there a lot of money in it, especially from China. It’s good to see that it’s finally being challenged though. You’ve gotta start somewhere!