I might know XL’s scenes.Snowcup:
S2: XL senses XY’s heartache and realizes that she and CX are nearby in Qingshui Town during the pre-battle skirmishes. XY accompanies CX, who wants to boost his buddy FL’s morale. FL brings them to stay at Yu Mansion, Jing’s former residence. This scene is another example of how the lovers bugs can function like an apple airtag, providing specific location information. The Gu is a tracking device.
S2: With mixed emotions, XL watches XY leave in a carriage after their month-long stay together in Qingshui Town and after he purposely pushes her towards Jing. While TJC is good at emoting, the extended pause here felt a bit forced. Plus, S2 appears to have glammed up XL in some scenes. Consistency is key and less is more.
S1: XL/FFB continues XY’s archery lessons shortly after she and CX move to the Central Plains. It’s the first time XY and XL see each other after she learns he’s FFB. He transforms a picked daisy into a bird as a target for XY’s arrow. From this point, XL/FFB reveals his sharper edges along with his apparent discontent with XY’s lingering attention to Jing.
That was fun. They should consider making a LYF trivia game as part of the official merchandise.
Thanks for identifying the scenes! You really know your XL trivia :)
It's interesting that the scenes are in reverse chronological order. Also, from an emotional perspective, it starts with scenes where XL is intentionally trying to distance himself from XY and goes back to when he and XY were on good terms.
The first scene is before XL devastates XY by making it look like he exploited the lovers bug connection to try to assassinate CX and then kills the lovers bugs.
The second scene is after XL stopped the YaoLong wedding and killed off FFB.
The first scene is before XL actively took steps to distance himself from XY. Furthermore, this site says that daisies represent love hidden deep in the heart, while this site says that daisies represent new beginnings. Both these meanings are relevant to YaoLiu's relationship. It's interesting that the scene shows the daisy returning to XL's hand. Perhaps all the scenes together mean reversing the damage and returning to a new beginning for YaoLiu.
Jing's video is also interesting. Blue is the color of A Heng and Jing and represent long-term companionship. The video starts with a shot of Deng Wei holding a blue rose, but then he turns it over showing that it's half dead--maybe a hint at his health issues/shortened lifespan?
I could only identify the last scene in the video. It is from S2, EP8 - Lirong Chang trash-talks Xiao Yao after Jing dives into the water to pick a begonia (海棠) flower for her. Jing remains unfazed, focusing instead on cultivating a transplanted begonia plant. He plans to disregards his own health and use his spiritual power to nourish the flowers, but Lirong Chang intervenes and uses his own spiritual power to care for them instead.
Is Jing disregarding his health another hint at Jing's shortened lifespan? Also, according to this site:
Begonia symbolizes bitter love. When people encounter twists and turns in love, they often use begonia flowers to describe themselves. The ancients called it the heartbreaking flower, using flowers to express the sad emotions of separation between men and women. The flower language then has "bitter love".
So things aren't looking too bright for Jing.
I could only identify the last scene in the video. It is from S2, EP8 - Lirong Chang trash-talks Xiao Yao after Jing dives into the water to pick a begonia (海棠) flower for her. Jing remains unfazed, focusing instead on cultivating a transplanted begonia plant. He plans to disregards his own health and use his spiritual power to nourish the flowers, but Lirong Chang intervenes and uses his own spiritual power to care for them instead.solarlunareclipse:
I’m not sure about the begonia flowers in this scene, as the Viki drama captions are listing. For instance, Koala in Chapter 34 has the flower as a water lily in her translation, and the google translation for this scene indicates crabapple blossoms. Here’s what chatGpt said:
The flower referred to as 垂丝海棠 (chuí sī hǎitáng) can be translated in a couple of ways depending on the context and specific botanical interpretation:
Crabapple Blossoms: This is a common translation, as 海棠 (hǎitáng) often refers to crabapple flowers, particularly those with a drooping form (垂丝 meaning "hanging threads" or "drooping").
Begonia: In some contexts, 海棠 can also refer to the begonia plant. However, when combined with 垂丝("drooping threads"), it more likely refers to a type of crabapple blossom.
Given the description of the flowers with their "delicate vines" and "drooping blossoms," the translation as "crabapple blossoms" is more accurate.
So, in this case, 垂丝海棠 is best understood as "crabapple blossoms."
[One caveat with chatGpt is that it can be useful for short queries but so-so for accurate translations, especially long passages when it can veer wildly off. The shorter the passage, the better with AI translations, at least in its current state. Google translations has its flaws, but the translations are literal, while chatGpt tends to favor a smoother writing style over translating individual words.]
It looks like the other two scenes relate to the begonia flower and Jing's health too.primaspe:
The first one is from S2 EP 8 when Xiao Yao asked Jing to hand-pick a begonia flower.
The second one is from S2 EP 10 when Tushan Jing visits Xiao Yao's clinic. She checks his health, and Jing says that after the elders announce that Fangfeng Yiying passed away, he will have to mourn for a year, and then they will be able to get married.
Welcome, primaspe! Thanks for the input. These scenes are rather tricky in that the characters often wear the same clothing in multiple scenes throughout the drama.
Not exactly as I remember, but I found the interview!
相思二字里总是有些不圆满，或者想见不能见，或者相爱却无法相守。这个故事里的人物在人生的某个阶段都有这种思而不得，涂山璟、相柳、小夭、馨悦、阿念，都各有各的相思苦，但最终这一曲长相思是唱给了男主玱玹。
The word "longing" always carries a sense of incompleteness—either a desire to meet but being unable to, or loving but not being able to stay together. The characters in this story all experience this kind of longing at some point in their lives. Tushan Jing, Xiang Liu, Xiao Yao, Xin Yue, and A Nian each endure their own bitter longing, but in the end, this song of eternal longing is sung for the male lead, Cang Xuan.
[link to entire interview]
I thought this interview was pretty interesting. Thanks for providing it! In case it might be of interest to others, here’s the google chrome translation:
Tong Hua: Write the stories you want to write and don't lose yourself to cater to the market
July 22, 2019
Liaoshen Evening News: The classic is reprinted after many years. It is said that the new book has re-examined the entire story structure and logic. What are the considerations behind this improvement and revision?
Tong Hua: So far, I have written five ancient stories, and "Longing" is the last one. When I read it at that time, I felt that it was the one with the most mature writing skills, but looking back, there are still many shortcomings. This time I did not make up for all the regrets, but I made revisions to the places that could be made up.
LEN: Re-editing "Longing for Love", what is your different understanding of the characters and the theme of "longing for love" that has been passed down since ancient times? How do you define the word "longing for love" in your mind?
TH: There is always something incomplete in the word "longing", either wanting to see but not being able to, or loving but not being able to stay together. The characters in this story all have this kind of yearning but not being able to get it at some stage in their lives. Tu Shanjing, Xiangliu, Xiaoyao, Xinyue, and Anian all have their own lovesickness, but in the end, this song of longing is sung to the male protagonist, Xuanxuan.
LEN: Missing you is often a taste that only you can taste and an emotion that only you can understand. So in your opinion, in those moments when you can't say it directly, which sentence actually implies "I miss you"?
TH: A lot. For example, let's have dinner together this weekend? Today's movie was great, but it's a pity that you were on a business trip. Bayberries are on the market, and I ordered some to be delivered to you. The temperature has dropped here, how about yours?
LEN: The character relationships and plot background of the "Shan Jing Hai Ji" series is a very large structure, which can be said to have established a complete world view. During the writing process, how did you grasp and sort out the context?
TH: "Longing" and "Once Promised" are a series of mythological stories based on the legends in "Classic of Mountains and Seas". I imagined a lot before I started writing, and I improved it while writing, but my ability is limited and there are still shortcomings.
LEN: Many readers said after reading the book that "the longing for you is heartbreaking". In your mind, is this a work with tragedy at its core? As the story unfolds, are the fates of the characters consistent with your initial ideas?
TH: Although this story still has some poor writing, overall, it is still quite complete. I have basically expressed what I wanted to express.
I don't think it's a tragedy, because everyone got what they wanted and achieved what they wanted most. For example, the male protagonist Xuanxuan, he wanted to be safe and protect himself and his family, and he did it. Xiangliu was loyal and died on the battlefield. Tushan Jing wanted to be with Xiaoyao, and Xiaoyao wanted someone to accompany her and never leave her... As for those who can't get it, life is not perfect. It's not easy to get what you want most.
LEN: From the perspective of a film and television planner, do you think "Longing" is an IP project suitable for film and television adaptation? If it is adapted into a film and television adaptation, what is the core of the story of "Longing" that you most hope to retain?
TH: "Longing" can be adapted into a film or TV work, but it is quite difficult to adapt because the structure of this story is a bit special. From the perspective of the story structure, the male lead is Xuan, who is the dramatic core of the story, but as a romantic story, the lover of the female lead Xiaoyao is Tu Shanjing. Going back to the structure, the female lead does not fall in love with the male lead, which makes it difficult to adapt the script. If I adapt it, I hope to keep the emotions in it. "Longing", as the name suggests, is based on emotions.
LEN: Having published so many works that are widely known and loved by readers, how do you avoid falling into a certain routine or pattern?
TH: I feel that my stories will definitely be limited by my own thoughts and ideas, and will bear my own traces. It is impossible to be completely detached. I don’t deliberately avoid routines, but I will “love the new and dislike the old”. Every story inspires me to write because there is something fresh in it.
LEN: You have written so many love stories, some tender and lingering, some heart-wrenching. What is your own view on love?
TH: My point of view is that love can make life very beautiful, but love is not the only thing in life. Women should first live their own lives well. Only a woman with independent financial ability and spiritual independence can embrace love calmly.
LEN: As domineering as Xuanxuan, as gentle as Tushan Jing, as forbearing as Xiangliu, Xiaoyao made her own choice in the story. In reality, how do you view these three different types of men and their love patterns?
TH: In reality, it is not just men who have to choose between family and career, women also have to choose between them. There is no correct answer at this time, only the choice of who is more suitable for whom.
LEN: It is said that the male lead belongs to the heroine, and the second male lead belongs to everyone. Will you beautify the characters or change the original ideas and adjust the direction of the plot based on readers' preferences and comments?
TH: No. The characters in a story have their own thoughts and preferences. They will make their own choices, sometimes regardless of the author's will.
LEN: Although your works are considered as romance novels by many readers, the heroines in your works are never "love-brained", but are independent and strong. It is said that the characters will have the shadow of the writer himself. Do you think this is related to and consistent with your own values?
TH: I think so! Although I write romance stories, my understanding of love is to be yourself first and then talk about feelings. One of the cornerstones of love is equality, and equality is built on women's self-reliance.
LEN: Many readers regard works such as "Startling by Each Step" and "Longing for You" as classics. In your opinion, what is the reason why these works can still be remembered by readers and continue to impress more people today when online literature is emerging in an endless stream?
TH: When I was writing, I put in my sincere emotions and loved every character. I felt sad for them and happy for them. Readers will feel the sincerity in the story and be moved by their emotions.
LEN: You switched from financial analysis to professional writer, and now you work in a film and television company. You seem to like cross-border and challenge very much? How will this attitude towards life affect your works?
TH: It's just a matter of fate, I just let it happen naturally. I'm a hard-working person, but I'm not a pushy person. I just do my best at the moment, and then develop step by step. It seems to be like this naturally, without deliberately crossing boundaries.
LEN: Have you ever shed tears like your readers because of the stories and characters you wrote?
TH: When writing a story, you need to go deep into it. You will definitely feel the same sorrow and joy as the characters, and tears are inevitable. I feel sad for every character who fails to get what they want.
LEN: You accidentally entered the field of writing in 2005. So, what position does writing occupy in your life?
TH: The most precious thing in the world is love. As long as we like something, we will give it without regrets. This is true for a person or a thing. So, I just write for love. When I write, I don’t think about success, the future, or even how many people will like the stories I write. I just want to write. I have gained great happiness from telling stories. As for other things, they are things that come after happiness. If there is, I am very happy; if there is not, it doesn’t matter.
LEN: In the process of writing novels, have you ever been troubled by the public's click rate and comments, and struggled between catering to the public and persisting?
TH: My view has always been to write the stories you want to write, rather than the stories that readers want to read. Writing the stories you want to write is for yourself, it is a need from the heart, and it is because you have a strong desire to express yourself. Writing what readers want to read is for others, not because you have a strong desire to express yourself. Moreover, there are thousands of readers in the world, and each reader likes different things. Who should I write for? Writing is a lonely and happy thing. Don't lose yourself in order to cater to the market.
Li Shuang, reporter of Liaoshen Evening News and Liaoshen Client
I could only identify the last scene in the video. It is from S2, EP8 - Lirong Chang trash-talks Xiao Yao after Jing dives into the water to pick a begonia (海棠) flower for her.
The flower referred to as 垂丝海棠 (chuí sī hǎitáng) can be translated in a couple of ways depending on the context and specific botanical interpretation:
Crabapple Blossoms: This is a common translation, as 海棠 (hǎitáng) often refers to crabapple flowers, particularly those with a drooping form (垂丝 meaning "hanging threads" or "drooping").
Begonia: In some contexts, 海棠 can also refer to the begonia plant. However, when combined with 垂丝("drooping threads"), it more likely refers to a type of crabapple blossom.
Given the description of the flowers with their "delicate vines" and "drooping blossoms," the translation as "crabapple blossoms" is more accurate.
海棠花 is not begonia, but crabapple blossom. It is mistranslated as begonia or water lily in various translations. The simplest way to identify is based on the scientific name "malus spectabilis", which is Chinese crabapple or Chinese flowering apple.
It looks like the other two scenes relate to the begonia flower and Jing's health too.
The first one is from S2 EP 8 when Xiao Yao asked Jing to hand-pick a begonia flower.
The second one is from S2 EP 10 when Tushan Jing visits Xiao Yao's clinic. She checks his health, and Jing says that after the elders announce that Fangfeng Yiying passed away, he will have to mourn for a year, and then they will be able to get married.
Welcome to the forum! Thank you for finding the scenes--great detective work! You're right, it's interesting how all the scenes relate to Jing disregarding his dignity and/or health.
Scene 1 - S2 EP8 - Jing jumped into the water to retrieve the crabapple blossom branch for Xiao Yao. Lirong Chang was mentioning how jumping into the lake is embarrassing and how dignity matters to men right as Jing jumped into the lake, disregarding his dignity.
Scene 2 - S2 EP10 - Xiao Yao admonishes Jing for running around doing business before his health is completely recovered. She tells him to look after his health.
Scene 3 - S2 EP8 - Lirong Chang trash-talks Xiao Yao after Jing dives into the water to pick crabapple flowers for her and admonishes Jing for disregarding his dignity to pick the flowers for her. Jing remains unfazed, focusing instead on cultivating a transplanted crabapple plant. He plans to disregards his own health and use his spiritual power to nourish the flowers, but Lirong Chang intervenes and uses his own spiritual power to care for them instead. So this scene touches on Jing disregarding both his dignity and his health.
Hahaha, the drama production team chose some very pertinent scenes for Jing :)
The first scene in Xiao Yao's video is actually the same as the first in Jing's video - S2 EP 8 when Xiao Yao asked Jing to hand-pick a begonia flower.
The second scene in Xiao Yao's video is from S2 EP 15/16 - the day before Cang Xuan and Nian's wedding. Xiao Yao says that this wedding should be different for Cang Xuan since Nian differs from other women he married and he watched her grow up. Cang Xuan disagrees as it doesn't mean he wants to marry Nian.
The third scene in Xiao Yao's video looks like from S2 EP1 when Cang Xuan lets the grandfather, Nian, and Xiao Yao know that he is planning to take someone from Shangyang Clan as his new consort. This is also the same scene in which Xiao Yao asks her grandfather if he would agree if she said that she wants to hang out with Xiang Liu. But given that Xiao Yao holds a fan in her video, I think its the scene with Cang Xuan rather than the one where she mentions Xiang Liu. And this is actually interesting as it suggests that Xiao Yao is longing for Cang Xuan but not for Xiang Liu?..
Whoa, more impressive detective work! Identifying Xiao Yao’s scenes is particularly impressive given that she has the most screen time. Plus, these might not even be actual stills from the drama—they could just be photographs of her in the same outfits and settings as in the show.
It looks like Yang Zi sticks a phoenix flower (凤凰花) in her hair in the beginning. According to this article:
The flower language is: separation, longing, and fiery youth.
I believe you're right when you suggested that these scenes are related to Cang Xuan and not Xiang Liu. I believe all the scenes are of Cang Xuan letting Xiao Yao know how important she is to him.
Scene 1 - S2 EP8 - Cang Xuan saves Xiao Yao from Xin Yue's relentless bullying and chastises Xiao Yao for letting Xin Yue bully her. Cang Xuan chooses to support Xiao Yao above his responsibility to keep Xin Yue happy to ensure the stability of his kingdom.
Scene 2 - S2 EP15/16 - Cang Xuan tells Xiao Yao he doesn't want to marry A Nian and gets dangerously close to kissing Xiao Yao. Cang Xuan is upset about having to marry A Nian in order to ensure the stability of Dahuang, but ends up deciding to go through with the wedding.
Scene 3 - S2 EP1 - Cang Xuan lets Xiao Yao know that he doesn't want to take a consort, but he wants to avoid warfare. Cang Xuan clear-headedly chooses the peace and stability of his kingdom over acting on his feelings for Xiao Yao.
In the end, Cang Xuan chooses to fulfill his responsibilities to his kingdom rather than to be with Xiao Yao. Thus, he and Xiao Yao must go their separate ways, and can only look back on their past experiences and long for each other.
This is perhaps a subtle hint that Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu will meet again, so they won't long for each other forever. As Tong Hua said in her 2019 interview with Liaoshen Evening News:
相思二字里总是有些不圆满，或者想见不能见，或者相爱却无法相守。这个故事里的人物在人生的某个阶段都有这种思而不得，涂山璟、相柳、小夭、馨悦、阿念，都各有各的相思苦，但最终这一曲长相思是唱给了男主玱玹。
The word "longing" always carries a sense of incompleteness—either a desire to meet but being unable to, or loving but not being able to stay together. The characters in this story all experience this kind of longing at some point in their lives. Tushan Jing, Xiang Liu, Xiao Yao, Xin Yue, and A Nian each endure their own bitter longing, but in the end, this song of eternal longing is sung for the male lead, Cang Xuan.
I also tried to see if any of the scenes were tied to Xiang Liu, but came up empty for Scene 1. For Scene 2, as you mentioned, she asks her grandfather if he would agree if she said she wanted to hang out with Xiang Liu, and laments how her bloodline is tying her down from doing what she wants. For Scene 3 (Season 2, Episode 16 at 15:39), there is a shot of white lotuses, symbolizing Xiang Liu. Xiao Yao continues to ask why all the fish have run away and Cang Xuan says that the fish at Five Gods Mountain don't like him being here. Xiao Yao reassures him that the small fish aren't important and it won't be a problem for him to conquer Five Gods Mountain. This conversation has symbolic meaning because fish are used to symbolize YaoLiu. Some examples of where fish appear in relation to YaoLiu:
- They cook grilled fish for each other.
- The colorful fish that they saw during their ocean excursion that represent the cycle of remembering and forgetting.
- Xiao Yao made a "Koi Fish Frolicking in Lotus Pond" poison dish for FFB.
- In the novel, Xiang Liu commands the colorful fish to surround them when he saves Xiao Yao at Jade Mountain.
- In the drama, we first see koi fish lanterns representing YaoLiu multiple times:
- S1, EP17 - Xiao Liu takes a boat ride with the female Xiang Liu. At 41:16, the koi fish lanterns are prominently featured.
- S2, EP1 - When Xiao Yao and FFB talk after leaving the casino. At 41:12, when XL asks XY where her future husband is, the scene cuts to another camera of them, with the koi fish lanterns representing YaoLiu in the foreground.
- S2, EP10 - At 24:10, before Xiao Yao goes to the grilled meat restaurant with CX and Jing and overhears people talking about her parents' relationship.
- S2, EP13 - Xiao Yao bragged to Xiang Liu about being able to recognize him in a single glance, even when he changed his appearance, and then made up a lie about wanting him to remove the lovers bugs after Xiang Liu asked when she wanted to do after recognizing him. We see her walking with Jing after this conversation with Xiang Liu at 4:09 and the peach red koi fish lantern (representing Xiao Yao) is in view on the far right of the frame.
So, in this case, 垂丝海棠 is best understood as "crabapple blossoms."
海棠花 is not begonia, but crabapple blossom. It is mistranslated as begonia or water lily in various translations. The simplest way to identify is based on the scientific name "malus spectabilis", which is Chinese crabapple or Chinese flowering apple.liddi:
Thanks for the correction! I just used "begonia" because that's what Chrome's auto-translate came up with. Agree that this is the wrong translation.
I did look up information on the flower using the Chinese name "海棠花", so the information on the flower language is still relevant. Here's the corrected translation:
Crabapple blossoms symbolize bitter love. When people encounter twists and turns in love, they often use crabapple blossoms to describe themselves. The ancients called it the heartbreak flower, using it to express the sad emotions of separation between men and women. Thus, its flower language carries the meaning of "bitter love."
One caveat with chatGpt is that it can be useful for short queries but so-so for accurate translations, especially long passages when it can veer wildly off. The shorter the passage, the better with AI translations, at least in its current state. Google translations has its flaws, but the translations are literal, while chatGpt tends to favor a smoother writing style over translating individual words.
Agree that there are often errors with machine translation (rule-based or AI). When I want to translate something accurately, I will often use a combination of ChatGPT, Google Translate, https://www.trainchinese.com/, https://hanzii.net/?hl=en, and Baidu. I find that one of the main flaws with Google Translate is that it often doesn't recognize Chinese idioms (成语), which are liberally used throughout Tong Hua's work.
I thought this interview was pretty interesting. Thanks for providing it! In case it might be of interest to others, here’s the google translation:
Thanks for posting the translation to the entire interview. It is pretty interesting :)
Tonghua: My point of view has always been to write the story I want to write, rather than the story the readers want to read. Writing the story you want to write is for yourself. It comes from your inner needs and your strong desire to express yourself. But writing what readers want to see is for others, not because I have a strong desire to express myself. What's more, there are tens of millions of readers in the world, and each reader likes different things. Which one should I write for? Writing is a lonely and happy thing. Don't lose yourself trying to cater to the market.
Good for her! Glad she has the right mindset to just ignore all the haters, most of whom don't even understand her work or the ideas she's trying to convey.
This is perhaps a subtle hint that Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu will meet again, so they won't long for each other forever.
Hmm. That would be a nice touch since I'm already convinced they reunite in the afterlife.
But just for the sake of identifying potential counterarguments, how can one justify the last volume of LYF, which is dedicated to XL, being titled "Yearning without Bound?"
Agree that there are often errors with machine translation (rule-based or AI). When I want to translate something accurately, I will often use a combination of ChatGPT, Google Translate, https://www.trainchinese.com/, https://hanzii.net/?hl=en, and Baidu. I find that one of the main flaws with Google Translate is that it often doesn't recognize Chinese idioms (成语), which are liberally used throughout Tong Hua's work.
Nice to know about these other sites as resources. It sounds like you may have read the original Chinese version of the novel. If so, I’m curious how Chinese readers would classify TH’s writing style. Is the style casual or formal? Any particular idiosyncrasies in the writing that may be out of the ordinary? You mentioned TH uses Chinese idioms (成语) frequently in her works. Could you share a few examples of the idioms she uses? I’m curious to see how these may show in the translation. Thanks!
Crabapple blossoms symbolize bitter love. When people encounter twists and turns in love, they often use crabapple blossoms to describe themselves. The ancients called it the heartbreak flower, using it to express the sad emotions of separation between men and women. Thus, its flower language carries the meaning of "bitter love."
It is interesting that it is also referred to as 断肠花 Heartbreak Flower, a similar term used to describe the 断肠蛊 Heartbreak Bug if the Lovers bugs ever retaliated.
When the Southern Song Dynasty poet Lu You and his lover Tang Wan parted ways, Tang Wan gave him a pot of Four Seasons crabapple as a memento. When Lu You asked Tang Wan the name of the flower, she called it "Heartbreak Red 断肠红". Upon hearing this, Lu You was overwhelmed by emotions and said that the pot of flower should be named "Yearning Red 相思红". From then on, the Four Seasons Crabapple has been known as "Yearning Red," symbolising bitter love. When people face difficulties in their relationships, they use the Four Seasons Crabapple to express the sadness of parting.
cr. source
Because the flower grows even in harsh winter conditions, 海棠花 is also used to symbolise resilience. It also symbolises beauty, gentleness, homesickness and bitter love that comes from the pain of separation.
But just for the sake of identifying potential counterarguments, how can one justify the last volume of LYF, which is dedicated to XL, being titled "Yearning without Bound?"Rain_83223:
Did TH specifically say that the last volume is dedicated to XL? She did say that the title of the book, 长相思 (Eternal Yearning) applied to CX. I think the same logic could apply to the title of the third volume, 思无涯 (Boundless Yearning), regardless of if it is dedicated to XL or not.
It sounds like you may have read the original Chinese version of the novel.
My Chinese literacy is pretty low, so I haven't read it in Chinese. I just read the passages that I translate to English.
I’m curious how Chinese readers would classify TH’s writing style. Is the style casual or formal? Any particular idiosyncrasies in the writing that may be out of the ordinary?
@liddi could probably better answer this question. To me, TH's writing doesn't seem overly formal, and the dialogues between the characters mostly sound casual. I'm not sure what you would classify as an idiosyncrasy, but here are a few things I notice about her writing:
(1) She uses quite a bit of intertextuality in her work. For example, almost all her chapter titles are derived from classical works of Chinese poetry. Understanding the entirety of the poem, rather than just the snippet used for the title often unlocks a hidden interpretation of the chapter. See https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/121175-poems-that-was-used-for-chapter-titles-in-the-novel for examples. Also, a lot of character and place names are inspired by the Classic of Mountains and Seas (山海经).
(2) She doesn't waste words. What might seems like a long, rambling passage expressing one idea, may actually express several disparate ideas. Here are some examples:
- The Air Kiss Refusal: https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=3048521&page=592#p3048521
- H19279's post on the ambiguity of XY's words: https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=2922553&page=442#p2922553
(3) She doesn't waste details. For example, even her descriptions of colors have deeper meaning.
At Xin Yue and FL’s birthday party, in Vol 2 Ch 1 (Chapter 18), FFB performed a magic trick of turning XY’s dress different colors using flower petals. XY’s original dress was gardenia yellow (栀黄). FFB then proceed to turn the dress the following colors:
- White (白色) using a white hosta flower (白色的玉簪花)
- Violet (紫罗兰色) using two purple-blue violet flowers (紫蓝色的紫罗兰花)
- Green (绿色) using a green green-calyx plum flower (绿色的绿萼花)
- Red (红色) using a red hollyhock flower (红色的蜀葵花)
Notice that the order of the colors is the exact opposite of the order used to describe the ice crystal wind chimes at Jing’s Qing Shui Town residence in Vol 1 Ch 6 (Chapter 6) and Vol 3 Ch 13 (Chapter 46).
- Scarlet red (赤红色) - The first character is the same as XY’s father’s name Chi Chen (赤宸)
- Bamboo green (竹青色)
- Purple indigo (紫靛蓝色)
- Moonlight white lotus (月下荷白色)
Because the description of the wind chimes comes right after Xiang Liu’s first assassination attempt on Cang Xuan (Chapter 6) and right before Xiang Liu assassinated Feng Long (Chapter 46), I think the colors have to do with the order of near deaths and deaths in the novel. The first to almost die is FFB, who is represented by the scarlet red color. How do we tie FFB to red? FFB used a red hollyhock flower to turn XY’s dress red. The flower language of hollyhock is “dream.” Dream is also the name of the fragrance that XY concocted while visiting the flower demon shop with FFB.
The next to almost die is Jing, who is represented by the bamboo green color. There are many passages in the book comparing Jing to bamboo. Here is an example of A Nian describing Jing when she infiltrated a military camp in an attempt to assassinate Yu Jiang and Feng Long.
阿念歪头打量着璟，眼前的男子眉眼清雅，身材修长，若空谷清泉、山涧修竹，见之令人心静，“我见过你，你是青丘公子——涂山族长。”
A Nian tilted her head, looking at Jing. The man before her had elegant features and a slender figure, like a clear spring in a secluded valley or tall bamboo in a mountain stream, bringing a sense of calm to those who saw him. "I've seen you before. You are the young master of Qing Qiu—the leader of the Tu Shan clan."
— Vol 3 Ch 6 (Chapter 39)
The purple indigo is Feng Long. Feng Long's association to purple is through is sister Xin Yue. Xin Yue wore purple when she met Xiao Yao. The albatross demon that Xin Yue sent to assassinate Xiao Yao also wore purple.
The moonlight white lotus is Xiang Liu because he is compared to white lotus several times in the novel. For example, when Xiang Liu appears at Ma Zi and Chun Tao’s wedding, he is described as being “as clean as a white lotus blossom.”
相柳一袭白衣，站在回春堂门口，长身玉立，纤尘不染，就好像一朵白莲花，还是被雨水洗刷了三天三夜的，干净得让所有人都想回家去洗澡。
Xiang Liu was dressed in white and stood at the door of the Hui Chun Hall. He was tall and graceful, as clean as a white lotus blossom that had been washed by the rain for three days and three nights, so clean as to make everyone want to go home and take a bath.
— Vol 1 Ch 2 (Chapter 2)
Thus the order of near deaths/deaths is hinted at by the order of the wind chime colors: FFB, Jing, FL, XL. Now let’s revisit the colors the FFB turned XY’s dresses, which is the exact reverse order of the wind chime colors. The people that correspond to the dress colors are: Xiang Liu, Feng Long, Jing, FFB. Since FFB changed the dress colors at FL and Xin Yue's birthday party, it stands to reason that the order of the colors/people should be related to some sort of festive event. The first three colors correspond to XY’s first three weddings: she “wed” Xiang Liu when they planted the lovers' bugs, then came Feng Long, then Jing. Finally, its predicted that XY will wed FFB, which we don't see in the novel. This could foreshadow XL getting resurrected as Bei and eventually marrying XY, giving more credence to the rumored second epilogue, where XL is allegedly resurrected as Guifang Bei.
You mentioned TH uses Chinese idioms (成语) frequently in her works. Could you share a few examples of the idioms she uses? I’m curious to see how these may show in the translation.
Ignore this. I misspoke. Looking back on previous translations, I don't actually see much use of idioms. What I meant to say is that Google Translate isn't the best at fluidly conveying ideas in an understandable way, so I need to use other sources to supplement my understanding of the translation.
It is interesting that it is also referred to as 断肠花 Heartbreak Flower, a similar term used to describe the 断肠蛊 Heartbreak Bug if the Lovers bugs ever retaliated.
Because the flower grows even in harsh winter conditions, 海棠花 is also used to symbolise resilience. It also symbolises beauty, gentleness, homesickness and bitter love that comes from the pain of separation.
Interesting, thanks for the additional information. Beauty and gentleness could certainly be associated with Jing. Also Jing couldn't bear to be separated from Xiao Yao. How much XY loves and could bear to be separated from Jing is up for debate. Alternately, I've read that the crabapple blossom should be associated with Xiang Liu instead of Jing. The 海 in the name of the flower is naturally associated with XL. Also, YaoLiu are in love but can't be together.
Coincidentally, 海棠 is also the name of A Nian's servant. I'm curious if there's a deeper meaning there. One similarity is that Xiao Liu tried to poison XL with wine, but poisoned Jing instead. Xiao Liu also tried to poison A Nian, but poisoned Hai Tang instead. You already know I believe A Nian to be XL's shadow character. I'm curious if Hai Tang could be Jing's shadow character, and if so, what that could reveal about Jing. I think its also possible that Hai Tang could be a shadow character for XL. She could even be a shadow character for both Jing and XL.
During TJC's Beijing concert on 31 Aug 2024, the stage effects for the song 云与海 The Clouds and the Sea evoke such a sense of poignancy, with its nod to Mao Qiu and the ice crystal globe from the drama - the mermaid's hand reaching out to the merman's, and Mao Qiu's protective stance with its wings wrapped around a structure which appears to represent their home.
The lyrics of the song 云与海 The Clouds and the Sea are extremely poignant as well, and very reminiscent of YaoLiu:
| 云与海 | The Clouds and the Sea |
| 天边的云一望无际 俯瞰那双眺望的眼睛 时间还在远行 留下谁的脚印 不只是贪恋的勇气 | The clouds on the horizon appear endless, Looking down at those eyes that gaze out into the distance. Time is still traveling far away, Whose footprints are left behind? It's not just the courage of passionate longing. |
| 命中注定不能靠近 爱你的事当做秘密 怕惊扰你从此远离 无穷尽 | Fated to never be able to get close, I keep my love for you a secret, Afraid of disturbing you, I stay away from now on Endlessly. |
| 多想能够潜入海底 温柔的栖息 是抚平 你心口的原因 | How I wish I could submerge into the sea, The gentle rest Is the reason to soothe your heart. |
| 如果世间万物能跨越能相爱 也能成全云与海 忘了离岸多远多危险 都看不见 | If everything in the world could overcome and love each other, It can also fulfil [the wishes of] the clouds and the sea How far and dangerous the distance is from the shore, is forgotten, It cannot be seen. |
| 如果海角天涯不分开不难捱 眼泪总会厮守 别忘了 它们的爱而 不得 | If the ends of the earth are not separated, it is not hard to endure, Tears will eventually still remain, Don’t forget Their love which cannot be realised. |
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