@ H19279blabla100:
"XY did not know that
Her own love/affection for him. How deep was really it?"
You think she didn't aknowledge her feelings for XL or the extend of them? I, on the contrary, think she knew very well what she feels for XL, but I belive she was uncertain / confuse about what he feels about her. I mean the crystal ball IMO is a good indication of that, for one it is a good insight on her feelings and thoughts (hand on heart, hand towards him, him looking the other way), but also by sending it to him it shows that she is willing to admit it out loud and also commit to him.
One thing I agree with you that she was confused of his feeling for her. I also think she underestimated her feeling for him. This is equal to she didn't know how deeply she feel for him (shown in Chapter 50)
She had never acknowdged her feeling for him explicitely (to viewer via her thought for example). It is difficult to express exactly XY's expression way of her feeling for XL.
The ice crystal ball is the strongest proof of her feeling for him. However, in my opinion, because of her personality, she concerned very much on the result (gain or loss), thus the ice crystal ball is half confession, half committment. On one hand we (and maybe XL) can understand the scene inside the ice ball as it implies she had him in her heart and she waited for him to bring her away. She could not know or estimate his reaction and she was afraid of being rejected. Thus she sent the ice ball with note that just saying that was the last gift and her wedding date was fixed in 2 month. She left room for herself in the case of being rejected. What if she had told everything, that she was willing by his side regardless his duty, that just staying by his side even in limited time is ok for her in the note?
In term of this topic (Knowing and not knowing), let's say in safe way: She did not know: how deeply she feel for XL
windiaaa041293:
(Qingyang/ Zuyu) is a character in "Zeng Promise". Zhuyu was originally made of wood, does not understand love, and loves without knowing it.
Qingyang knew that Zhuyu liked him, but he didn't tell her.
There is a paragraph in the original work of "Zeng Promise" as follows: "Maybe the eldest brother understands, but the eldest brother who understands has always allowed ZhuYu not to understand, just because the responsibilities on his shoulders have not been fulfilled. Maybe he has thought that one day, when the responsibilities on his shoulders are fulfilled, and then took Zhuyu to roam the south and north of the sky, just like when they first met. If there was no such day, he would rather ZhuYu never understand, never know how to be sad, but he didn't know that ZhuYu is ultimately sad."
Does this narrative have a sense of déjà vu for Xiang Liu?
Yes and no. There is some similarity. They wanted their love one carefree from their responsibility/decision. But the circumstance are very different.
For Qing Yang: He was actually the one who nurtured Zuyu from a wooden stick to a mature wooden demon, transforming to human form. She was always by his side. She always supported and obeyed him. Although Qing Yang had a lot of responsibility, he might one day become king or free of responsibility (for example, when all of his siblings were happy, having their own life, his mom died or lived well). There was oppotunity for them. Then he would let her know that she had heart, had real feelings, she was not a fool.
And we all know the context between XL and XY. XL already knew the ending of Shennong army in advance. If he sticked to who he was, choosing righteousity he could never be free of responsibility.
Thanks for the link!AH :
blimarch:
For the promise to marry him, I guess they remove it for censorship and propriety reasons...
That seems to be the case. Same for changing XY's mother to seemingly being a disciple of the Queen of Xiyan rather than her daughter.
I found this kind of censorship irrelevant for ancient works. In the past, people did not have knowledge gene deficiency due to close blooded marriage. It was common in the past (both Eastern and Western world) that close cousins could get married each other. How can such classic as "Dream of the Red Chamber" be regarded now? All main characters in that novel and drama are close cousin.
We're back on that Lovers Bugs topic again AH. It's safe to say that Tong Hua left enough ambiguity etc,, but what the heck let's speculate some more :-). I missed this earlier post of yours.
And yet the situation with CX introduces ambiguity. It doesn't matter what they're called or what the Voodoo King said. If there was evidence that the Lovers' Bugs could be used to establish a bug connection between two people of opposite genders who had love in their hearts for each other, where the recipient (CX) had romantic love for the cultivator (XY) and the cultivator (XY) had platonic love for the recipient (CX), then that would mean that the bugs must be able to work that way in other cases (e.g., where XL was the recipient).
The first thing I notice here is CX has a romantic love for XY, while XY has a platonic love for CX. Hmm, not sure if I agreed with the first part. I don't think CX has romantic love for XY until later on in the story. So at the point that they shared the Lovers Bugs, it was platonic love on both sides. Not to mention he was not willing, hence, the bugs were not successfully planted. More on the subject of willingness later.
XY was able to use the Lovers' Bugs to establish a connection with CX even though she only had platonic feelings for him.
Even if CX has romantic love at that stage, an initial successful connection is not the same thing as a successful implantation. You can plant a tree anywhere, but each tree needs specific nutrients so unless it's planted in the right soil with the right conditions, it will eventually die. The Lovers Bugs' nutrient is romantic love and it needs the condition of 2 people being romantically in love for them to take root. That's why the Lovers Bugs were able to be shifted to Xiang Liu because they were not living in the right conditions and were looking for fertile ground. The fact that they were immediately successfully implanted by XiaoLiu suggested that the bugs finally found the right condition.
Now back to willingness. My take on this is that even if you have love if you are not willing, the bugs cannot be planted successfully (consent, ancient China style :-)) If you recall, XiaoYao grew the Lovers Bugs with the goal of planting them on Xiang Liu*. She only planted on CX out of desperation. Therefore, XY was not really willing either. When the bugs were shifted to Xiang Liu, we fulfilled the willingness condition for both partners. We can say with reasonable confidence that XL loves XY by this point in the story (he must have been so happy when it was successfully planted since that means that the love was mutual), can we say the same thing about XY's feelings for XL? For me, it's a yes.
The other thing is that we are told by the Voodoo King (??) and by Xiang Liu and his actions about the nature of the Lovers Bugs and yet, somehow this particular set of bugs is supposed to be different from the norms. Did I miss something in my reading (it's possible)? Why are the benchmarks for these bugs so crazily high; it's reaching beyond a reasonable doubt level :-). No novel will be able to withstand that level of scrutiny.
I have another question. Do you think XY actually didn't know that they are Lovers Bugs? Or is she bullshitting like she oft want to do?
*The hint is pretty loud from Tong Hua; XY is the stubborn young woman who nurtures these Lovers Bugs with the goal of planting them on the man that she loves, Xiang Liu.
Honestly, I cannot with the Jingers' fatuity anymore.nathsketch:
Because of an interview that has been dissected countless times, you know, the one where TH says (1) that Jing is XY's lover (does anyone have doubts about that?), (2) that all characters got what they wanted, therefore the story in her perception is not a tragedy, and (3) that Cang Xuan is the main ML
Deep breath nathsketch. Repeat after me: "I can not control other people's thoughts, feelings, and behaviour. I can only control my own". Are you feeling better?
Now, I'm going to guess that some people are using these comments as some kind of proof that XY doesn't have romantic feelings for XL. Hmm! I don't see how point number 3 is relevant to that topic. Number 1 is also not good proof; that's like saying "I love apples, therefore I cannot also love bananas". As for number 2. I noticed that Tong Hua said every character got what they wanted - that is merely a fact of the ending - what is interesting is the use of not a tragedy instead of something more affirmative. Something not being a tragedy doesn't mean that it's a blessing. And just because you've gotten what you wanted that doesn't means that there were no sacrifice and regrets to getting there. And have people never heard of the adage, "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it"?
CX got the throne at the cost of losing XY
XY got the companion that she longed for, at the cost of losing her true love
Jing got to be with XY, but he has to live with the knowledge that she'll always have another man in her heart
XL probably has the happiest ending since he is not around to deal with the potential regrets :-).
Not to mention selective. They don't mention that Tong Hua also said XL was her favorite character and she tried to find a different ending for him.Kokuto:
Tong Hua probably took a look at the mess that is XY and her appendage Jing, and decided to spare her favourite child that horrible fate of having to deal with them any longer :-)
XL didn't want to admit his loveH19279:
Then she learnt that Jing didn't want to continue living because of her death. Or in other word, she was the most important one for Jing. "Xiao Yao turned to look at Jing and murmured “You really are so broken over me that you are seeking death?”Xiao Yao felt the shell around her heart shatter completely, all those threads that she tried to cut all those times finally weaved together into a web at last."
I like these observations and the one about XY trying to replicate the things that she does with XL with Jing. It's like she's trying to transfer her love over.
XY finding Jing being willing to die with her as a good thing is probably due to her "psychological deficiencies" that was mentioned earlier. It's warped and unhealthy, IMO. I don't know if Tong Hua meant for us to see this whole thing as admirable and romantic, because personally, it isn't.
And the whole thing with Jing sleeping for 37 years is a huge WTF? OK, we can chalk him giving up and just sitting there waiting to burn with her to extreme shock and grief. But why didn't he just die then? Instead, he hung around like a bad smell for 37 years!! Loves her too much to live without her, but not committed enough to die with her?? What?? How does this make him look good? He just looked ineffectual and half-assed. And this is what XY is swooning over? Girlfriend needs serious help, or some good friends to whack sense into her.
The first thing I notice here is CX has a romantic love for XY, while XY has a platonic love for CX. Hmm, not sure if I agreed with the first part. I don't think CX has romantic love for XY until later on in the story. So at the point that they shared the Lovers Bugs, it was platonic love on both sides.HeadInTheClouds:
You're right, there's room to question whether CX's feelings for XY at that point were romantic or platonic, just as there's room to question whether XY's feelings for CX at that point were romantic or platonic.
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Chapter 38:
Jing respectfully bowed to both emperors and said, “I want to marry Xiao Yao. Will Your majesties please grant me her hand in marriage?”
Zhuan Xu’s heart lurched and he stared at Xiao Yao. The last time when Feng Long asked to marry her she looked startled and unwilling but now she kept her head lowered but her face reflected her shy happiness and willingness.
Zhuan Xu felt like he was sitting alone on a desolate mountaintop and his body was left there while his soul had flown away and was flying through time and space to revisit all the vivid moments from the past——–
His childhood experiences left him maturing early. He could enjoy the pleasures of life but he never once felt his heart truly stir. When he was teased about what kind of woman he wanted, he would always remember when Xiao Yao was small and she hugged him while promising, “I will never marry someone else. I will marry you and be with you forever!”
When he came back from Jade Mountain with Xiao Yao, that night he tossed and turned unable to sleep. All he could see was Xiao Yao, when she was small and her now, Xiao Yao as a man and Xiao Yao turned back into a woman. It didn’t matter which Xiao Yao, she always made his heart happy and his heart hurt. He wasn’t a clueless green boy, he knew what changed in the way he felt about her.
But….what could he do? A man who was sleeping in quarters that was given to him, what right did he have? One slip and he could be assassinated, what right did he have?
He remembered vividly when Auntie was taking Xiao Yao to Jade Mountain and he begged her to leave Xiao Yao with him, “I will take care of Xiao Yao, I’m not worried about the hard work” but his Auntie smiled “But you don’t even have the power to take care of yourself, you have even less ability to take care of her. Simply not being worried about it isn’t enough!”
He vowed to grow up as quickly as possible so he could go to Jade Mountain and pick Xiao Yao up when he could take care of her. But a few hundred years passed and when she returned to his side, he still didn’t have the power to take care of her. So he told himself: you don’t have the right because you can’t even protect her!
Back then Xiao Yao hadn’t yet fallen for Jing and she was completely unmoved by Feng Long. But because those two men, one was Tu Shan and the other Chi Sui, both had more right and ability to pursue her than he did so he took half a step back and also a half step forward to use them by allowing them to get close to Xiao Yao.
In Xuan Yuan Castle when they were in constant danger, Jing came to see Xiao Yao but she actually ended it with him and refused to see him.
On Xuan Yuan Mountain, it was he who stopped Xiao Yao and asked her to go see Jing. He had been shamed countless times before but never felt the shame deep down, but that time he felt gutwrenching anger and shame.
Xiao Yao didn’t just see Jing, she spent a night in the room with him. That night he spent in ice cold water that could not wash away the pain in his heart and could not wash away his own shame and agony. He wanted to rush inside and kick Jing out but he couldn’t because in front of Cui Liang’s residence it was Xiao Yao who used her body to shield him from danger. So he had no right!
Then he got Jing and Feng Long’s support and made the most critical decision in his life to abandon Xuan Yuan Mountain for Sheng Nong Mountain. When he was pretending to be a drug addicted dissolute, part of him knew it wasn’t just acting. He really was in such pain and agony and using the drugs to numb his torment. Because he knew that he wasn’t just giving up on Xuan Yuan Mountain, he was giving up on his Xiao Yao!
When he got to Sheng Nong Mountain he could see Xiao Yao and Jing’s connection growing closer so he kept telling himself that he was just Xiao Yao’s older brother! As long as the two of them stayed alive and Xiao Yao was happy then nothing else mattered!
That way when Xiao Yao came back from Qing Qiu and collapsed in his arms and spit up blood, he felt a thousand knives cutting into his heart.
Xiao Yao was gravely ill because of Jing and he kept vigil over her every night. When he saw her cry in her sleep, he hated the Jing who had Xiao Yao but didn’t cherish her, but he hated himself even more.
When the Yellow Emperor was surveying the Middle Plains and everyone was in a state of anxiety, he stood at the brink of complete success and failure and everyone kept their distance from him. But at that moment Xiao Yao agreed to marry Feng Long.
Overnight the Four Great Clans all tossed their support to him. Even though Xiao Yao smiled as she said that Feng Long was the most suitable for her, he knew that if it wasn’t for him then she would not have agreed to marry Feng Long even if she was heartbroken over Jing.
Feng Long and Xiao Yao’s wedding date was set and even if he felt a stirring beast within that was roaring to come out, he kept it in check because his grandfather counseled, “Xiao Yao just wanted a simple uneventful life so if you use your power now to give her that then that is what’s best for her.”
For Xiao Yao? He tightly controlled the beast within to not let it out.
On Xiao Yao’s wedding day, he sat all night in the phoenix tree forest in Xiao Yue Peak watching the phoenix flowers falling all around him. The new swing was ready but the person who was going to swing on it had left.
He reminded himself over and over, “Feng Long was the best choice for her while he can keep watch over Xiao Yao for her entire life and ensure Feng Long never mistreated her.”
But when news arrived of Xiao Yao running away at her wedding, he felt all the darkness around him lift and he burst out laughing uncontrollably in the phoenix forest.
Even if CX has romantic love at that stage, an initial successful connection is not the same thing as a successful implantation.
Agreed.
The Lovers Bugs' nutrient is romantic love and it needs the condition of 2 people being romantically in love for them to take root. That's why the Lovers Bugs were able to be shifted to Xiang Liu because they were not living in the right conditions and were looking for fertile ground. The fact that they were immediately successfully implanted by XiaoLiu suggested that the bugs finally found the right condition.
That doesn't seem to be aligned with what the Voodoo King said or with what XL said.
They both emphasize that willing acceptance of the bug is the key to successfully planting the Lovers' Bug. The Voodoo King seems to assume that only a lover (with romantic love for the cultivator) would willingly accept taking on the bug for life. XL says that the reason he and XY were able to transfer the bug from CX to XL was that CX did not willingly accept the bug (because he didn't know that WXL was XY), whereas XL wholeheartedly accepted the bug.
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Chapter 37:
The Voodoo King coughed once and solemnly explained, “Lover’s Bug, like its name indicates, is a pair of male-female voodoo bugs. The couple who has the bug successfully planted will have their life and emotions connected. If one hurts then the other will hurt. If one is injured then the other will also be injured.”
Xiao Yao said “This I know already. What else?”
“To outsiders voodoo is considered mysterious and bad, but really it's a craft and magic that the Jiu Li tribe has passed down through generations to protect and heal us. Jiu Li has lots of deadly insects, deadly plants, deadly gasses, to live here our ancestors had to learn to understand it and control it. Voodoo is seen as a harmful power but we actually mostly use it here to save lives. The Lover’s Bug keeps two people’s lives connected, which means when one is injured as long as the other is healthy then the injured person will survive. This is a very good thing. Even if the Lover’s Bug is notoriously hard to grow, it ought to still be relatively prevalent since many people will try to grow it. So why it is so rare to see?”
Xiao Yao asked “Why?”
“All living things that have a benefit must also carry a harm. The greater the benefit then the greater the potential for harm. The Lover’s Bug is exactly that. It can lead two people to be connected in life and emotions but it is just like a pair of lovers in love with each other. It is temperamental and hard to control. If the Lover’s Bugs turn on each other then both people will die. Which is why the Lover’s Bug also has another name: the Heartbreak Bug.”
Jing stared in dismay at Xiao Yao who quickly said, “It can’t be as scary as he makes it out to be. It’s been over seventy years and I’m still just fine.”
The Voodoo King’s expression changed as he stared at Jing, “You’re not the man the other bug is planted in?”
“No.”
The Voodoo King stared in shock at Xiao Yao “Can I feel the bug in you?”
Xiao Yao nodded.
The Voodoo King didn’t move so he was likely using a bug inside of himself to sense. He furrowed his brows and murmured, “It really is a Lover’s Bug! But how is this possible? ‘Lovers who raise the bug produce the Lover’s Bug, Not Lovers who raise the bug produce the Heartbreak Bug.’ The Lover’s Bug is different than other voodoo bugs and absolutely requires the couple to willingly accept the bug for it to be successfully planted. If the man you successfully planted the other bug in is not your lover, then how did you plant it in him?”
Xiao Yao said, “You might not know as much as your ancestors, the bug could be more multi-facted and evolving in ways beyond your understanding.”
The Voodoo King was still perplexed. But it was clear that the young man sitting beside Xiao Yao was clearly her beloved so the rest of what he wanted to say wasn’t suitable for discussing at this time. He smoothed things over, “Miss you are likely right, the bug inside of you is different than other bugs. Likely Miss and the other man have very unique bodily compositions.”
Xiao Yao inwardly sighed in relief. “He is very unique!” Since the bug was planted, only Xiang Liu could sense her but she could never sense him.
Jing anxiously asked, “How to break the spell?”
The Voodoo King’s face scrunched up. “The Lover’s Bug – either live in love or die in heartbreak. Once the Lover’s Bug has been planted there is no way to break the spell. It is impossible. This is what I was trying to say earlier for why so few people raise it despite the great benefit. Only very determined girls would raise the bug, but even if they successfully raise it, it’s near impossible to find a man willing to accept the other bug to be planted in him.”
Jing was stunned and after a moment of silence he slowly asked “What happens if one person who has the Lover’s Bug dies? What happens to the other person?”
The Voodoo King sighed “Our Jiu Li folk ballad sings ‘The twisted roots of the parasol tree entwine on land, the doves do not fly alone in the sky, the pair of mandarin ducks in the water always die together.'”
Jing stared at Xiao Yao and tightly grabbed her hand.
Xiao Yao smiled at him and made a joke face. “Don’t worry! We don’t need to believe everything the Voodoo King says. Don’t forget, he said that only in a pair of lovers in love could the bug be successfully planted. I don’t have any relationship with Xiang Liu, but we still successfully planted the bug. The Voodoo King also said the spell couldn’t be broken once the bug was planted but don’t forget that I planted the bug first in Zhuan Xu before Xiang Liu helped me break the spell and move the bug to himself.”
Jing let out a sigh of relief. “Yes! The bug was moved from Zhuan Xu!”
-----
Chapter 48:
Xiang Liu sat down next to the raft and stared at the sleeping Xiao Yao before softly saying, “The tree grows old on land together, the mandarin ducks die together in the water – the Lover’s Bug connects heart to heart and our lives, and there truly is no way to remove the bug. Years ago I was only able to remove the bug from Zhuan Xu because he didn’t know it was you so he didn’t willingly accept the bug. So you never successfully planted the bug on him in the first place. But I….I was heart and soul willing, so the bug successfully planted in me. You asked me to remove the bug and I kept telling you I can’t do it, but you didn’t believe me. But I truly didn’t lie to you, I cannot remove the bug.”
Xiang Liu picked up Xiao Yao’s hand and used his finger as a knife to slice into the flesh of her palm and his palm back and forth until he drew a blood spell. “I cannot remove the bug, but I can kill the bug!
Now back to willingness. My take on this is that even if you have love if you are not willing, the bugs cannot be planted successfully (consent, ancient China style :-))
Agreed.
If you recall, XiaoYao grew the Lovers Bugs with the goal of planting them on Xiang Liu*. She only planted on CX out of desperation. Therefore, XY was not really willing either. When the bugs were shifted to Xiang Liu, we fulfilled the willingness condition for both partners.
Personally, I don't agree with this take. XY didn't know what the bugs really were at either point (when the bug was planted in CX and when it was transferred to XL). Her reasons for planting the bug in CX were similar to her reasons for planting the bug in XL. I don't think there's any reason to think that XY didn't willingly accept the bug that she planted in herself when the other bug was planted in CX, and then did accept the same bug after the other bug was transferred to XL.
I'm not sure if it's relevant to this analysis, but it might be worth noting that the drama writers changed when XY planted the bug in herself in the drama. They showed us XY planting the bug in herself early on (when she was staying in the remanent army camp) before trying and failing to plant the bug in XL.
One other factor that may or may not be relevant: XY told XL that the bug changed at a certain point after she planted it in CX, causing her to be unable to remove the bug from CX. I think that's probably a red herring and she was never able to remove the bug from CX, but with Tong Hua who knows. XY blames the change on the medicines that XL used to heal XY after she used her body to shield CX and save his life. But that's also right when XY became aware of CX's true identity. So if there was a change I imagine it was probably due to XY's awareness of CX's identity rather than the medicines that XL used to heal her.
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Chapter 7:
Xiao Liu didn’t answer and thought for a long time. Since he was a demon, and demons and creatures and monsters were all in the same world, perhaps he might know something. “It’s not that I don’t want to remove the bug, it’s that I can’t. Last time I was injured, you used all sorts of weird medicines on me. The bug had some type of transformation. He asked me to remove the bug and I lied that I’ll do it when he leaves. Recently I’ve been trying all sorts of ways to coax the bug out of him but nothing works.”
When the bugs were shifted to Xiang Liu, we fulfilled the willingness condition for both partners. We can say with reasonable confidence that XL loves XY by this point in the story (he must have been so happy when it was successfully planted since that means that the love was mutual), can we say the same thing about XY's feelings for XL? For me, it's a yes.
I think we can say that XL both loved XY and knew that he loved XY with strong confidence at that point. He knew that XY's bugs were Lovers' Bugs, he knew that XY wouldn't be able to transfer the bug from CX to just anyone, and he knew that he fit the criteria for the type of person that XY could transfer the bug to.
I personally think XY had some amount of love in her heart for XL at that point (that grew and deepened later in the story), but I'm not sure whether it was platonic or romantic. I'm not sure what the differentiating factors would be at that point, to determine whether it was romantic or platonic love.
I have another question. Do you think XY actually didn't know that they are Lovers Bugs? Or is she bullshitting like she oft to do?
She definitely didn't know. If she knew, there would be no reason for her to ask Se Mai Er or the Voodoo King about them. And it wouldn't make any sense for her to plan to plant the bug in XL (or to end up deciding to plant the bug in CX) if she knew what kind of bugs they were. She didn't know CX's identity at that point, and I'm confident that XY was not aware of XL's feelings for her at that point.
XY finding Jing being willing to die with her as a good thing is probably due to her "psychological deficiencies" that was mentioned earlier. It's warped and unhealthy, IMO. I don't know if Tong Hua meant for us to see this whole thing as admirable and romantic, because personally, it isn't.
I could not agree with this more. Actually, I almost always agree with everything you write.
The Message™ is supposed to be Healing™, but all I get from this awful happy ending is that XY never really got to deal with her issues in a somewhat healthy way but instead found herself in a very unhealthy relationship with this man, who, at the first sign of trouble, chooses to just give up and go die because life is too much and his poor sweet kind heart can't take it.
We're just supposed to imagine that after the novel ended, XY got to live thousands of happy years with him, wow, what a blissful life to be had. That requires more suspension of disbelief than any other fantastical element in this story. Divorce rates are going up in every corner of the world. Dahuang is no exception lololol
Jing got to be with XY, but he has to live with the knowledge that she'll always have another man in her heart
Bingo.
Deep breath nathsketch. Repeat after me: "I can not control other people's thoughts, feelings, and behaviour. I can only control my own". Are you feeling better?
I've been breathing since yesterday and it's not working. Those women are making me lose my cultivation hahah
"Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it"?
IMMA GET IT.
@AH
"Her reasons for planting the bug in CX were similar to her reasons for planting the bug in XL"
I agree with you, AH, that her reasons for planting the bugs were similar for both CX and XL, but to me what makes a difference it's the fact that she grew them for XL. I know that there is not a clear explaination in the book on how exactly these bugs grow, beside being a very hard task, but I always thought that these bugs grow on love, like I can't possible see any other way for a lover's bug to grow beside love. It is difficult to raise them because it is difficult to find someone who you truly love and it is even more difficult to find someone who accepts it, because how often your true love responds to your feellings? In TH's world, not too often.
Actually we do know a bit about how XY raised the bugs. XY mentions using magic spells from the Jiu Li Poison Voodoo Manual and using pieces of her own flesh and blood to raise them.
And XY said the walnut containing the bugs was also part of it. Maybe it acted like an incubator of sorts, perhaps with XY covering the outside with blood magic spells? I picture it being a little bit like a small version of the shell that XL covered in blood magic spells to extend XY's life in chapter 48.
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Chapter 7:
Xiang Liu asked, “What you are thinking?”
“How to remove that voodoo bug. Xuan’s follower came by once to ask.” With Xuan’s real identity, that bug might not hurt him, but it was more likely one day it’ll kill Xiao Liu since so many people wanted to kill Xuan. Xiao Liu also didn’t want people to use him anymore against Xuan so was genuinely racking his brains for how to remove it.
Xiang Liu said, “I told you, find another person and plant the bug there.”
"Who would be willing? Maybe one of Xuan’s men?”
Xiang Liu very casually said, “It can’t be just any person.”
“Why?”
“You raised the bug, you don’t know?”
“I…..I don’t know.” Xiao Liu confessed.
“Where did you get the bug?”
“Many years ago, I met an old lady from the Jiu Li tribe. You know that the legendary most fearless, vicious, cruel demon of all time Qi Yo was from the Jiu Li tribe. After he was killed by the Yellow Emperor, the entire Jiu Li tribe was demoted to slave status. The men and women were born into slavery. That old woman was a slave that no one wanted anymore. She was smelly and dirty, laying close to death in a pile of dirt. I found her very pitiful so I asked her what her final wish was before she died. She asked for a bath so she could go see her lover clean and pretty. I took her to the river and helped her bathe, then brushed her hair into the hairstyle of a Jiu Li woman. She gave me a blackened shriveled walnut, saying that she had nothing on her except this pair of voodoo bugs. She gave it to me as thanks. She told me to leave and then she died. Her body immediately attracted a lot of insects and was immediately devoured clean. Later on, when I didn’t know how to deal with you, I suddenly remembered this walnut I carried with me for a long time. I used it to raise the two voodoo bugs according to the magic of Jiu Li. I fed it pieces of my own flesh and blood, then one bug chose me, and then the other was meant for you but instead I planted it in Xuan.”
“How did you learn how to raise a voodoo bug?”
Xiao Liu’s eyes twirled. “That old woman told me!” Xiang Liu coldly laughed. “You’re full of shit. If she told you how to raise the bugs, how could she not have told you what the name of this particular voodoo bug was?”
Xiao Liu knew what he said was contradictory so just went with it. “Why do you care how I know how to raise voodoo bugs? I just do.”
Xiang Liu said, “The pair of voodoo bugs you have is very rare. If you want to remove it, the only way is to find another person and lure the bug into that person.”
“What are the requirements for that person?”
Xiang Liu said nothing, and after a moment, he stiffly barked, “I don’t know!”
Xiao Liu didn’t believe him, yet he didn’t know why Xiang Liu wouldn’t come out and tell him. So he tried asking, “Do you fit the requirement?”
Xiang Liu didn’t answer so Xiao Liu asked more “You are a nine-headed demon. Luring a voodoo bug into you, that can’t be a problem, right?”
Xiang Liu didn’t deny it so Xiao Liu took that as a tacit confirmation. Xiao Liu got all excited. “You said with your nine-heads, even if my body hurt then it wouldn’t hurt you much, right? So can I lure the bug over into your body?”
Xiang Liu stood there with his hands behind his back, staring at the moon, saying nothing. After a few moments he said, “I can help you lure the bug into me, but you have to promise that in the future you will do one thing for me. If I ask, you will do it.”
-----
Chapter 22:
“Every time you mention voodoo you just glance over it, but how exactly did you learn to raise and plant a voodoo bug? And who taught you all the poison tricks you know?”
Xiao Yao asked, “Can we talk secretly here?”
Zhaun Xu nodded and cast a protective spell barrier around them. Xiao Yao asked, “So you know the Sheng Nong Herb Manual?”
“Of course, legend has it the Flame Emperor used his entire life to write that manual after testing every living herb in existence. The entire world wants that manual but after the Flame Emperor died it disappeared.”
“It was actually with my Mom. Do you remember when Grandmother and Grandfather were both ill and it was my Mom who was healing them.”
“Of course, but I always thought Auntie learned medicine from the court doctors.”
“I did as well and it was only later that I realized my Mom learned medicine from the Flame Emperor.”
“But….how could that be? Grandfather long wanted to exterminate the Sheng Nong Kingdom.”
“Who knows? Perhaps my Mom stole it.”
“Nonsense!” Many times Zhuan Xu’s respect for Xiao Yao’s mom greatly eclipsed her own.
“When Mom left me in Jade Mountain, around my neck was a jade container that held the Sheng Nong Herb Manual which taught my Mom all about medicines, but it also contained the Jiu Li Poison Voodoo Manual which contained all the spells about using poison and bugs. When the Royal Mother discovered it, she said both books were future catastrophes if people discovered it. She forced me to memorize both and then she destroyed them afterwards.” Xiao Yao remembered how she cried and sobbed and refused to talk with the Royal Mother afterwards for destroying what her mom left for her.
Xiao Yao said, “Initially I tucked all that knowledge away in the back of my mind, but when I was captured by the Nine-tailed fox, I remembered the poison learnings. I knew I only had one chance to poison him so I was very careful, and even worried that the Voodoo King’s voodoo manual poisons were not deadly and discreet enough, and even used the Flame Emperor’s medical research to create more poisons.”
Xiao Yao waved her hands “My Mom left me those things likely wanting me to become a healer to ease the people’s suffering, but I think I’m going to become the poison master of my generation.”
Zhuan Xu smiled and touched her head. “You do whatever you like.”
-----
Chapter 48:
The inland sea of the Yang Valley nestled a crystal cave, and inside the cave an all-white sea shell floated on the surface. Blood-streaked magic chants were written all over the white sea shell and Xiao Yao silently laid within the magical spell. A strong water power was collected to envelope her like a misty blue fog, making her seem ethereal. Zhuan Xu reached out to try and touch her but was afraid of interfering with the magic so reached his hand back but continued to stare at her.
Xiao Xiao said, “The Miss gave herself a strong dosage so when we found you both, she was already dead and stopped breathing. But then Yin discovered there was a weak heartbeat in her so we brought both of you here to Yang Valley. Yin knew how to save Your Majesty but not how to revive the Miss, but then the Empress brought over this blood magic-covered white sea shell and said to put the Miss inside and it will help. Yin tried it for a few days and discovered it really did help, it continues to maintain the Miss’s weak heartbeat. Yin wanted to find out who created this magic sea shell but the Empress said she found the sea shell in the Gao Xing Royal Depository and it had been stored there for a long time, she just randomly came across it.”
Zhuan Xu asked Yin, “Can Xiao Yao wake up?”
Yin signed “The Miss poisoned herself with enough poison to kill herself. It’s not clear whether her body has built up tolerance to the poison or some other unknown factor, but she is technically dead as she’s stopped breathing. But for some weird reason her heart continues to beat. If this continues, she’ll likely sleep forever like this. I don’t have the skill to wake her up, but there is likely two people who can.”
“Who?”
“One is the Royal Mother, she supposedly knows all the magic in the world and can figure out the blood magic scribbled on the sea shell to wake Xiao Yao up. The other is the person who saved Xiao Yao the last time she was gravely injured. I determined Xiao Yao was dead at that time but that person actually saved Xiao Yao’s life.”
Zhuan Xu said, “Ready the cloud carriage. We’re going to Jade Mountain.”
...
The Royal Mother was gaunt but her energy was high, she listened to what Zhuan Xu had to say before ordering Lie Yang to open the sea shell.
Xiao Yao rested inside the sea shell like a precious pearl. After the Royal Mother checked on her, she noted that the blood magic written on the sea shell was a magic to extend Xiao Yao’s life. How did Zhuan Xu get a hold of such priceless treasure? The Royal Mother closed the sea shell and ordered, “Have the sea shell tossed in the lake!”
Zhuan Xu was alarmed, “Royal Mother!”
Royal Mother smiled, “I may be losing my mind but I’m not gone yet. I won’t kill her in front of you, much less harm a child I raised for seventy years.”
Zhuan Xu was relieved but worried. “A person living in the magical lake for long can’t handle it, much less Xiao Yao in her current weak state…”
“I don’t know what special things happened to Xiao Yao these years but her body now…” The Royal Mother stopped herself, sensing that Zhuan Xu did not know. Whether Xiao Yao didn’t want to tell him, or she didn’t know either, Royal Mother didn’t want to say any more. “I can’t say for certain but I know that Xiao Yao’s body is not afraid of water. Xiao Yao has stopped breathing, if it wasn’t for this special sea shell then her heart would have also stopped. Putting her in the lake will only do her good.”
...
Sir Bi finished placing Xiao Yao in the raft before turning back to Xiang Liu and warmly gesturing to the all-white seashell. “Seeing the seashell, even the Royal Mother marveled at the careful thought that went into preparing it to keep Xiao Yao alive. I asked Zhuan Xu’s servant and heard it was a treasure from the Gao Xing Palace repository. Tonight I realized that you made it, otherwise you could not have revived Xiao Yao this quickly. But………I don’t understand how the Empress on Five Gods Mountain would have kept this a secret for you.”
Xiang Liu explained, “Many years ago, Ah Nian promised that she would do one thing for me. I called the favor and asked her to use this seashell to keep Xiao Yao alive, but not to let the Black Emperor or Xiao Yao know. She’s a smart girl, she not only kept her promise, she also knows that there are some things in this world that she ought to forget right afterwards!”
Sir Bi sighed, “The White Emperor not only raised good disciples and students, he raised a good daughter.”
You're right, there's room to question whether CX's feelings for XY at that point were romantic or platonic, just as there's room to question whether XY's feelings for CX at that point were romantic or platonic.
For me, I'm 100% sure that XY never love CX in the romantic way; and CX didn't get there until the situation with Jing per your excerpt. Those are good enough % for me to draw a firm conclusion.
That doesn't seem to be aligned with what the Voodoo King said or with what XL said.
They both emphasize that willing acceptance of the bug is the key to successfully planting the Lovers' Bug. The Voodoo King seems to assume that only a lover (with romantic love for the cultivator) would willingly accept taking on the bug for life. XL says that the reason he and XY were able to transfer the bug from CX to XL was that CX did not willingly accept the bug (because he didn't know that WXL was XY), whereas XL wholeheartedly accepted the bug.
Sorry, I wasn't clear again. The comments that you responded to above were meant to be hypothetical. I was using the metaphor of a tree needing the right conditions and nutrients to thrive to illustrate how the Bugs need romantic love to thrive. It was not meant to present what was in the novel.
Your excerpt with the Voodoo King and Xiang Liu both supported the condition of willingness from both partners in order for the Bugs to be successfully planted and not become Heatbreak Bugs.
Personally, I don't agree with this take. XY didn't know what the bugs really were at either point (when the bug was planted in CX and when it was transferred to XL). Her reasons for planting the bug in CX were similar to her reasons for planting the bug in XL. I don't think there's any reason to think that XY didn't willingly accept the bug that she planted in herself when the other bug was planted in CX, and then did accept the same bug after the other bug was transferred to XL.
I do see your point. For me, her reasons were similar, but not exactly the same. For a start, she grew/nurtures those bugs intentionally and deliberately for Xiang Liu over a period of years. Kinda like how she creates poisons specifically for him - it was done with heart and love :-). The willingness is baked into this process. And it wasn't something that was done out of the blue, during desperation - initially, yes but again it was years before it came to fruition and the planting. With CX, it was not planned, but rather done out of desperation. I don't see a decision made under desperation to be truly willing.
I personally think XY had some amount of love in her heart for XL at that point (that grew and deepened later in the story), but I'm not sure whether it was platonic or romantic. I'm not sure what the differentiating factors would be at that point, to determine whether it was romantic or platonic love.
There aren't any clear differentiating factors really, in real-world or in fiction. We're essentially trying to use this plot device as a means of showing/proofing romantic love. I'm saying yes, because the Lovers Bugs that were meant for lovers planted successfully, you're saying no because we don't know if these particular Lovers Bugs work in the same way that most Lovers Bugs work :-).
For me, it comes down to the degree of reasonableness to draw a firm conclusion. Not 100%, certainty because that will never be the case, but reasonable enough.
She definitely didn't know. If she knew, there would be no reason for her to ask Se Mai Er or the Voodoo King about them. And it wouldn't make any sense for her to plan to plant the bug in XL (or to end up deciding to plant the bug in CX) if she knew what kind of bugs they were. She didn't know CX's identity at that point, and I'm confident that XY was not aware of XL's feelings for her at that point.
Remind me again who Se Mai Er was. The whole meeting with the Voodoo King was interesting and need a separate post. As for the rest. Perhaps, XY knew all along and the whole "using these bugs to deal with XL" is a ruse and what she has in fact loved him earlier on and wanted to use these Bugs tie him to her?? Given her fear of abandonment, what's better way to ensure the man that she loves can never leave her. Better to die together then being left behind.
With CX, it was out of desperation :-)
I'm not at all sure about this theory, just playing devil's advocate. I find that XY isn't always the most reliable person, she does a lot of lying by omissions and evasions.
(Qingyang/ Zuyu) is a character in "Zeng Promise". Zhuyu was originally made of wood, does not understand love, and loves without knowing it.
Qingyang knew that Zhuyu liked him, but he didn't tell her.
There is a paragraph in the original work of "Zeng Promise" as follows: "Maybe the eldest brother understands, but the eldest brother who understands has always allowed ZhuYu not to understand, just because the responsibilities on his shoulders have not been fulfilled. Maybe he has thought that one day, when the responsibilities on his shoulders are fulfilled, and then took Zhuyu to roam the south and north of the sky, just like when they first met. If there was no such day, he would rather ZhuYu never understand, never know how to be sad, but he didn't know that ZhuYu is ultimately sad."
Does this narrative have a sense of déjà vu for Xiang Liu?
The reaction that ZhuYu had when she found out about QingYang's death was identical to when XY found out about XL's death. It was at that point the readers realized that ZhuYu and QingYang love each other. XY never realizes how much she loves XL (or she just refuses to admit) just like ZhuYu to QingYang. She also doesn't know that XL loves her just the same as ZY/QY.
Yes and no. There is some similarity. They wanted their love one carefree from their responsibility/decision. But the circumstance are very different.
For Qing Yang: He was actually the one who nurtured Zuyu from a wooden stick to a mature wooden demon, transforming to human form. She was always by his side. She always supported and obeyed him. Although Qing Yang had a lot of responsibility, he might one day become king or free of responsibility (for example, when all of his siblings were happy, having their own life, his mom died or lived well). There was oppotunity for them. Then he would let her know that she had heart, had real feelings, she was not a fool.
And we all know the context between XL and XY. XL already knew the ending of Shennong army in advance. If he sticked to who he was, choosing righteousity he could never be free of responsibility.
Thank you for these details! I was always curious to know more about Zhu Yu and her relationship with Qing Yang.
Would you be able to clarify one more detail about another character I was curious about? Is "Auntie Ju Li" the same person as Princess Yun Xang? Was Sheng Nong Yun Xang her formal name, and Ju Li her nickname?
-----
Chapter 15:
In the flower covered hilltop, there were six graves containing her grandmother, eldest uncle, eldest aunt, second uncle, fourth uncle and fourth aunt (Zhuan Xu’s parents), and her mom. But in truth, three of the graves were empty and had nothing inside.
She wasn’t sure what was in her eldest uncle’s grave and only saw dogwood flowers growing all over his grave site. Her eldest aunt was married to her eldest uncle but she was also the Sheng Nong Kingdom’s eldest princess. When the Sheng Nong Kingdom fell, she incinerated herself and left no corpse behind so what was buried in her grave was her wedding dress when she married into Xuan Yuan.
-----
Once Promised Volume 2, Chapter 19:
Ah Heng stared into the distance at the red dusky light in the sky and realized it wasn’t the sunset glow but was Sheng Nong Yun Xang’s life as she died and became the smoke burning into the Heavens. The smoky streaks were like her beautiful smile as she bid farewell.
They grew up together and spent all their time on Cao Yun Peak as close as two real sisters. They shared their secrets and worries and when their mothers got sick and died they both did their filial mourning together in support.
“Jie Jie.”
-----
Chapter 47:
Xiao Yao ate a flower. “When Grandmother died, we vowed before my mom, your mom, Auntie Ju Li, we promised them that we would always take care of each other, together and never apart. I did it, but you didn’t! Gege, you didn’t do it!”
-----
Chapter 50:
When her grandmother was dying, her mother and her eldest aunt sat beside the bed day and night. Auntie Ju Li had her sleep on the same pallet as Zhuan Xu so she could watch them more conveniently.
...
Just as Xiao Yao got dressed Auntie Ju Li rushed into the room intending to wake the kids and was shocked to see them standing hand-in-hand by the door. She didn’t think more of it and grabbed them both. “We need to see Her Highness the Empress. Remember, whatever she says to you both, listen carefully and remember always.”
...
Grandmother gestured to Auntie Ju Li to take the kids out and let her speak with Xiao Yao’s mom and their big aunt.
Xiao Yao and Zhuan Xu stood outside for a while until they heard their eldest aunt sobbing. Zhuan Xu held Xiao Yao’s hand and ran back inside and they saw their grandmother with her eyes closed in peace.
...
Zhuan Xu turned his head and walked over to their Eldest Uncle’s grave and bowed three times. He also bowed three times to Auntie Ju Li’s grave beside it. He then cleared the weeds and Xiao Yao wiped her tears and walked over to join him. After bowing three times she started wiping down the tombs.
Each did their tasks silently, though Xiao Yao snuck a few peeks at Zhuan Xu but he never once glanced over at her.
After finishing the graves of their eldest uncle and eldest aunt, they went to clean their second uncle’s grave. Xiao Yao followed and they did the same there.
Auntie Ju Li
She is Zuyu (Different way of spelling of Ju Li). She was a wooden demon who was nurtured and raised up by Qing Yang from a wooden stick. Ju Li/Zu Yu was maid of Qing Yang when she became human form. She obeyed him unconditionally. Her role to Qing Yang is similar to Kim Xuan or Xiao Xiao to CX. Qing Yang and Shao Hao used to joke or tell her many time that she had no heart and she was a fool. She had believed so. She did not know what is love and she did not know that she loved Qing Yang. Before the last battle, Ah Heng let her know that Qing Yang had died and never come back. She was super devastrated, disbelieved , she pointed to her chest that she felt super hurt there, but how come, she had no heart etc...
Eldest aunt in LYF is indeed Shen Nong Yuxang in Once Promised who got married to Qing Yang althought he had died by the marry but she and other people didn't know except Ah Heng, Shao Hao and Chang Yi couple
Remind me again who Se Mai Er was
Se Mai Er is personal maid and physician of Jing's grandmother. She was elder sister of Voodoo King. Because of low class origin (all people from Jiu Li were consider low class), she was forced to be slave for high class deity. She ended up in Jing's family
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