You make him look as if love was all that he cared about, which IMO is not accurate.blabla100:
I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion, since I specifically said XL had enough back bone and pride not to be XY's leftovers choice or make the first step, no matter how much he loved her, so clearly love wasn't all he cared about. If all he cared about was love, he'd be crying and begging with empty promises and waiting on XY hand and foot and abandoning every thing in his life like Jing's pathetic a$$. How is wanting XY to declare her commitment to their love pathetic? How is not settling for being XY's doormat pathetic?
Jing was the only one out of them 4 who's only purpose in life was love/XY.
Jing SAID that but he certainly let numerous other people come before XY -- until one by one it was taken from him.
The way I see it XL's loyalty to his soldiers equals CX's desire for power and XY's wish to find a forever companion.
Equals how? They are all different things with different reasons behind them.
I personally don't even believe XL ever tried to pursue XY, as FFB told her once, she shouldn't care what's deep in his heart, because they are just temporarily companions, seeking a bit of happiness togheter. I don't understand what makes you believe that he wanted more out of their relationship.
Because it was right there in black and white in the character description for the casting call. Because there's no reason to accept the LOVERS Bug if XL didn't want a relationship with her. Because he wouldn't have been crushed by her rejection on the beach and have the Lovers Bug try to turn into Heartbreak Bugs, if he hadn't wanted to have a relationship with her.
FFB also told XY not to forget him, and told XY she should leave everything and come away with him, so that proves he was pursuing XY, doesn't it? And when he encountered WXL as a woman, he asked when they were going HOME, i.e. the place they shared a relationship that he wanted to continue, or why bother asking for her to return?
I honestly do not understand how anyone can watch XY and XL look at each in the drama and not understand they are in love and are longing for more. It's right there in the title.
Do you see him pursuing XY and make her give up everything, just so he can spend a few days each month with her? As FFB he sometimes dissapeared for months at a time, he was too busy being a general to tie XY up to him, he had other priorities in life than love and that's a fact.
Firstly, FFB spent months at a time with XY when they were playing in the Central Plains. Secondly, why do you think XL would lead a separate life from XY? He'd taken her to his camp and offered to do the same other times. He also bought the house in Q Town next to her clinic which he took her to after the marriage robbery. Thirdly, yes he had commitments to his resistance army, but that doesn't mean he couldn't do other things and have other commitments also, cause he most certainly did that when he went and played as FFB with XY and spent 37 years nursing her back to life. He had nine lives. It isn't like he couldn't have spared a life or 7 for XY, had they committed to each other, and still have been the last man standing with his resistance army. Millions upon millions of soldiers survive battlefields across ages.
Again, to think the army wasn't his main interest is like saying the throne wasn't CX's main purpose, which I personally don't believe is true.
CX's main purpose wasn't the throne or power for it's own sake. It was the misguided idea of having the power to protect himself and those he loved, i.e. XY. XL had committed to help the resistance army to the bitter end, but he proved repeatedly that it wasn't his only interest, because he repeatedly let CX escape assassination, because he loved XY, even if she rejected a life together. He honored both as best as he could.
You say XY wasn't clear enough with the crystal ball, I disagree. IMO XY was very straightforward with it and XL understood her message very well, that's why the novel ends with him sending it back to her.
I don't understand this. Are you saying he understood she was confessing to him, but he didn't 'accept' it because according to you, he never pursued a love relationship with her, but he kept this "confession" for decades afterwards, just so he could secretly and unknown to her return her 'confession' -- and that proves he never wanted a love relationship with her?
I didn't say that XL didn't understand the crystal ball. I said given the situation and how she had treated him, he was going to need more than that mess she sent him. He was going to need an outright commitment.
And I've said this repeatedly. Xiang Liu DID answer that XY's half a$$ed plea, even if it wasn't in the manner she expected. He showed up and rescued her from the marriage and gave her a chance to commitment to him. Instead she pitched a hissy fit when he showed up and when he gave her yet another chance to answer his direct question about what the heck she wanted, she refused to answer, and refused again to commit to him.
I sympathize with your perspective, but don't agree that XY changed her identity in order to avoid fulfilling her deal with XL.solarlunareclipse:
I didn't say she changed into Haolin's princess TO ghost XL, but WITH the change, she planned to ghost him. She told him she was going to pretend to not know him.
Whoa, "more pathetic than jing"....those are some strong words. Can't say that I disagree though ;)
I really don't understand what you think makes XL more pathetic than Jing.
Kokuto:
-100 points for XY for not realizing that XL had already answered this -- at least in the drama. He accepted the Lovers Bug while they were both sitting in his giant clam shell.
-100 points for being a passive lump!
-10000 points for involving FL in her messy ass romantic dealings. Not cool! Poor dude was like a roadkill on XY's highway of love :-)
XY was the first one who SAID, "I don't want a man like you." Waiting until the oh so 'suitable' Jing failed her utterly, made it clear XL wasn't her first choice, and then hedging her bets with the Dear John letter certainly would make any man have doubts about whatever she was trying to say with the crystal ball, much less a proud man like XL. He was a demon, not a doormat.
If XY was sincere she needed to say it openly, just like she said her rejection.
Agreed!
Some think that XY should have been more direct in her confession and plea. But the way I see it, XY is doing exactly what XL did for her. XL never openly confessed, nor did he try to force XY into anything; he subtly hinted at his intentions and allowed XY to choose for herself.
The issue here is that earlier on she was the one who said having a man like him walking into a girl's dream would be worse than death. She didn't want to give them a chance for that and other (valid) reasons but chose to give Jing a chance for the very reason that she didn't want to give XL a chance even though Jing was engaged and she might have to wait around for 15 years while he gets his shit together. She had obviously weighed up the gains and losses and chosen the option that she believes had a better return. Now that her investment turned out to be bad, and she wants to start something with XL, she's going to have to go all out to make up for the previous "rejection". Maybe hiring a band and a flash mob would do the trick :-). But it has to be clear and leave no doubt about her intentions. A crystal ball on the eve of her marriage to another man, ain't going to cut it. That just screamed, "I'm not quite sure and hedging my bet". I wouldn't take that bait. What if years down the track when the going gets tough, will she be resentful and blame him for making her life worse than death? Who wants to deal with that?
I would like to add that her accepting Jing's proposition is totally fine. With her issues, it makes sense why she would be reluctance to explore things with XL. Although, getting involved with an engaged man ain't a good look and speaks to her impaired judgement and moral standards. And I'm also not saying that if she has been less passive that would mean a happy ending for her and XL. XL would also need to do his part. It's about her decision making process, what action she took and how that comes across. Does that makes sense?
I may have misunderstood both of you guys completely, but it seems to me that what you're fundamentally disagreeing with is each other's views about whether Xiang Liu did or did not initially plan to pursue a relationship with Xiao Yao. Is that correct? I think it all comes down to pre-Xiao Yao and post-Xiao Yao.
Kokuto has always interpreted his willingness to be the host of the Lovers' Bugs as yes, he was in a very Foreigner mood and he wanted to know what love is because, in his life, there's been heartache and pain.
There's also that casting description. That's pretty suspicious. It seemed to indicate he may have really wanted to talk about love. :D
Now, Blabla is of the opinion that no, upstanding cool dude, career-focused Xiang Liu has no time for these mortal shenanigans. Never did. So not even a sniff of wanting to know what love is.
Anyhoo, having not read the novel in its entirety (only the countless paragraphs you guys have been posting here for months), I do believe that Xiang Liu wasn't totally averse to pursuing some more serious frolicking, as in, eh, maybe something good will come out of this. Especially when she was still Wen Xiao Liu and did not have all the family baggage that would put them on opposite sides of the war.
Otherwise, it would be sad to think that he was always determined to eventually die on the battlefield, with no other fate left for him. The possibility of dying an untimely death was certainly bigger for him, but it wasn't set in stone that he would die for sure. I get the impression that he is a character who appreciates life. People keep telling me he wasn't suicidal, and I agree, so this contradicts it a little bit. Also, why is it that the fact that he is a soldier automatically makes it impossible to believe that he may have wanted a normal life? These things are not mutually exclusive.
Now, as for that whole nonsense at the beach, I see it as XY doing what she usually does. Lying to herself and thinking she's oh-so-smart. Yes, I don't like her. I don't sympathize with her and I don't see her selfishness as some free pass card for bad decisions. It all became a mess when she reverted to her true form and it only went downhill from there.
I am still more inclined to believe that his laugher after she told him that she's afraid of him walking into her dreams was not because he got offended and took her reply as a rejection (can that even be considered a rejection?), but because he knew that that's already too late, because he had already fallen into her dreams.
I agree with you on this. But I also think she fumbled things up to the point he decided to not try anything further. Also the family/enemy stuff. That was hard.
What I am trying to say is not that XL didn't want a relationship with XY, but that he already got the relationship he planned with her. I do not believe he wanted or tried to get more out of it
This part I don't fully agree with because who's to say what exactly was the kind of relationship he planned with her? At first, he wasn't even aware that she was the lost princess, so why would he want something only temporary? If it's the thing with him knowing he was doomed to die, again, I refuse to believe he was suicidal.
I know that the scene of him throwing the bottle in anger after discovering who she really was wasn't in the novel, but why did they add that if not to show he was not pleased with this discovery? And if he wasn't pleased, what could possibly be the reason for this anger?
After she became a princess, I'm quite sure he wouldn't try to "get more out of it" as you said, but I do think he wanted it. It's difficult to be certain because we never get to read his POV.
In short, I think they're both to blame, they're both stubborn and they both missed precious opportunities and left so many things unsaid to the point we keep engaging in these endless analyses. However, I know that I tend to criticize Xiao Yao more because, the way I see it, she's not the only person in this story who has suffered physically and psychologically and experienced loss, yet it's like her sob story is the only one that makes her level of selfishness seem justified. I remember someone here saying that they can relate to her wanting stability and a family and the whole nine yards. That's great. Except she doesn't want just that. She had a family back in Qingshui Town. What she wants is a doormat. A person who only lives and dies for her, who never abandons her, who has absolutely no other goal in life except accompanying her for all eternity. That's sick. It never gets addressed, not by her, and not by anyone around her, but it is. Jing is, of course, the perfect doormat because he virtually has no personality other than attaching his value to her. That's also sick. It's a sick relationship.
As for Xiang Liu, he could never be pathetic, much less "more pathetic than Jing", because (1) that's impossible aheueheuhe, and (2) despite his love for her and yes, his wishes for something more, he also has responsibilities. They all do. Even Jing. The thing with Jing is that his lack of attitude makes him inept in dealing with anything. He can't deal with his family, he can't tend to his responsibilities, and he most definitely can't keep his promises. I'm not sure what he effectively can do other than throw money around. Please let me know when you find out.
XY is the problem. People often say she didn't know, that there was no way for her to know how much he loved her. That he hid everything behind the excuse of a transaction. This is extremely debatable. Xiang Liu is like that boy in school who keeps pushing you away, saying mean things, and pulling your hair. PULEASE. Be for real. For someone who considers herself the smartest cookie in town, she must be the blindest, most stupid person in Dahuang. I thought those powerful beings were supposed to be clever.
I honestly do not understand how anyone can watch XY and XL look at each in the drama and not understand they are in love and are longing for more. It's right there in the title.
I don't either, which is quite something considering how much of their relationship has been diluted in the drama in order to push the "official pairing". It never worked for me. I was convinced XL was the endgame. Everything about their relationship screams endgame. As someone who went in knowing nothing about this story, I never, not once, had the impression that Xiang Liu was only there chilling and waiting to die. For me, it's so clear that there was a time when he wanted a relationship for real, but things got derailed and by then it was too late.
As with any character-driven story, since XY was unable to make a decision to be with XL, we will never know what XL would have done. Would he have fought harder to stay alive? Would he have thought of a way for them to be together? The demon has nine heads, as conflicted as he is, I'm sure if TH had wanted to write it this way, there would have been a way to write it without compromising XL's integrity.plor20:
100% this. The saddest thing is that we will never know for sure what he would have done.
I dislike so much the interpretation that if Xiang Liu were to, FOR ONCE, think about his own survival, and his interests, it would compromise the character that we all know and love. It's like it's imperative for him to be dead and blown to pieces to show how selfless and loyal to his comrades he is. I love his character, but I would love him even more if he ended up alive.
Rant over. Back to Foreigner.
From weibo. The weibo address is on the bottom right hand corner.
liddi:
It is originally from Baidu, a Chinese wiki equivalent, where users can go in and edit the entries.
Another entry is Xiao Yao's, which refers to the drama version.
In both Baidu pages, Xiang Liu is described as 挚爱, meaning true love.
Thank you..^^
It is originally from Baidu, a Chinese wiki equivalent, where users can go in and edit the entries.
Another entry is Xiao Yao's, which refers to the drama version.
In both Baidu pages, Xiang Liu is described as 挚爱, meaning true love.
IOW, it's like a table I could make up and post?
I'm surprised there aren't more editing fights over it. ;p
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