Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 Meow:

I want to share with you my thoughts and discuss them. When I finished reading Once Promised, I spent a lot of time thinking about parallels. I don't have the English version of OP because I read it in my language, but I'll try to explain.

Thank you for sharing @Meow (cute name :-))

In many ways, LYF is Once Promised with different choices and therefore a different outcome. So having parallel between the two works makes sense. 

 Meow:

She said that only when Chi Cheng died she truly understood her great love for him, and his heart stayed with her. She said, 'Once I dreamed of exploring the whole world with you, but now I understand – you are my world. But even though we're close, we're separated by life and death. We can't touch each other, and I'll never hear your heartbeat. The pain of missing you consumes me like poison, cutting me like a knife night after night. When the peaches bloom again, my longing and pain have nowhere to go, so I conjure up a sandstorm just to hear your heartbeat again.'

If this is the parallel to how XY will be without XL then it's very sad. For XY, she literally experienced a shared heartbeat with XL for 100+ years. His heartbeat accompanied her when she felt most lost and lonely.  Once the Lovers Gu connection was severed, it would just be her heart on its own. 

And I noticed the words used to describe A Heng's pain of missing Chi You is "consumes me like poison and cutting me like a knife". The intro to LYF talked about Eternal Yearning being like poisonous wine and when XY heard of XL's death, it was like a sharp blade suddenly pierced her heart. 

 Meow:

I thought Ah Heng and Chi You killed each other, but the Yellow Emperor used his daughter as bait. He knew that Ah Heng had new abilities for destroying a big army after "dying" some years ago. He used everyone in his family.

Didn't he also try to recruit Chi You, but Chi You refused? If I was XL, I would be leary of any offer of recruitment given the history of ruthlessness from this family. And he did use A Heng. He took advantage of Ah Heng's relationship with Chi You and sacrificed his daughter (and all of his children) for his ambition and greed. 400 years on and he never once thought to look for his daughter. His mellowness and regret just ring hollow to me. All well and good to feel sorry when you already got everything that you wanted at the expense of everyone else.

 Kokuto:

Well, this is an interesting take ... I didn't know that the first attempt at LYF planned to eliminate Jing entirely.  LOL!  Something interesting to think about and how it would work for the drama, book and XY.

I posted about the first proposed adaptation of LYF dated back to 2014? 

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=3051609&page=599#p3051609

The plan was for CX and XL to be dual male leads with a focus on CX's journey to power. If there was going to be Jing, then his role would probably be as advisor to CX or he could be cut out and his part could be consolidated with Feng Long. It just showed that his role in the story really is to be XY's companion. 

I personally think that XY ending up with him is a huge mark against her growth. At best, it's a co-dependence relationship. At worst, their relationship has a more sinister tone that gives me the heebie-jeebies. I actively choose to believe in the former because I don't want to think of poor XY in the second scenario.

@windiaaa

Is that the flowers article written by YOLO that TH shared on her weibo? I don't really understand what it is about, but I read all the articles you posted by her and to me YOLO's take on lyf makes the most sense. She is definetely very familiar with TH's style. Do you happen to know if she has any article about XY's suicide? I tried to search for one, but I don't have an weibo account and I couldn't find one on other sites.

Xiaoyao's psychological description is exactly the same as Ruo Xi's description in "BubuJingxin".

When Ruoxi was serving tea in the palace, she often felt depressed and suffered from insomnia (her symptoms were the same as Xiaoyao's). There is also a famous scene where Ruoxi is forced to kneel in the rain, and the fourth prince also stands in his yard and gets drenched in the rain. Ruoxi monologues: "Knowing that there are other people who feel the same way, and that I'm not alone in suffering it, it feels like there's always someone by my side, which comforts me a lot."

Xiaoyao felt her chest so tight that she couldn’t help but turn over and sit up, gasping for breath. At first it was just insomnia, but as time went by, it seemed like I was experiencing heartache. She knew that Xiang Liu would be bullied by her again. Over the years, there were countless dark and lonely nights, when the pain was unbearable, knowing that there was someone who felt the same way, that she was not alone in enduring everything ,as if there was someone accompanying her, comforting her Lots.

 HeadInTheClouds:

I'm still trying to reconcile the massive shift in the character following the QS Town arc.

I don't think her innate character changed after leaving QS Town. Instead, her situation changed: she became a woman and had to navigate life in a patriarchal society. She had to honor her vow to always support Cang Xuan and live up to the expectations and responsibilities of her royal identity. She was no longer in control of her own circumstances after leaving QS Town.

 HeadInTheClouds:

Even her helping CX was largely passive and took on the very traditional role of being a matrimonial prize. And she was also a bit half-assed about that, as well.

I believe she did a lot for Cang Xuan. She gave up Xiang Liu, the man she loved, for him. She saved his life multiple times and was willing to sacrifice her own life to protect him. She saved him from Xiang Liu's assassination attempt in Qing Shui Town, from Fang Feng Yi Ying's assassination attempt in Qing Shui Town, and from Fang Feng Bei's assassination attempt in Xuan Yuan. She also prevented King Xuan Yuan from sentencing him to death for a failed assassination plot and saved his life with her archery skills during Cang Lin's assassination attempt.

Xiao Yao diligently practiced archery every day, partly to be ready to protect Cang Xuan if needed. She was the one who got Cang Xuan in front of King Xuan Yuan when they first arrived in Xuan Yuan. When Cang Xuan was addicted to drugs, she helped him detox. She allowed Cang Xuan to use her as a matrimonial prize, despite wanting to disentangle herself from Jing and knowing she was not compatible with Feng Long. Her being used as a matrimonial prize was a reflection of the societal role of women at the time, and shouldn't be counted as a mark against her character. Moreover, during King Xuan Yuan's surprise abdication announcement, Xiao Yao was ready to take decisive action to help Cang Xuan in case things didn't go their way:

“I hid, and I……I decided that if you were to announce Uncle Cang Lin as the next Emperor, I would immediately assassinate Uncle Cang Lin.”

— Vol 2 Ch 11 (Chapter 28)

 HeadInTheClouds:

I posted about the first proposed adaptation of LYF dated back to 2014?

https://mydramalist.com/discussions/lost-you-forever/110123-xl-and-xy-story-and-romance-warning-spoilers?pid=3051609&page=599#p3051609

The plan was for CX and XL to be dual male leads with a focus on CX's journey to power. If there was going to be Jing, then his role would probably be as advisor to CX or he could be cut out and his part could be consolidated with Feng Long. It just showed that his role in the story really is to be XY's companion.

Thanks for the link and the clarifications. It's harder to find old posts in this forum than it is for Xiao Yao to find someone willing and able to accompany her. It's interesting that the rights to adapt the book changed three times. It's also interesting that the Hengdian Studio version decided to greatly diminish or eliminate Jing's role. This makes me even more convinced that Jing isn't all that important to the overall plot development of the story.

 HeadInTheClouds:

I personally think that XY ending up with him is a huge mark against her growth. At best, it's a co-dependence relationship. At worst, their relationship has a more sinister tone that gives me the heebie-jeebies. I actively choose to believe in the former because I don't want to think of poor XY in the second scenario.

I have a different perspective. I don't see Xiao Yao as ever being dependent on Jing, nor do I think she was manipulating him. Jing, who is able to read Xiao Yao very well, admitted that Xiao Yao can go on just fine without him.

“No, I see you as more important than my life. Xiao Yao, you resented me for saying I wasn’t good enough for you yet I refused to let go. Actually, I know that you can go on just fine without me. I know that Fang Fang Bei is more suitable for you. But I can’t let you go, as long as I am alive then I can’t! I’m sorry, I’m sorry…..”

— Vol 2 Ch 5 (Chapter 22)

Xiao Yao knew Jing was unreliable and often had to solve his problems herself. She gave him a chance to be by her side because:

1. This is what he wanted: only she made him feel like a complete man and he couldn't let her go.
2. She pitied him and felt responsible for his well-being, as his savior.
3. Cang Xuan needed Jing's help and asked her to string him along.
4. He took care of her and helped distract her from her longing for Xiang Liu.
5. He served as a mask, allowing her to successfully hide her feelings for Xiang Liu, because people assumed her behavior was due to her feelings for Jing.

When proposing the 15-year contract, Jing knew that Xiao Yao had deep feelings for Xiang Liu and didn't have any romantic feelings for him. Despite this, he was eager to proceed, hoping that Xiao Yao would eventually grow to love him. He reassured Xiao Yao that he was willing to wait a lifetime, even if she never developed feelings for him.

十七说：“我知道你不会给自己希望，不会先信任，不会先投入，桑甜儿愿意用虚情假意去赌一生，你却即使是真心实意，如果对方不珍惜，你也会舍弃。我愿意等，等到你愿意时。”
Shi Qi said, “I know you won't give yourself hope, won't trust first, won't invest first. Sang Tian'er is willing to gamble her life using false affection, but you, even if you are sincere in your affection, if the other person doesn't appreciate it, you will give up on him. I'm willing to wait, willing to wait until you are ready.”

“如果我一辈子都不愿意呢？”
“What if I’m not ready throughout my entire lifetime?”

“那就等一辈子。只要你别消失，纵使这样过一辈子，也是好的。”
“Then I'll wait for an entire lifetime. As long as you don't disappear, even if we live like this for a lifetime, it's still good.”

— Vol 1 Ch 8 (Chapter 8)

Over time, the fake affection Xiao Yao showed Jing turned into real affection because she realized he was truly devoted to her. However, we know that her deep affection for him never turned into romantic love because the Poisonous Lovers' Bugs never retaliated. I also see Xiao Yao as always capable of letting Jing go. Her conversation with Fang Feng Bei outside the donkey meat restaurant clearly implies that Xiang Liu was the person she could never forget. He was the one who shared her interests and made her journey more interesting. Xiao Yao was incredulous when Xiang Liu tried to push Jing on her because she didn't want any part of the hot mess of a situation Jing was in, and she didn't think she would have any trouble forgetting him.

Xiao Yao softly asked “Bei, tell me…..why is it so hard to find a person to walk the path with?”

Fang Feng Bei said “Finding a person isn’t hard, finding a person who shares the same interest, genuinely treats you well, and makes the journey more interesting, that is what is hard.”

Xiao Yao asked “Can one never forget a person for an entire life?”

“Depends on the person. If you are talking about Jing, then I think it’s highly possible.”

“Do you mean he can’t forget me, or I can’t forget him?”

Fang Feng Bei smiled “However you want to interpret.”

— Vol 2 Ch 12 (Chapter 29)

After Xiao Yao found out the truth about the Poisonous Lovers' Bugs from the Voodoo King, she waited on the ocean for Xiang Liu, probably using their PLB connection to signal to him. After talking with him, she completely forgot about Jing and was prepared to jump into the ocean after Xiang Liu.

When Jing disappeared, Xiao Yao was devastated because she genuinely cared for him and because her hopes for a stable married life were dashed. Despite this, she still had enough wits about her to help search for him until she collapsed from exhaustion. However, after Jing been missing for about a month, I believe Xiao Yao intentionally went to the East Sea and walked into an obvious trap because she was desperate to see Xiang Liu and hoped he would come to save her, not because she had any real hope of saving Jing through her actions.

Xiao Yao ended up with Jing because he was the only one willing to be with her. The world situation at the time was such that women didn't have the choice to live independent lives. To quote A Nian:

“Marrying is the only way out for a woman, unless you want to go to Jade Mountain and be the next Royal Mother.”

— Vol 2 Ch 13 (Chapter 30)

That's why Xiao Yao lived as a man for hundreds of years—an act she felt too dejected to continue after Xiang Liu saved her, but left her on Jade Mountain. What was the point, since Xiang Liu, the man she loved, had rejected her last attempt to keep him in this world? Jing showed up in time to stop her from becoming the Royal Mother, but I think she went with Jing partly because she realized Xiang Liu saved Jing for her. She knew she had to get her act together and live a good life because that's what Xiang Liu wanted for her. Another reason was because she cared for Jing and was genuinely happy to see him.

In the end, Xiao Yao chose to let Jing accompany her. However, I think Tong Hua and Xiang Liu also share part of the responsibility for Xiao Yao ending up with Jing, as this was all part of the complicated scheme to turn Xiao Yao's three "have-nots" into "haves." I don't think Xiao Yao was ever co-dependent on Jing, nor did she have any sinister intent in trying to manipulate him. She did her best to fulfill his wishes, just as she did with her Qing Shui Town family, Cang Xuan, and Xiang Liu.

@AH

Chapter 6 from this video has some interesting analysis of the song Europapa. It's deeper than it appears at first glance.

Thank you for sharing this interesting and detail analysis of Europapa. When my husband shared this song the first time, my first reaction is it had no chance of winning or suitable for Eurovision song contest; it is too Dutch (i can’t catch the lyrics and can’t understand it). As time closer and closer to the event, the song was played a lot on radio and my kids get excited about it. The 7 year old boy can sing the whole song including the rap part.

I know this song was dedicated to his parents who passed away when he was underage (his mom died just 1 year after his dad’s death) and he was about 12 at that time. During the semifinal the last part of the song where he spoke to his parents was used as except for the song. First i had thought that part was not most memorable and representative for the entire song. After watching this clip, I fully understand the choice of using that part as thumbnail for the song. It is pity that he could not sing the song in the final due to unrelated matter

 AH :

Chapter 6 from this video has some interesting analysis of the song Europapa. It's deeper than it appears at first glance. 

 AH :

And all of that is hidden under layers of a narrative that might seem relatively simple and mostly happy (with the sharpest pain often masked by a smile) to someone who doesn't take the time to examine the details / to look deeper. 

Thanks for sharing the song and the interesting analysis. I agree that it is somewhat reminiscent of LYF. At first, it seems like a happy, upbeat song, but upon closer examination, it tells a tale of tragedy and despair. The song is really catchy though, and my 5-year-old has been singing it since I showed her the video.

Another song my daughter really likes to sing is Loch Lomond, a Scottish folk song written from the point of view of a soldier who was about to be executed and would never be able to see his true love again. This song also reminds me of LYF. I find the last verse especially beautiful.

The wee birdies sing, and the wild flowers spring,
And in sunshine the waters are sleeping
But the broken heart it kens nae second spring again,
Tho' the waeful may cease frae their greeting

wee = tiny
kens = knows
nae = no
waeful = woeful
frae = from
greeting = crying

The last two lines basically mean the crying may stop over time, but the broken heart will never heal.