Kokuto:
Yeah, I have a hard time reconciling what I've heard of him in Once Promised and Daddy Emperor in LYF. They really don't seem like the same guy and I don't see him handing over everything he worked so hard and ruthlessly to claim, to CX. I'd love to see a book on his story, and the transformation.
The old Xuan Yuan king is another example, based on what little I have learnt about him in Once Promised. I think Lost You Forever has them in their twilight years, filled with regrets. The old Xuan Yuan king was pretty much alone, trying to atone for how he failed his family. Before A Heng went to war, she exacted a promise from him that he would protect Cang Xuan and hand over the throne to him one day. Likewise, with Shao Hao - living in regrets and trying to make up to all he wronged, though in his case, I feel that it is a combination of his genuine love for Xiao Yao, and his guilt towards Qing Yang over A Heng and Zhong Yi - for not protecting them the way he promised Qing Yang he would. Handing over Gao Xin to Cang Xuan would also work as a form of recompense for what he owed them, which I believe he would have planned all those years ago when he guided Cang Xuan, knowing that this day would come and Cang Xuan would one hold him accountable for what happened to his parents.
I might be one of the very few people who thinks XY believes she's smart and intelligent but actually isn't very smart or intelligent, and overcompensates by trying to be selfless.plor20:
Hmm. Maybe her intelligence is restricted to physical survival, but outside of that sphere, she's lacking. She has the intelligence to learn poison and medical skills, but when it comes to emotional intelligence, interpersonal skills and adapting and thriving in different environments, she was not so great. I think she spent most of her life in survival mode, and she doesn't really know how to operate outside of that environment. She's like an emotionally stunted adolescent and like many adolescents, she thinks she knows more than she does and she could be self-fish and self-absorbed.
One way she covers her low self-esteem is by being as selfless as possible,
I agree that XY has low self-esteem and lacks the feeling of security. She doesn't think she is lovable or worthy; she worries that no one will truly love her and will abandon her. Hence, the insistent on someone who will never leave and always puts her first - she sees that as love and security. It's a very juvenile outlook on love which is fitting considering her stunted development. And is certainly reflected in her relationship with other people as well - if I give them XYZ and they need me then they won't leave me.
As Wen Xiao Liu, you see and understand her flaws, and you keep watching, hoping for her to overcome them, but in the end, you find yourself quite dissatisfied because everything about her flaws is amplified as a princess, with no real growth. She achieves everything she wants at the expense of losing the people she actually loved.
I'm wondering if WYL was merely the survival aspect of her and XY is who she truly is. 'Cause I find it odd that her personality changed so drastically when she became XY again. Yes, it's a foreign environment and it takes time to adapt, but to go from quite proactive to this passive lump was drastic. Whenever she was in physical danger, WYL came out, but other than that she was a passive, mopey mess.
I think TH wants to emphasise her love for XL by having her heading out to sea and from a metaphorical perspective, her leaving her family to head to the sea could be seen as breaking free. But, just from XY's character development perspective, I don't know. This sort of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" just seems too drastic and points to someone who doesn't know how to balance competing demands. Again, it's quite in line with her adolescent mentality. She and Jing are both similar in these aspects. A pair of teenagers who dumped all the headaches of adulting to run off. I'm not too fond of her, "my princess position is such a burden/shackle" thing either. Who isn't restricted by their identity/position to some extent? I'm sure the Juili slaves would love to trade their restrictions for hers. The privileges that she had and all the things that she could have done if she had been able to see beyond herself. But yes, childhood trauma that she refused to address continued to hamper her all the way through the novel. I think had she shown any genuine attempt to embrace her circumstances, and then decided to head out to explore, that would have been a very different thing.
I do question how much of her self-delusion should be attributed to each factor:solarlunareclipse:
Pure selfishness and/or insecurity
Obligations to CX and her family
A whole lot of A with a tiny dash of B.
I also question how successful she is in self-hypnotizing. How much did she believe her own BS vs how much did she know and acknowledge the truth deep down, but just feel helpless to do anything about it.
Did she even try though? In the beginning, she immediately went for Jing and didn't even want to fight for her and XL. She just accepted that he was going to die and that was that. Yes, I know, the crystal ball. But my god, that is a passive way of trying. Not to mention, whenever she hits a speed bump, the girl immediately does a U-turn. Her conviction, determination and fighting power when it comes to love were non-existence.
Thank you for your verification. Very confusing word since many non english native speakers know the word fidel or fidelity which might be used for loyalty in romantic relationship.H19279:
A lot of English is confusing, even to native speakers. :)
According to Oxford dictionary (and The free dictionary that I usually use), adultery means " sex between a married person and somebody who is not their husband or wife " or "Consensual sexual intercourse between a married person and a person other than the spouse. " respectively.
Yes, I think adultery is usually applied to both parties if one of them is in a legal relationship of some sort. But there are relationships which may not fit that legal definition, but where it's still considered wrong, and adulterer is probably the closest description. I think there was an older word, that isn't commonly used anymore, fornicator, which would apply -- but it also means anyone who has pre-martial sex.
The old Xuan Yuan king is another example, based on what little I have learnt about him in Once Promised. I think Lost You Forever has them in their twilight years, filled with regrets.liddi:
Yes, him too. I knew he was ruthless, but I was shocked when what he did with Tong and Ah Lei was revealed. He was a real piece of work and I had a hard time reconciling him with Granddaddy Emperor too.
I guess the problem I have with the change in both of them, is it hasn't been all that long since Once Promised. CX and XY are only a few hundreds of years old? Five hundred max. Daddy Emperor was still killing people ruthlessly, like those maids and his 5 brothers to keep the throne, in XY's lifetime. So, to me, the change seems sudden.
Ditto, Granddaddy Emperor. He sent his XY's mom to die on the battlefield, and was letting his kids kill each other, again in XY's lifetime. Heck, he did nothing about his last two sons trying to off CX. He was ruthless about the Central Plains too, especially after someone tried to assassinate him.
Before A Heng went to war, she exacted a promise from him that he would protect Cang Xuan and hand over the throne to him one day. Likewise, with Shao Hao - living in regrets and trying to make up to all he wronged,
Maybe that's the case, but both of them sure seemed to continue being ambitious afterwards -- and I can't say I thought Granddaddy Emperor did a good job protecting CX at all.
Was A Mei the founder of Jade Mountain?
No, A Mei was not the founder of Jade Mountain. It was explained in chapter 4. Jade Moutain had been holy land from the ancient time. I think the imperial dynasty in Jade Mountain had been founded at the same time of the beginning of the Great Wildness or if later then it should be equal with Sheng Nong kingdom. Below is the translation (mainly done by google translate from Vietamese) of the excerp:
To the west of the great wilderness there is a beautiful mountain called Jade Mountain[2]. Jade mountain is an ancient holy land, its spiritual envinroment is extremely special, no matter what magical weapons, as soon as entering Jade Mountain, it will lose all its magic power. Jade Mountain is truly a paradise outside the world, there will never be any fighting. . All women in charge of Jade Mountain must follow ancient instructions, not get involved in the mortal world, and stay away from conflict. Through many wars of the Deity Clans, the Jade Mountain Imperial, located outside the world, has sheltered many gods and demons, even the two ancient deity clans, Sheng Nong and Gao Xin, both received the favor of Jade Mountain Imperial. Therefore, Jade Mountain's position in the great wilderness is extremely noble, even the Three Emperors had to make some concessions.
Do correct me if I am wrong but I was given to understand that she loved the Shen Nong king (Flame Emperor) but because he only loved another woman Ting Qi, she retreated to Jade Mountain, became the Royal Mother and never left. When she learnt of his death, heavy snow fell on Jade Mountain which was always spring all year round, the peach blossoms that bloomed all year round withered, and A Mei's hair turned grey overnight.
I also have the same understanding. She never said she love Sheng Nong king but her action implied that. Sheng nong King (at that time he was a prince), A Lei and A Mei were close friend. They travelled and discovered the Great Wildness together. One afternoon at the sunset, A Mei was dancing with the sound from Sheng Nong prince's flute, A Lei recalled the young man that she had met before and left the group to chase that man who later became Xuan Yuan King. Sheng nong prince also recalled the girl watering plants by the river and realized his love for her. He stopped and left the group and then he got married to that low classed deity girl. Since she was low classed, to make the wedding possible, he made/arranged a relative connection between her and Chi Shui clan. However, she had very low spiritual power thus poor health and their children also had poor physical properties. One baby girl died infancy. Wu (or Yu) Wang did not have much talent. A Mei probably felt betrayed by her close friends (and her crush) and retreat to Jade Mountain and later became Royal Mother.
It is said that in the novel that she kept her appearance as a 18 year old girl (like the moment the group fell apart). She never saw her friends again. Just before his death, Sheng Nong king sent 2 spiritual wooden birds to his friends: one to "old" Lei Zhu and one to Jade Moutain. The bird flow to the Royal mother and sang the music piece that he had played on the day they farawelled. Royal Mother danced to complete her unfinished move last time. Then the bird turned into ash. Royal Mother turned into old woman overnight. I understand as she had been waiting for him all the time, she wanted to show him her dance and kept young appearance for him by using spiritual power.
What was A Mei's powers? Was Jade Mountain's mysterious powers due to her, or had it always been this, and she merely harassed its inherent spiritual energy? I presume she would have been around the same age as the Shen Nong king and Xie Zu (and by extension the Xuan Yuan king) as well, since they were close friends in their youth, while Jade Mountain gave the impression of an ancient, otherworldly place.
As mentioned in the excerpt, Jade mountain has unique and magical environment. Thus its inhabitants could receive special spiritual qi to improve their spiritual power. Jade Mountain also had a lot of magical antifacts which might be used for cultivation to improve A Mei's power. She had used her power to keep her appearance looking young. When she learnt about his death, her hope shattered and her grieve transform her power and made snow storm in Jade Mountain. The peach bloom withered and there was no more special peach to organise the every-3 year peach banquet.
There is an interesting epilogue in the 2019 revised edition that covers the period when Xiao Yao was missing from Jade Mountain, and Cang Xuan and the Gao Xin king's ceaseless search for her. It mentions the chilling punishment the Gao Xin king sentenced the two maids whose thoughtless words caused Xiao Yao to run away - having to daily endure the torture of being buried alive but never dying, a punishment that would continue as long as Xiao Yao was not found - a chilling reminder of the ruthlessness that Gao Xin Shao Hao had in him, something that is very much mellowed out in Lost You Forever. We get to learn more about the evildoings of Yu Jiang's brother Xuan Ting, before Cang Xuan finally dealt with him. We also meet Feng Long's father Shen Nong Yi, and see how he would end up governing Zhi Yi City and Ze Province, after Xuan Ting was put to death.
The translated Once Promised, that I read, was probably based on the earlier edition. There are not such epilogues about what you have mentioned (those in red text). I am aware of such partially from LYF
I thought he might have bought Xiao Yao's nonsense about the lovers bug properties regarding love and heartbreak being not quite as the Shaman King explained
If XY thinks that she fooled Jing then she doesn't know him very well and she overestimated her bullshiting ability. Does XY even buy her own nonsense? XY and Jing's reactions and interactions during this scene were *chef kiss; starting with XY's "guilt" when the name of the Lovers Bugs was revealed and her constant attempt to minimize each piece of information that the Shaman King revealed. Giving the vibe of "the lady doth protest too much, methinks". Plus, Jing's reaction when they encounter XL following this visit! In the subsequent years, their focus was completely opposite. XY continued to downplay the emotional connection of the Lovers Bugs while Jing was bothered by the life connection. To me, this showed that they both knew that what the Shaman King said was true. Not to mention, decades later and XY - blessed her bragging heart - couldn't find a way to undo the Lovers Bugs. Doesn't that prove what the Shaman King said ? These two jokers :-).
it can also be seen as him being resigned to the fact that Xiao Yao's heart was joined with Xiang Liu, something he has no way to change, and only cared that she survived when Xiang Liu dies in battle.
Yup, there was nothing that Jing could do about XY loving XL, so he has to accept. Early in the story he wants XY to not let another man into her heart and to for her to have him in her eyes, but after 37 years it was "even if I can just be a slave by your side". The other reason was that Jing #1 goal is to keep XY by his side. Partly because he "loves" her, but a big reason is that he needs her - his worth and sense of self are so tied up with her that he cannot exist without her. Her "death" in the first assassination attempt and his response showed that. I think once he woke up from that, he realised it as well. So XY loving XL is not the most important thing to Jing, what he needs is for her to be alive and be by his side. It speaks to a level of needs that is unhealthy.
I think she instinctively felt so, but she could never be sure because the lovers bug never responded, and Fangfeng Bei's behaviour seemed to be poles apart from Xiang Liu's.
When she placed her hand on FFB's chest and said "our hearts shared the same beat", this is obviously a called back to the scene after they planted the Lovers Bugs. You'd think that this would be a confirmation, but once again she asked him "Who are you"? She asked "Who are you?" three times, if I'm not mistaken. Sometimes I wonder if she continued to ask in the hope that he would say FFB instead of the reality - that he's XL. His response, "Who do you want me to be" could be read as "do you want me to be XL, or would you rather I just be FFB?". In the end, FFB is still XL and there is no escaping that reality.
I always wondered about her response to him, asking him to give up everything and she would follow him to roam the world.
I see his asking and her response as a genuine reflection of their inner desires/needs. The fact that XL said this suggested to me that he does want to be with XY. He does want to roam with her freely, experiencing all the things that life has to offer. And being able to roam freely is also what XY wanted as well, but she needs someone who is willing to give up everything for her - this is the thing that she could never let go off. Her answer pretty much let him knows that he could never meet the requirement, hence the same self-mocking laugh like the one outside the Dragon Bone Prison. Years later we have a similar conversation, but in reverse. When she asked him about what's out there beyond the sea and the wisfulness about being able to explore those islands. Only this time, he didn't even joke about taking her there to see them.
I always thought she planted the undergarment in the first place to ensure Yue Liang (in the drama, it was the other cousin Shi Ran) would be deterred from searching her bedchambers
I never considered this. It's possible, but I think given that it was late and she was preparting for bed, it's highly likely that she was not wearing her undergarment. If she is anything like me, bras are the first things to come off when I get home, let alone when I'm in my PJs :-).
Back in Qingshui town, and later on when she regained her true form, she would naturally sleep in his presence, on Furball, in his arms, in the seashell, which goes to show the level of trust she had in him.
She not only feels comfortable to fall asleep around him, she also sleep soundly and have sweet dreams. Her interactions with him (when they are not being mean to each other) are usually when she's most carefree and playful.
Tong Hua doesn't say anything, but given how naturally she laid down with him the first night, I doubt it would be any different. All those unanswered questions about the missing hours...
I need a fanfic. Where is windiaaa? I wonder if she managed to locate that fanfic yet.
Yeah, I have a hard time reconciling what I've heard of him in Once Promised and Daddy Emperor in LYF. They really don't seem like the same guy
The old Xuan Yuan king is another example, based on what little I have learnt about him in Once Promised. I think Lost You Forever has them in their twilight years, filled with regrets. The old Xuan Yuan king was pretty much alone, trying to atone for how he failed his family.
Yes, him too. I knew he was ruthless, but I was shocked when what he did with Tong and Ah Lei was revealed. He was a real piece of work and I had a hard time reconciling him with Granddaddy Emperor too.
I guess the problem I have with the change in both of them, is it hasn't been all that long since Once Promised. CX and XY are only a few hundreds of years old? Five hundred max. Daddy Emperor was still killing people ruthlessly, like those maids and his 5 brothers to keep the throne, in XY's lifetime. So, to me, the change seems sudden.
I share the same thought with you @Kokuto. These two men had been fighting for thousands of years to achieve the power that they yearned and desired. However, just within 300-400 years, they both fell regret and it seems that power did not matter for them anymore. And the change just suddently happened with XY's return.
The first part talks about initial plans for the drama in 2017, and how it fell through. It is surprising because Yang Zi said that she received an offer to play A Nian back in 2013 / 2014.
I read this on a Vietnamese fan blog. LYF was planned to be adapted in 2013 as a duo male-leads vehicle focusing on CX's raised to power with the two leads being CX and XL. The plan was to cast Hu Ge as CX and Wallace Huo as XL. Angelababy was rumoured to be XY. Hu Ge declined since he was planning on Nirvana In Fire, so the cast changed to Wallace Huo as CX and Yan Yi Kuan as XL. Props and sets were starting to be brought at Hengdian Studio; a Weibo post welcoming Wallace Huo to Hengdian to start filming was posted. However, before things could really get underway, there were rumours about cuts to the number of ancient series allowed to air. Investors got worried and pulled their investments and that was that.
The right to adapt the book changed hands 3 times and it took 4 go for it to get made. There were several changes in casting during the fourth time before filming began.
Lost You Forever was a project Jia Xing Media (Jay Walk Studio) initiated in 2017.
The female lead was set to be Dilraba Dilmurat, the second male lead was Zhang Binbin. The male lead was offered to Huang Xuan but it fell through before he accepted the role.
Of course, it would be Diliraba for XY since it was a Jaywalk production. Zhang Bin Bin as the second male lead? Do they mean Jing? He doesn't really fit the image of Jing, IMO. I can see Huang Xuan as CX.
I guess the problem I have with the change in both of them, is it hasn't been all that long since Once Promised.
I share the same thought with you @Kokuto. These two men had been fighting for thousands of years to achieve the power that they yearned and desired. However, just within 300-400 years, they both fell regret and it seems that power did not matter for them anymore. And the change just suddently happened with XY's return.
Ditto. Frankly, I think it was just plot expediency. The politics and war in LYF were weak-sauce - they are not meant to be the focus of the story anyway - as CX's journey was really just a prop for XY's romantic woes (IMO). Was it possible that these two ambitious, ruthless men mellowed out? Yes. Was it probable? Nah. And at the same time as well. Quite a bit of a stretch. I always find the ease with which Daddy Emperor handed over his Kingdom to CX to be laughable.
I have to agree. Poor Feng Long didn't deserve getting involved in her mess or his fate or a 'friend' like Jing. If Tong Hua wanted to make his life miserable, she should have married him to A Nian, and then both he and his wife could have been in love with CX and had their own angsty, not a tragedy ending.
Jing's treatment of Feng Long was another reason I found him to be a two-faced weasel. Nothing says an honorable gentleman than a man that stabbed his friend in the back several times.
In my headcanon, FL agreed to marry XY so that he could become family with his #1 love, CX. Can't marry your crush? Marry his "sister" instead :-).
15 years? Jing couldn't get his shit together in 15 lifetimes.
He literally had no strategy to resolve the issue. His strategy amounted to begging. Begging FFYY to break the engagement, begging his grandmother to allow him to break the engagement. Seriously? You made a promise to deliver something, but your plan to fulfil this promise was to beg other people to allow you to fulfil the promise. Yeah, OK!
Something occurred to me the other day. The issue was never FFYY, the issue was always Jing's grandmother. If there were no FFYY, there would be another woman. Whoever it may be, as long as his grandmother is around, it would never be XY because his grandmother does not want the Clan to become involved in politics so XY's identity as the daughter of one King and Granddaughter of another rendered her absolutely unsuitable. Do you think Jing could have guessed XY's real identity before it was revealed? It was possible, right? He moved in those circles and could have heard about the missing princess. And we kept on being told how brilliant he was. That would make the 15-year promise even more dastardly because Jing would be well aware of his grandmother's opposition to XY. If he wasn't then he was pretty darn stupid.
Even if he hadn't guessed beforehand, once her identity was confirmed he would have known it was close to impossible for Tushan Jing to marry that Grand Princess and yet, he thinks he needs to beTushan Jing to be a good match for her. Something isn't adding up. Was this man stupid or was he talking shit because he couldn't solve his family issue so using needing his identity as an excuse to stay put as Tushan Jing? In the same way that he was so filial and couldn't go against his grandmother, but went against her explicit wish of not getting involved with CX. I wonder how grandmother dearest would have reacted if she'd found out? Probably sent her to an even earlier grave. Filial indeed. So unless Jing was planning on taking out his grandmother, the likelihood of him fulfilling that 15-year promise was close to zero even if he didn't decide to take a nap for 37 years.
Nor would any sane woman give him the time of day, much less ANOTHER chance, cause the 15 Year Promise was not the first chance that Jing got, and he repeatedly FAILED, FAILED, and FAILED every chance you gave him.
Look, XY was well aware of the fact that Jing was "willing, but unable" aka incompetent af. She eventually had to sort out his problem for him. This wasn't even poor judgement anymore, this was straight-up dumbassery on her part. Otherwise known as desperation :-).
When your major criteria is not having another woman in the relationship, I again question XY's ability to calculate, by hooking her dreams and hopes on a guy who is engaged to a woman who has been living as his wife for the last ten years. Especially given that woman is a female assassin who clearly is far more effective and ruthless than Jing.
Desperation confirmed :-)
I'd forgotten this map from the drama! Of course I was probably looking at something else in this picture. heheh
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNjmG62XEAE3-mh?format=jpg&name=large
It looks very much like the other map we were looking at from the drama, but this one has more writing and roads? I'm wondering if Qing Shui Town is circled up there in the right? I need to see if I have a higher resolution pic.
Thank you for sharing! Yes that should be Qingshui Town, and below we see the gourd-shaped lake. I can decipher Five Deities Mountain and Gao Xin further below, Ying Province at the bottom right, and Bai Li Tribe at the bottom left, but the others are not very legible. Would be great if you can get a better resolution pic. Which episode is this from?
Thank you for sharing! Yes that should be Qingshui Town, and below we see the gourd-shaped lake. I can decipher Five Deities Mountain and Gao Xin further below, Ying Province at the bottom right, and Bai Li Tribe at the bottom left, but the others are not very legible. Would be great if you can get a better resolution pic. Which episode is this from?
I'm not sure which episode it is from. I actually don't recall seeing this scene -- I wonder if it is from season 2? But I've seen this pic before. Will check The Folder.
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