Love this song. I have the Peter Hollens version.AH :
I just listened to The Peter Hollens version and it's beautiful. The song first caught my attention years ago when my son was just a baby and we were listening to a "Family Folk Songs Radio" station I created on Pandora. I don't know the artist, but it was a woman with an ethereal voice singing in a Scottish accent. I was surprised when I looked up the lyrics and discovered the deeper meaning. I also heard and really enjoyed the Irish version of this song, "Red is the Rose," on the same station. Now, my daughter and I like to sing "Loch Lomond" while strumming on the ukulele.
And if XL's ruse (where he pretended to be Gong Gong in the final battle) succeeded in saving Gong Gong's life, then that is a little bit simliar to how Robert saved a younger fellow Jacobite (the one who will take the high road back to Scotland, alive) by volunteering to be executed in his place.
I read the same backstory on the song that you read, but I didn't notice the parallel between Robert saving a fellow Jacobite and Xiang Liu saving Gong Gong. Thanks for pointing this out. It connects the main chorus of the song to the events in "Lost You Forever."
Though Janet may one day cease grieving for Robert, her heart will never know a second spring like its first. The same goes for XY.
And though Scotland may one day cease grieving all that was lost in the war and its aftermath (including the utter decimation of highland culture, the deaths of many, many highlanders, and snuffing out of Scotland's last shot at true independence), it will never truly be free again and the old highland culture will never fully return to its previous heights (i.e., like Janet's heart, it will not know a second spring again). The same goes for the Kingdom of Shengnong.
Another parallel I didn't notice until reading your analysis of the song is the double entendre in the last two lines. One meaning references the personal loss for a surviving lover, while the other references the loss to an entire nation and culture. "Lost You Forever" is full of double entendres, so this parallel might be considered a parallel in itself. Thanks for sharing the poignant analysis; it made me see these verses in a new light.
IMO, they indicate that although the tears / grieving of the broken heart may come to an end, that heart will never see a second spring... as in, that heart had a great love / spring once, and it will not see such a love / spring again. To me that doesn't necessarily mean that the heart will never heal. It just means that the great love / spring that was lost was unique and irreplaceable. So the broken heart will never again know a second love that could be called a "spring" like that unique and irreplaceable lost love.
I didn't spend much time analyzing the verses, just translating their literal meaning. I agree with your interpretation; it was beautifully put.
The song even features the moon coming out at twilight.
This is another of my favorite verses from the song.
And the moon coming out in the gloaming.
The song's references to Mount Lomond and mountainous terrain, using words like “braes” and “glen,” might serve as another parallel to "Lost You Forever" since the Shen Nong Remnant Army's base was in the mountains.
By yon bonnie banks, and by yon bonnie braes,
...
'Twas then that we parted, in yon shady glen,
On the steep, steep side o' Ben Lomond
Another parallel I didn't notice until reading your analysis of the song is the double entendre in the last two lines. One meaning references the personal loss for a surviving lover, while the other references the loss to an entire nation and culture.solarlunareclipse:
Credit to Dr. King for this one. ^^
He pointed out, "It is a lament too for the Highland culture crushed by the Sassenachs after Culloden in the bloody aftermath of the battle and then the devastating Highland Clearances."
I agree with your interpretation; it was beautifully put.
Thank you!
The song's references to Mount Lomond and mountainous terrain, using words like “braes” and “glen,” might serve as another parallel to the Shen Nong Resistance Army's base in the mountains.
True. On the occasions when XY and XL meet somewhere other than by a body of water, they usually meet on or by the side of a mountain.
Kokuto:
So, someone posted the image of child Xiang Liu and adult Xiang Liu on twitter.
https://x.com/peachyturtle/status/1794050010394558708
And I notice that Kid XL has a huge scar on his face, which of course, XL doesn't have. So, do you think he found a way to heal his scars? Can he shapeshift his scars away? Or do you think he actually is pulling a Thandruil and has a scarred face that he hides behind a glamour?
Also, in this pic it looks like Kid XL might have gray hair ... but it's really dirty.
It said "link not found" .
So, someone posted the image of child Xiang Liu and adult Xiang Liu on twitter.
https://x.com/peachyturtle/status/1794050010394558708
And I notice that Kid XL has a huge scar on his face, which of course, XL doesn't have. So, do you think he found a way to heal his scars? Can he shapeshift his scars away? Or do you think he actually is pulling a Thandruil and has a scarred face that he hides behind a glamour?
Also, in this pic it looks like Kid XL might have gray hair ... but it's really dirty.
I definitely don’t think XL still has a scar that he hides with magic. That would totally go against his clear preference (which matches XY’s preference) to maintain his true face when possible without using magic to disguise himself. Hence why he uses a mask in front of CX instead of transforming, dyes his hair when he is FFB instead of transforming, and only transforms when he doesn’t have an alternative option.
It’s mentioned in the novel that deities (and presumably also demons) don’t normally scar permanently. The only reason TSJ has permanent scars is that his brother intentionally used methods (a special kind of water if I remember correctly?) so that he wouldn’t heal properly. So even if XL had very bad wounds that initially scarred when he was young, they should have healed over time even without intervention. And after he escaped, Gong Gong taught XL special methods for self-healing so that presumably would have sped up the healing process for any remaining scars + any new scars he got when he was nearly killed by the whirlpool before Gong Gong saved him.
HeadInTheClouds:
It said "link not found" .
Instead of clicking on the link, copy it exactly as it appears in Kokuto’s comment (make sure that no % were added when you copied it) and then paste + follow it. That fixed the issue for me.
This part always breaks my heart. She wanted to say something, but didn't know what, so she ends up saying that awful line. And instead of taking it lightly and mocking her as she expects, XL doesn't answer at all. And that apparent silent agreement or acceptance is just devastating.
Why are things not the same as they were before? Because Cang Xuan is emperor now? Or because she is engaged to Feng Long? Since XY told XL earlier in the chapter that she wanted to remove the Lovers Bugs and that she would stop making poisons for him once she was married, I feel like the change she is referring to is her engagement. Although the fact that she expected him to mock her about Cang Xuan makes me think that she might also be referring to Cang Xuan taking the throne too.
So sorry for the very delayed response - life has been extremely hectic and exhausting these past few weeks!
I am not as sure that it had to do with her engagement, but more who is now in power in the Central Plains. In the past, despite the fact that the Central Plains was a part of Xuan Yuan, the loyalty of the major clans and families were still on the fence when it came to the Shen Nong resistance army. While not openly supporting the resistance army, they would not help the Xuan Yuan king and go against them either. On the other hand, Cang Xuan has the full support of the Six Great Clans of the Central Plains, in addition to the Four Noble Families, and the powerful Fanglei clan which was restored to prominence through his marriage alliance. The loyalty of the Central Plains towards the new king was far greater and unreserved compared to the reign of his grandfather. As such, traveling to the Central Plains would prove far more dangerous for Xiang Liu compared to before, when he could rely on the Central Plains clans in terms of support (passive or otherwise) for the resistance army.
There is also an interesting parallel here with Qingshui Town, after Xiao Liu realises who Xuan really is:
Sometimes Xiao Liu would earnestly warn him, “Xiang Liu wants to kill you. Even if he can’t send soldiers to Qingshui Town, the Shen Nong resistance army is based near here for the past hundreds of years. You really should leave soon.”
-- Vol 1 Ch6
Xiao Liu pressed, “You hurry up and leave town. Xiang Liu can show up anytime.”
-- Vol 1 Ch7
Xiao Yao fell silent for a while, then casually said, “Jing knows you are Xiang Liu now. He won’t tell my Gege, but if Feng Long finds out, Gege will definitely know. You... be careful.”
:
Xiao Yao kept feeling that there were things she wanted to say, but when she tried to think it through, she could not tell what it was. She said, “Things are no longer the same as before. It is best for you to come to the Central Plains less often.”
-- Vol 2 Ch12 (Chapter 29)
Back in Qingshui Town, Cang Xuan was in the territory of Shen Nong resistance army, and thus he was the one at risk. During that time, she kept urging Cang Xuan to leave, even though he was the gege she missed so terribly, and every moment she spent with him was precious, as she slowly counted down to his departure.
Now the situation is reversed. The Central Plains now belongs to Cang Xuan, and they have thrown their support behind the new king. The fact that Cang Xuan would most probably find out Fangfeng Bei's real identity, means that Xiang Liu no longer has the luxury of moving freely in those circles whenever he came to the Central Plains. So while she felt keenly that their time together was becoming lesser and lesser with each passing day, she would rather she saw less of him than have him risk his life despite her very obvious reluctance for them to part.
To me, her keen awareness of the very clear shift in power balance would also be instrumental in her decision down the road, prompting the creation of the crystal globe one or two years later that embodied her appeal to him to let her be a part of his life.
XL pushed XY away in chapter 22, chapter 24, and chapter 32.
I feel that the scene outside the gambling den was one of closest times Xiang Liu actually involuntarily revealed how much he loved her, just as she did with her fervent wish to have been the one to save him. In that moment, I am hard pressed to believe that Xiao Yao could not have understood what he felt for her, until he shuttered by donning the unapproachable armour, a show he put on as much for her as for the man tailing behind her:
Xiao Yao watched his departing figure and suddenly thought that when Xiang Liu escaped the slave death match arena about five or six hundred years ago, he ought to have been a young man just like him. He might have appeared to have experienced so much trials and tribulations in life, worn out and weary, but in reality, he was like a newborn baby, and the kind of people he encountered would determine the course of his life.
But….she was not even born yet back then!
Bei snapped his fingers near her ear. “He has long gone, why are you still lost in thought? Let’s go!”
As she walked, Xiao Yao said, “I was thinking how good it would have been had I been the one who saved you when you escaped the death match arena! If that were the case, I would have let you only be Fangfeng Bei! I really wish I could have been born a few hundred years earlier, I would definitely have gone to the death match arena to find you…”
Bei stopped and stared at Xiao Yao.
Xiao Yao turned to look at him. Their eyes were shrouded in deep shadows as they held back words that sprung to their lips.
Bei reached out his hand as if to caress Xiao Yao’s cheek but the moment he touched her, he jerked his hand back abruptly. He glanced behind Xiao Yao then sneered disdainfully, “You think you can save me the way you are? Are you worthy?”
Xiao Yao quietly tried to explain, “I’m not saying Lord Hong Jiang is not good, I just, I just feel…..”
“Be quiet!” Suddenly, Bei seemed to be clad in armour, radiating a deadly aura.
Xiao Yao stared warily at Xiang Liu and slowly retreated.
She backed into a familiar embrace. “Jing?”
-- Vol 2 Ch6 (Chapter 23)
He also pushes her away in chapter 29, but she pushes him away too. Even though, IMO, it was clear that she didn't actually want to push him away. I don't think she was happy when he congratulated her on her engagement. And when she told him about no longer sending him poisons when she was married and wanting to remove the lovers bugs, that seemed like an earlier version of the message she sent with the ice crystal ball: if you don't say or do anything now, our current relationship will end and our current ties will be broken. And then they have their final conversation in chapter 29 that ends with XY saying that line and then waiting, but not knowing exactly what she was waiting for.
I agree. The conversation in Chapter 29 was pregnant with so many leading questions, but Xiang Liu refused to rise to the bait and respond in the way she hoped. When she mentioned the name of the lovers bug, saying that it is not suitable to be used by them, there is an unspoken hope that he would refute her words, which he clearly did not. When he pulled her hand, she hoped he would say something more, but slumped in disappointment when all he said was to have dinner with him. When she asked if one cannot forget a person for a lifetime, he diverted the person back to Jing. Later, when she asked him whether she should not marry Feng Long, once again, he refused to say what he truly thought, to the point where she mocked herself for hoping she mattered to him in some way.
It is also interesting that this is one of the rare times when the leaked script added lines that hinted far more than what the novel did. And while I dislike the way they changed the sequence or details of these two scenes, Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu's mindset during this time is described more :
Xiao Yao silently took off her dog face mask as did Fangfeng Bei.
Xiao Yao asked, “You already know I’m engaged?”
“It is hard not to be aware such sensational news even if one doesn’t want to know! Oh, I forgot to congratulate you. Congratulations!”
Xiao Yao silently stared at Fangfeng Bei for a few moments before shaking her head with a smile. “I need to discuss two things with you.”
Fangfeng Bei tossed his mask playfully. “Tell me.”
“The first is making poisons for you. I can still do it now but after….I’m married I will no longer help you make poisons.”
Fangfeng Bei caught the mask and smiled at Xiao Yao, “And the second?”
“I want to remove the poisonous bug linking us. When she was still alive, the late Tushan Madam kept a shaman from the Bai Li tribe. The shaman said that…….our poisonous bug seems to be the legendary Lover’s Bug. As the name suggests, the poisonous bug is used by lovers…..and you and I…..it’s not suitable!” Xiao Yao laughed self-deprecatingly. “You were already very annoyed by the poisonous bug last time, so I was thinking… when you are free, please go with me to Bai Li and ask the Shaman King to remove the bug.”
Fangfeng Bei stared at Xiao Yao and under the dim light of the gambling den, there was a hint of coldness in the smile on his lips.
Xiao Yao added, “Even if the bug is removed, what I promised in the past still stands.”
Xiang Liu coolly said, “Fine, wait until I have time.”
The two of them walked out of the corridor in silence. Xiao Yao handed her mask to the guards before exiting the dark building with Fangfeng Bei.
In the streets, the moonlight was already shining on the willow branches and the lanterns were lit.
Xiao Yao forced a smile and said to Fangfeng Bei, “I’ll keep sending poisons every three months. I’m off now.”
Fangfeng Bei grabbed Xiao Yao’s arm. She did not look back but also did not pull out of his grasp. Her body was tense as she quietly waited.
After a long while, Fangfeng Bei said, “Have dinner with me.”
Xiao Yao’s entire body slumped and she shook her head with a smile, refusing, “I don’t have time!”
Fangfeng Bei said, “You best not turn down what a certain person has decided to do.”
“You’re Fangfeng Bei right now!”
“All that stuff you just said, who was it meant for?”
“I…..” Xiao Yao took a deep breath. “Fine, General Xiang Liu!”
-- Vol 2 Ch12 (Chapter 29)
XY: You know that I am already engaged?
FFB: It would be difficult not to know of Chishui clan leader and Gao Xin princess' engagement even if one doesn't wish to! Oh, I forgot to offer my congratulations. (insincerely) Congratulations!
XY: Is there nothing else you wish to say to me apart from congratulations?
FFB: What do you wish to hear?
They looked at each other, their gazes probing, but neither would take the first step. Xiao Yao averted her eyes in disappointment, then shook her head and laughed.
-- leaked script S2 Ep2 scenes 21-25
Xiao Yao softly asked, “Bei, tell me... why is it so difficult to find someone to journey together with?”
Fangfeng Bei said, “It is not difficult to find someone to journey with. Finding someone with the same aspirations and interests, with whom you can genuinely treat each other well, and make the journey meaningful, that is what is difficult.”
Xiao Yao asked, “Can one really be unable to forget a person for the whole of one’s life?”
“It depends on the person. If the person you are referring to is Jing, I think it is possible.”
“Are you saying that he can’t forget me, or I can’t forget him?”
Fangfeng Bei smiled. “It is up to your own interpretation.”
Xiao Yao furrowed her brows and sullenly said, “There are a lot of good men left in the Great Wilderness!”
“There are many good men, but I fear there are only a few who will put you in their hearts.”
“What do you mean? So I shouldn’t marry Feng Long?”
“I don't mean anything by it. You asked, so I just gave you my honest opinion.”
“Xiang Liu, I really can’t tell what your heart is really thinking.”
“You and I are passers-by in the mortal realm. Whenever we meet, we are merely each other’s companions to seek out pleasure! Why should you care what I think deep inside?”
Xiao Yao laughed in self-deprecation, “Yes, I am overthinking it! No matter what you are pondering in your heart, it has nothing to do with me anyway!”
Xiang Liu gazed at the end of the long dark street and said nothing.
-- Vol 2 Ch12 (Chapter 29)
XY: What do you mean? Are you saying I shouldn't marry Feng Long?
FFB: I don't mean anything by it. You asked, so I just gave you my honest opinion.
XY: Whom should I marry if not Feng Long?
Fangfeng Bei raised his eyebrows, a playful look on his face.
FFB: You ask me, whom should I ask?
XY (angrily): In any case, no matter whom I marry, that person must not be married, nor an enemy of my brother.
Fangfeng Bei continued to grin, showing no signs of joy or anger.
:
FFB (smiled and stopped walking): I can only see you off here. Ahead... is your world.
Xiao Yao looked at the happily playing noblewomen and stood there, not moving. Xin Yue ignored Fangfeng Bei and called Xiao Yao to join them.
Xiao Yao hesitated and looked back at Fangfeng Bei but he had already turned to leave. She looked at his departing figure in loss and sadness and opened her mouth, but ultimately did not call out.
A Nian ran over.
AN: Sister, what are you looking at? I called you several times but you ignored me.
XY (sadly): Nothing. Just a passerby who occasionally kept me company in this world. Ultimately he wasn't someone who can travel with me all the way after all.
-- leaked script S2 Ep2-3
The line highlighted in green is interesting because of its double innuendo.
不管你心里琢磨什么，反正都和我无关！
No matter what you are pondering in your heart, it has nothing to do with me anyway!
The words 反正都和我无关 can be seen in two ways:
The obvious interpretation is "I don't care whatever it is you are pondering in your heart."
However, the fact that she said so self-deprecatingly, indicates that the second interpretation makes more sense:
"Whatever it is you are pondering, I am clearly not a part of it."
which is heartbreaking for her to say, and for him to hear, even if she masks it with bravado.
There is also an interesting parallel here with Qingshui Town, after Xiao Liu realises who Xuan really is:liddi:
Sometimes Xiao Liu would earnestly warn him, “Xiang Liu wants to kill you. Even if he can’t send soldiers to Qingshui Town, the Shen Nong resistance army is based near here for the past hundreds of years. You really should leave soon.”
-- Vol 1 Ch6
Xiao Liu pressed, “You hurry up and leave town. Xiang Liu can show up anytime.”
-- Vol 1 Ch7
Xiao Yao fell silent for a while, then casually said, “Jing knows you are Xiang Liu now. He won’t tell my Gege, but if Feng Long finds out, Gege will definitely know. You... be careful.”
:
Xiao Yao kept feeling that there were things she wanted to say, but when she tried to think it through, she could not tell what it was. She said, “Things are no longer the same as before. It is best for you to come to the Central Plains less often.”
-- Vol 2 Ch12 (Chapter 29)
Back in Qingshui Town, Cang Xuan was in the territory of Shen Nong resistance army, and thus he was the one at risk. During that time, she kept urging Cang Xuan to leave, even though he was the gege she missed so terribly, and every moment she spent with him was precious, as she slowly counted down to his departure.
Great observation! I hadn't noticed that parallel before. It seems even more obvious when taking XY's words in chapter 35 into account, as well as her thoughts in chapter 38.
-----
Chapter 35:
She stared at Xiang Liu and the man before her was that dissolute wastrel, but the moment she was about to become torn again, a strand of white hair fell that reminded her exactly who he was. Xiao Yao softly stroked his hair and said, “This place is not safe to stay. Pay your respects and hurry off!”
-----
Chapter 38:
Xiao Yao was silent before asking, “Did you come to Zhi Yi just to see Jing? When are you leaving?”
“If you didn’t stop me then I would have left already.”
Xiao Yao suddenly realized that she was still holding on tightly to Xiang Liu’s arm and she quickly let go.
“Where’s Jing? Still in the gambling den?”
Xiang Liu smirked and looked down the long corridor. “He’s been behind you this whole time.”
Jing walked forward and took Xiao Yao’s hand in his hand.
Xiao Yao wanted to warn Xiang Liu to be careful and leave as soon as possible but now she couldn’t say those words so remained silent.
XY: You know that I am already engaged?
FFB: It would be difficult not to know of Chishui clan leader and Gao Xin princess' engagement even if one doesn't wish to! Oh, I forgot to offer my congratulations. (insincerely) Congratulations!
XY: Is there nothing else you wish to say to me apart from congratulations?
FFB: What do you wish to hear?
They looked at each other, their gazes probing, but neither would take the first step. Xiao Yao averted her eyes in disappointment, then shook her head and laughed.
FFB (smiled and stopped walking): I can only see you off here. Ahead... is your world.
AN: Sister, what are you looking at? I called you several times but you ignored me.
XY (sadly): Nothing. Just a passerby who occasionally kept me company in this world. Ultimately he wasn't someone who can travel with me all the way after all.
</3
-- Vol 2 Ch6 (Chapter 26)
-- Vol 2 Ch12 (Chapter 29)
-- leaked script S2 Ep2 scenes 21-25
-- leaked script S2 Ep2-3
Thanks for sharing your translations liddi! ^^
Tong Hua and Wang Jing are nominated for the Shanghai Television Award for Best Adapted Screenplay for Lost You Forever. I believe this is one of the big awards, and they usually don't recognize costume dramas, so great recognition of Tong Hua's talents.
The annual Magnolia Awards 白玉兰奖 of the Shanghai TV Festival is considered to be one of the most prestigious TV awards so it is definitely a great honour. Lost You Forever is nominated in 3 categories - Best Adapted Screenplay (Tong Hua, Wang Jing), Best Actress (Yang Zi) and Best Art Direction. Fingers crossed we get good news!
The annual Magnolia Awards 白玉兰奖 of the Shanghai TV Festival is considered to be one of the most prestigious TV awards so it is definitely a great honour. Lost You Forever is nominated in 3 categories - Best Adapted Screenplay (Tong Hua, Wang Jing), Best Actress (Yang Zi) and Best Art Direction. Fingers crossed we get good news!
I thought it was one of the big ones, so glad to hear it. Tong Hua and Wang Jing are up against Blossoms Shanghai writers, and I think that's going to be a tough one to beat, but getting nominated at all is still a big deal.
Fake It Till You Make It, Mysterious Lotus Casebook, and 13 Years of Dust are the other nominees in that category.
Glad to see the other nominations for LYF too. I'm sure Yang Zi fans are very very happy now.
Here's a link to their website and all the nominees.
https://www.stvf.com/content?aid=101240530191121565941966009798661338
Tong Hua and Wang Jing are nominated for the Shanghai Television Award for Best Adapted Screenplay for Lost You Forever. I believe this is one of the big awards, and they usually don't recognize costume dramas, so great recognition of Tong Hua's talents.
ahh...maybe I'm a real hater...but LYF is mediocre at best as a screenplay (ಥ﹏ಥ), so this is a real surprise! But Blossoms Shanghai, I am still waiting to get a chance to watch it.
Tong Hua and Wang Jing are up against Blossoms Shanghai writers, and I think that's going to be a tough one to beat, but getting nominated is still a big deal.
Yes all the nominations are up against stiff competition this year. Blossoms Shanghai is definitely one of them. Yang Zi is up against Zhou Xun (Imperfect Victim) and Tang Yan (Blossoms Shanghai) in Best Actress category, while Art Direction contenders include Blossoms Shanghai and War of Faith. Either way, it is cherry on the cake if they win, and still a great honour just being nominated.
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