I’d like to share my 2 cents on Do San’s character though, I think ALOT of people have been misjudging his character as they kept putting him side-to-side to Ji Pyeong (which by far and wide is a much more well-written character).
A disclaimer to be made though! I’ve always been a NJH fan, so it’d be a lie to say that I was completely unbiased in my favour towards Do San. But nevertheless, I’ll be analysing NDS as a character and as the way the writer has wrote him to be- free from my NJH biases (i’ll try! Haha)
Even though I really loved ep 1’s prologue on Ji Pyeong’s character and the way they delivered it, I felt no connection to it and felt like it was all -too familiar (typical kdrama sad childhood story) . (note: I LOVED it but I just couldn’t personally relate to it).
However, when we were first introduced to Do San...I was really drawn to his character. I loved his quirks, his socially ineptness, his love for knitting, his dorkiness, his awkwardness, and just the way he’s always clear on what he wants despite not knowing how to get there and being incredibly stupid at times haha etc. I also loved how when Ji Pyeong insulted him (so so badly), he took it well and he took it as a motivation to improve SamSan Tech (and he actually listened to his advice on not being a CEO). So I had NO IDEA why so many people hated NDS from the get-go. He was charming and watching him cross paths with our (seemingly) protagonists made me feel like there was LOADS of potential to see his character grow and I was like rooting for this underdog exploring the winds of life. (As compared to Ji Pyeong who already had a quite well-defined character arc due to the established backstory in ep1).
But to my disappointment, his character kept falling more and more flat as his love for Dal-Mi grew. It felt sweet at first, but slowly it felt super clingy, lowkey toxic...and also super out-of-character? It’s not the fact that he fell in love with Dal-Mi so quickly that’s the issue though, it’s the inconsistency in NDS’s character. At times, the DoSan I was drawn to shines really brightly and the interactions with DalMi was just pure sweetness! Like when he held hands w her in the bus, or the starry night field after the beach scene, or even the crying scene in the bus station when he recognised how he has hurt her- those scenes were great. It was consistent w NDS’s character of being stupid but still willing to learn from his mistakes. Especially on how he drew parallels with his “cheating” in the math exam and how he chanced upon Dal-Mi- that was just *amazing* writing and character development as he struggles with the identity people projects him to be and his true self whom he knows will be a disappointment to everyone. Those were really heart-wrenching scenes that made me treasure NDS as a character so much more (that’s why ep9 was really good imo)
But then there were extremely contradicting scenes that...felt super out of place...that undo-ed all of the great development that was built in NDS’s character. Like when he stalked her to the pub, or when he raged against JiPyeong (like in ep6 he said he does not easily gets angry????), or when he get jealous about JiPyeong... and just the little things he do for Dal-Mi. It made him look super immature and petty...also super cringey and toxic. Felt like that was just filler scenes to help make Dal-Mi and Ji Pyeong shine brighter (cause we get to see how much more mature the other two are at handling things). It would’ve been fine had they flesh out more on how he is having insecurity issues with his identity and that’s why he’s putting Dal Mi on the pedestal. But No... that’s not what they’re doing? They are glamorising his obsessive/childish actions and they are expecting us to like him more?
I hope these character-issues w NDS will be resolved in the remaining episodes... bcs NDS is a really unique character with LOADS of potential. His strength as a character is how he is so innocent and unassuming of people, incredibly stupid but so willing to learn- So idk why they are making him out to be this clingy, toxic guy. A total reverse from the NDS we were introduced to... :/ and I’m sure NJH has the calibre to act it out— don’t sleep on his talent yalls!!
Kristances:Those were really heart-wrenching scenes that made me treasure NDS as a character so much more (that’s why ep9 was really good imo)
It is very unfortunate that in my opinion episode 9 was the beginning of the destruction of the NDS characters and the storyline in this drama.
In episode 9, how can you explain NDS who suddenly wakes up and is fully conscious while only sleeping for a while after being drunk so badly. Which even had to be carried from the car to the bed. And join the dinner.
Because of this scene, NDS can see what SDM has written in the app review, and can rent a car to go on a date the next day. This is a scene that is so forced that it ends up ruining everything.
Kristances:I really enjoyed reading your analysis! It’s really objective and you get to the point on what the writer is trying to convey instead of forcing your own fantasies and speculations into your analysis (like some JiPeyong or DoSan shippers -_-). Thank you for treating Start-Up as a piece of art with good writing instead of mere ship wars!! Lohv it
Thank you for reading and joining the conversation. Indeed, i think that regardless of who you ship, the characters have been written very beautifully. I think my only disappointment is that the female characters aren't getting much love, let alone complexity, from the writer.
In fact, i would've expected by now to have gotten more sismance or at least more heart-felt scenes between the sisters. In Jae especially has been treated as little more than an adversary for Samsan Tech. Which is sad because her own journey has the potential of being not only interesting, but empowering as well. Sadly female empowerment is a very rare thing in K-Dramas.
Hopefully we will at least get some bonding scenes between the female chatacters in next episode.
Kristances:However, when we were first introduced to Do San...I was really drawn to his character. I loved his quirks, his socially ineptness, his love for knitting, his dorkiness, his awkwardness, and just the way he’s always clear on what he wants despite not knowing how to get there and being incredibly stupid at times haha etc. I also loved how when Ji Pyeong insulted him (so so badly), he took it well and he took it as a motivation to improve SamSan Tech (and he actually listened to his advice on not being a CEO). So I had NO IDEA why so many people hated NDS from the get-go.
Apologies in advance, I didn't see this post when I wrote my earlier reply!
I didn't know NDS was hated at the start? Like you, I really like him and his more "human" portrayal of a man who can't seem to find his place. K-Dramas tend to give us male leads who are already successful and/or have amazing skills, so NDS came across as a breath of fresh air.
Kristances:But to my disappointment, his character kept falling more and more flat as his love for Dal-Mi grew. It felt sweet at first, but slowly it felt super clingy, lowkey toxic...and also super out-of-character? It’s not the fact that he fell in love with Dal-Mi so quickly that’s the issue though, it’s the inconsistency in NDS’s character.
I agree with this entirely; especially the toxic part.
I think NDS actually de-evolved when he started to pursue (quite aggressively) SDM. Perhaps that's why I see his "love" for her as more of an infatuation. After all, infatuation is when you first see someone that you are attracted to (which when NDS saw SDM he seemed surprised by her beauty after all) and immediately feel there is a connection based on that.
If you think about it, his relationship with Dal Mi was never about getting to know her or having her know him. Not really, otherwise, the lie would've been impossible to maintain. Instead, it felt like he wanted her because she made him feel special. And it was trying to become someone who would fit the idea she had of Do-San which ultimately took him over (in an obsessive sort of way) and broke him; leading to what is certainly an identity crisis.
So his inconsistency/departure with who we met at the start may very well be intended as showing that identity crisis. This is why I don't like him as a love interest for Dal-Mi. His dishonesty is as strong with her as with his own sense of self.
Kristances:Felt like that was just filler scenes to help make Dal-Mi and Ji Pyeong shine brighter (cause we get to see how much more mature the other two are at handling things). It would’ve been fine had they flesh out more on how he is having insecurity issues with his identity and that’s why he’s putting Dal Mi on the pedestal. But No... that’s not what they’re doing? They are glamorising his obsessive/childish actions and they are expecting us to like him more?
I think the three-year time skip will be introduced precisely to alleviate this point. NDS will most probably come back feeling a lot more like the guy we were introduced to during the first few episodes but with more confidence. The only problem with this is that his growth would've happened off-screen (this is assuming he won't come back the same).
Why they decided to not have him grow as soon as SDM learned about the lie; or rather, why he didn't start to become more conscious of the internal toll lying should've taken on him, is beyond me.
During my first post, I talked about the similarities to "She was Pretty", down to a very similar lie that took more than half the episodes to unravel. The difference there was that we saw the toll lying took on the 2FL. She stopped eating, got sick with the constant stress, and simply couldn't be as happy as she wanted. I wished the same had been the case with NDS, but for some mysterious reason, I haven't really seen him truly contrite save for that brief scene where he cried.
But his actions after that scene have nullified that "regret".
Ismail Bergitar:Because of this scene, NDS can see what SDM has written in the app review, and can rent a car to go on a date the next day. This is a scene that is so forced that it ends up ruining everything.
Ah, good thing you mentioned this. This is just another example of the many handicaps NSD has gotten when it comes to SDM. Even his date, which seemed to have really touched SDM, was an idea he took off of the review she read that night. It, once again, felt like he was cheating in a way. It was the same impression I got when he eavesdropped on her private conversation with the random bar girl in order to check what she was feeling after SDM learned the truth.
Love your analysis! Can't wait for your thoughts on the coming episodes. I agree with your thoughts on everything and what most of the commenters have said. I am very dismayed by how little time HJP has received in the last couple of episodes as I keep expecting them to even out the times, but it seems like NDS and SDM's puppy love romance scenes keeps taking precedence over sensible development of any of the characters or relationships. It would be incredibly disappointing in terms of the message if NDS/SDM get together, at least in the current state, because it doesn't seem like love, just an infatuation on NDS' part. The cheating is a very relevant point because that's a bit part of his backstory, that he cheated and felt like a fraud ever since and it impacts his self esteem. But in the NDS/SDM romance as it is set up now, all it seems is like him cheating to chase a love that was never for him. I dont understand how it is a good message to contort yourself into someone else so you can be loved and I hope this drama changes tracks soon.
ilunasya:I hope this drama changes tracks soon.
I'm sure the production team has prepared several options for the ending. I saw this after finding some differences between the eps 13 and eps 13 previews after they aired:
- SDM's expression while watching the vlog, in the preview the expression is sad, while in eps 13 the expression is happy.
- In the preview there is an NDS in his room holding a ball. But there is no this scene in eps 13.
- In the preview there is a scene of NDS asking HJP: "Do I need your permission to meet Dalmi, Mr Han?" and answered by Mr Han: "I think I have the right". This conversation was eliminated.
Judging from this difference, it means that how the drama runs really depends on them, not on the quality of the drama that has been prepared carefully from the start.
ilunasya:It would be incredibly disappointing in terms of the message if NDS/SDM get together, at least in the current state, because it doesn't seem like love, just an infatuation on NDS' part.
I agree about how problematic and frustrating it will be if the endgame is indeed NDS x SDM, especially because the episodes this week continue to push at some problematic themes. I also agree that their love seems more of an infatuation than anything positive, but I have a feeling that the writer may not even know what she's doing anymore.
ilunasya:Love your analysis! Can't wait for your thoughts on the coming episodes.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed them. I have edited the first post with my thoughts on episode 13. I'm going to head out, but I'll add my thoughts of episode 14 later today.
Ismail Bergitar:I saw this after finding some differences between the eps 13 and eps 13 previews after they aired:
Usually, it seems that the preview every two episodes (when we have to wait a week for the next episode) contains teasers for both episodes, so I kind of expected that the scenes that were left out would be included in today's episode. :/
I've now added my thoughts on episode 13 and I'll add my thoughts on episode 14 later. Let's just say, I'm starting to feel disappointed in this drama and it's becoming a chore to even watch it anymore. Thankfully, it ends next week. We'll see if my rating for it drops even lower than it already has.
There is apparently a limit to how many things one can post, lol. So here's my analysis of episode 14 instead!
Episode 14
I actually enjoyed this episode a lot more than the last one and that's because we got to see a bit more about In Jae.
>> Won Seo In Jae <<
If there is one complaint I have about In Jae this episode is that she wasn't given as much air time as she should. I still lament how underutilized she was, especially because at the start of the drama I'd hope the focus would be on her and Seo Dal Mi rather than Do-San and Ji Pyung, but alas it was not so!
Having said that, In Jae had the best scene in the episode when she meets grandma at the park, kind of echoing (in a more diluted way) Ji Pyeong's x Grandma's scene.
Now... WHY did nobody (*cough* Dal Me *cough*) think to tell In Jae about the problems grandma was facing is beyond me! It really shows how little love and attention to detail the writer has given to her female characters, which by itself is quite a shame.
Was I the only one hoping Grandma would recognize In Jae, btw?
Of course, that was not the only time this episode where In Jae shined. I really liked that she called out Dal Mi when she inconsiderately dissed her company and showed embarrassment at her advice to recruit Do-San.
Even better, we got to see their Grandma and their Mother called out Dal Mi's out of character's behavior. This leads me to talk about our Female Lead...
>> Seo Dal Mi <<
While I'm a fan of characters changing due to circumstances, I can't say I'm a fan of Dal Mi's regression. It was as interesting as it was frustrating to see her mirror pre-time skin Do San.
- As soon as Do San returned, she felt like she was below him and acted as such; losing the confidence that had been a core component of her character.
- Suddenly her accomplishments seem little in comparison to his.
To make matters worse, the author continues to showcase Dal-Mi's inability to decide between Do San and Ji Pyung, which wouldn't be so frustrating if...
- a) it didn't take such a big part of the plot and
- b) it wasn't so late in the story.
I can understand being indecisive at the start, but this is towards the end.
This scene takes place after the elevator scene where HJP stopped NDS from going to look for SDM. I just want to say I really appreciated HJP's honesty, but it also marks his hesitation in taking a chance. | Right after that phone conversation, we see NDS calling SDM, but she actively refuses to take his call. But rather than get the feeling that she's choosing HJP, it may be that she's refusing to accept her feelings for NDS. |
But how are we to interpret these two scenes except as Dal Mi's indecisiveness? I once again want to stress my frustration at how Dal Mi has lost confidence in herself. I get she feels like a loser at that moment, but if she was indeed interested romantically in Do San... wouldn't she want his support now of all times? The fact that she was so comfortable with HJP earlier in the scene is also throwing me off. Because it shows that she doesn't have to pretend to be okay when she's with HJP, while since he's been back, she's been pretending to be okay in front of Do San. That dishonesty reminds me of pre-time skip Do San. So, if they are indeed the end game, I feel the message of "pretend" rather than "show/embrace your true self" is extremely problematic.This brings me to talk about another visual cue which happened prior to that phone conversation which is also throwing me off: | |
So romance K-Dramas tend to give us a shot with iconic "hearts" hidden in the composition when two characters are meant to be (such as in this screengrab of Feel Good to Die). Notice here how HJP grabs a tissue from a box with a very prominent heart on it. In addition, this time our leads are color-coded as well; which is also another visual cue to pair characters together. I very much doubt that the choice to have that heart there and give it emphasis by having HJP approach it is merely coincidental. And, of course, when HJP leaves the room and turns to look at SDM one last time, we're greeted with this composition. Note the logo's insertion here: | |
At the end of the day, these contradicting moments kind of makes you wonder if any of them should be together as something other than friends, right? But let's still talk about other problematic messages delivered in this episode:
>> Nan Do San <<
Let me remind everyone that I liked Do San as a character and I was really hoping to see a change in him, wherein he would be more honest. But so far, despite the time skip, he's still pretty much stuck on his ways, which is now getting frustrating. And he isn't the only one who hasn't changed. His friends also run on the idea of being indecisive.
Perhaps one of the most frustrating scenes in this episode for me, was when Do San and Dal Mi meet in the former's office; wherein Dal Mi's objective is to recruit them (professional).
A problematic message about this interaction is how dismissive Do San is now that he's not getting his way. He reminded me of the scene in the bus a couple of episodes back, prior to their breakup. I disliked that he didn't think to at least be professional and hear Dal Mi's proposal. It also echoed back to when Dal Mi asked him for space and he refused to give it to her. But now she should back up? | Now, this part I actually liked and I had high hopes for it. I thought that, finally, the characters would have a proper talk. I thought they would've finally realized that they were both in love with an illusion. Do San loved a girl who already thought the world of him; while Dal Mi loved a guy who had helped her during the worst moment of her life (the one who wrote to her). Sadly, this scene led us nowhere, as later on we still get romantic scenes shoved down our throats, nullifying the power of this message (just like when Dal Mi asked for space and we got romantic scenes instead)... | ||
Of course, later on, we get this scene, wherein we're basically told that no matter how much Do San wishes to "wipe" his feelings for Dal Mi, he cannot. |
What's more, towards the latter half of the episode, NDS (having learned apparently nothing) asks his Dad for advice on how to solve his problems. Of course, he follows his directions to the letter.
Not only does this show he's still following other people's directions rather than finding his own path; but it also ends up with him getting hurt.
This echoes back on when he followed Dal Mi's directions and, after walking in the rain, ended up not being rewarded with a beautiful scene (rainbow).
Of course, he still somehow ends up being rewarded by having Seo Dal Mi find him and provide him food (nourishment). And, in so doing, we get a powerful message (follow your own path) nullified by the writer within the same episode...
In an effort not to lose sight of the positive, let's now moved on to something I really liked:
>> Han Ji Pyung <<
I love how HJP continues to be the only grown-up around, lol. His maturity is a breath of fresh air and it's part of the reason why I want him to be the main lead. Throughout the second half, he has owned up to everything he's done and has been consistently an overall good guy.
Apart from In Jae's scenes, I absolutely adored his scenes with Kim Yong San. I think it's worth pointing out how the writer managed to add a scene to mend their relationships while not providing the same for the sisters, but I'll let that horse rest. Noticed how easily HJP could've accepted KYS's apology and moved on. Yet, showing what an awesome character he is, he apologies in turn. Even more admirable than that is the next scene, where HJP manages to successfully separate his personal feelings from his professional ones (SDM and NDS need to take a page from that book) and provides honest advice regarding their company. |
Needless to say, I haven't lost all hope that HJP is the end game. But, at this point, I'll be happy if the writer manages to somehow establish that...
Honesty is the best currency,
so you can only be happy when and if you accept yourself.
The right path is the one we choose,
not the one someone else chose for us...
---
What do you guys think?
---
You can read my thoughts on Episode 15 here.
At this point, the writer has lost so much credibility in my eyes, I don't believe she'll give us the positive messages. The only thing saving me from dropping this drama entirely is HJP. Otherwise, I would not support this drama in any way because of all the wrong things it represents and the wrong messages it sends to viewers. If this is a youth drama in which NDS and SDM are supposed to be relatable to the viewers, then she doesn't give today's young adults enough credit.
Wow, thank you so much for the fascinating insights. I really really love your analysis, and agree with everything you've pointed out, hence have nothing to add.
Last week, I said I decided to trust that 'the writer has a pleasant surprise in store for us at the end of this roller coaster ride that makes it worthwhile and that HJP will find true happiness'. Now despite my continued disappointment and frustration, I choose to stand by that statement. The reason is very simple - my gut tells me that the same person who created such a beautiful wholesome character as HJP with much thought, great care and consistency couldn't NOT know what she was doing with the other character NDS and that she must have had her purposes. My guess was that for some reason, she got lost while building his journey, helping him grow and trying to fix certain things here and there - hence those inconsistencies and regression not only seen in DS but also in DM. But I'd like to believe she's not completely clueless otherwise HJP would suffer too in terms of character's growth and personality but nope (though ironically he's been suffering the most in life). That and the things you said make me think JP-DM endgame is still possible, or we may have an open ending where DM starts to really look at JP and thinks of him first the way he longs for, even though I honestly think he deserves better and I don't really support this endgame. But it's his happiness that I care about - if it's DM so be it.
With that said, we will probably have to abandon logic given the ongoing mess of plot holes and all.
At this point, only 2 episodes left, it seems a bit too late to fix the whole mess and turn it into something as beautiful as what we got in episode 1. But let's wait and see. Maybe the finale will be another beautiful episode?
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