Kimsamsoom

If NDS is a new type of ML, then HJP is a new type of SL then, because most SL's don't get a better backstory than the ML, have half of the series (Ep. 1-8) revolve around them, and have better dialogue and characterization than the ML.

Actually HJP does have quite a bit of flaws that he tries to hide behind his harsh persona. These flaws, when they manifest, get a lot of sympathy due to how realistic and relatable they are to the audience.

Like I've said before:

NDS represents the flaws in ourselves we don't want to admit we have, when we are backed into the corner.

While

HJP represents the hidden strength in us that we do not know we have when faced with adversity.

So in a lot of ways, the way HJP is portrayed in Start Up, is a lot more inspiring to us folks who don't always have a lucky four leaf clover in our pockets. HJP teaches us that in the end, as satisfying it is to be selfish, manipulative, and reckless in life, our good conscience will often win out, and we will end up doing the right thing, even sometimes, at the cost of our success. That is HJP in a nutshell for me, and why I think he is by far the most relatable of the leads in Start Up.

NDS just simply represents the Mary Sue/Gary Stu in literary works, and there are already so so so many of those in Kdrama and Western Shows, where the main characters always wins, always get out of any jam. It's very reminiscent of 90's cartoons, where the bad guys always lost, while the good guys always win.

It's 2021 now, and the audience are more mature, even the teenagers are so mature now, I am finding out. So these tired clichés and over familiar tropes feel boring, especially to a TV watching audience that has for the past 4-5 years been bombarded by many excellently written Western shows. Asian drama watchers have their horizon's broadened, their expectations raised, and their social values modified.

You see, in these well written western shows, the Mary Sue doesn't exist as much, there are enough occasions where the "Orphan" actually get's his happy ending. There is that movement that is growing in western shows, where grey characters are front and center. Cobra Kai and Game of Thrones are two shows that do this really well off the top of my head.

Unfortunately, Kdrama are not huge risk takers, and some of these supposedly popular writers, keep going back to the same old toolbox, merely changing the names on the script, and the setting, but continuing to rehash old formulas that have long been proven outdated and ineffective to a maturing Kdrama watching audience.

At the moment, Start up is clear #1, the second most is IONTBO with around 18k comments.

It's a meaningless accomplishment, but its a little fun, like Kickstarter where your trying to reach a goal! :)))

I'm excited to binge Run On.

Yeah, whenever someone comments on here with a negative slant, I immediately just check their join date. And 8/10 times, they just joined the same day they commented.

I'm sure True Beauty comment section is the same.

Eh, it's been like this since the show ended, I doubt it's going to change. Every few days or so, a new account comes in and does the following things:

1. Calls this the most toxic comment section ever.
2. Compared this drama to True Beauty.
3. Can't understand what is so great about HJP.
4. Shames people on why they post so much on this section, and can't move on.
5. Can't understand the hate for NDS.

And it's a vicious cycle over and over again.

Hey at least it will help the section reach 30k comments.

Suzy is pretty.

Firs off, thank you for helping the comment section reach 30k comments. Your contribution in this endeavor will not soon be forgotten!

Actually, when people talk about NDS, it's not grounded in reality, but is more fantastical. An example are people saying NDS is very family oriented, selfless, and kind. This is not reality, as the show actually does not portray him this way. I can go into further detail about these if you want.

I agree, I don't understand why there is so much hate post towards HJP, he is clearly the tragic hero in this story.

To be fair, all the promotional materials was pointing to a NDS and SDM ending. It's just that the writer left so many crumbs for an HJP ending.

I like to keep my writing skills sharp :)))

So I don't mind explaining, and re-explaining, as long as someone wants to listen.

Is it? Sahar's statement seems to mirror the writer's intention. So is it sarcastic if it actually describes what happened in the show?

The only thing that may be sarcastic is punching HJP harder. I think NDS punched him hard enough.

I agree, there is a bit of backpedaling here, as the initial post, clearly demonstrates the presence of a competition, of where NDS would get his/her vote.

There are online polls online asking people if they prefer HJP or NDS with SDM. Or if they think HJP should be the main lead.

The results vary, depending on the website. But you'll find a majority of them side with HJP, with the more egregious polls having HJP winning by as much as 85%.

"Secondly, my statement being that there is no competition between the two characters is exactly that. That there shouldn't be any competition at all. "

This is factually incorrect. If may have been your initial intention, but your initial post posits a theory that there MUST be a competition, and in such a competition, you would side with NDS over HJP.

There is no real formula for ML and SML. Keep in mind the term SML can also exist for characters who have platonic relationship. The terms grow in meaning when the ML and SML enter a love triangle. And you'll notice that although love triangles are popular in Kdrama, not all drama's have them, so your usage of the term SML and ML to exclusively mean the SML loving the FL on his own is incorrect.

"I much prefer Nam Do San over him. To me, there is no competition between them.."

It is you who made it into a competition, FYI.

I think a lot of it has to do with how mature HJP is throughout the series. He makes adult decisions constantly throughout the series. His methods may be harsh, but you can't argue with the results. So for people who are working in real life, HJP is someone to be admired, and his success in life, feels attainable and inspiring. What makes HJP special is that he isn't special. He is relatable, his life is realistic, and his decisions understandable.

While NDS, reminded most people of that angsty teenager in the bus who is always looking weirdly at everyone. Even though he is a certified adult, he still acts like he is still in high school, feeling slighted at the smallest provocation, is prone to tears, and is reckless. And the only reason this angsty teenager succeeds, is because of a genetic imbalance that has made him a prodigy. This fact alone, makes him unrelatable to most people who don't have as high an IQ as NDS. Also, seeing every lucky clover shine his way, and seeing all his mistakes go unpunished, and have him face zero repercussion has not resonated with majority of audiences.

If the show was situated in a local Korean High School, and HJP is the school bully, and NDS is the nerdy guy. Then perhaps people would like NDS more. But unfortunately the writer chose to make the setting high tech Silicon Valley, where such immature actions by NDS and his cohorts are not only ridiculed but vilified by audiences who are tired of seeing this type of story in Kdrama.

The writer would do well to learn from the writer or True Beauty, who knew her target audience, and made a story that fits the range of emotions that befits young love in High School.

Actually it's mostly Suzy I believe.

FYI, for clarity, I am sure Start Up is a worst drama compared to True Beauty, the fact that True Beauty is based on a webtoon, and has a cult following, makes it a superior plot from the get go.

But the comment section here is pretty amazing, once you blocked all the trolls, it actually became a very lively community with parallel goals. And during the live airings, most of the HJP fans, just ignored the NDS fans, and rarely do HJP fans attack NDS fans personally. As you can imagine, most NDS fans were in fact NJH fans who were not happy with any criticism of their celebrity. But as I said, the hateful post by NDS fans were either deleted, blocked, or people like myself, just placed those users on our blocked list. I have at least 10 people on my block list just from this drama alone.

Where did HJP fans get a reputation for being toxic? It's the old adage of "A few rotten apples spoils the whole barrel" idiom. What happened is that SOME HJP fans on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook were pretty bad. Some fans were even sending death threats to the writer and NJH. And as the HJP MDL fans have repeatedly said, we are different here, we don't do those malicious things.

And the reason a lot of the people from the live airings keep coming back here and continue to lurk and post comments is a sign that the community and memories of HJP fans here were pretty supportive and healthy. The opposite of a toxic environment.

It's human nature to compare oneself, or one's situation to another more "worse" situation to make oneself feel better. Maturity doesn't fix this societal issue, as the quickest way to feel good, is to make another feel bad. It's an unavoidable flaw of humans.

If the trolls get unbearable on TB, you mature folks are welcome to post here, as your second home on MDL :)))

Ahh, interesting. Yes I was unaware. I figure most teenagers are more into videogames, social media, anime, and stuff. I am out of touch LOL! Teenagers of today are a lot more mature than I thought then :)))

I recognize a few of those names, and yeah they were super nice in Start Up comment section as well :)))

Thanks for the kind words!

Oh, for sure Link has the more interesting plot. But MGY and KSH were already a couple in 2019, so I would rather see him act with somebody else.

Plus SMA's fame IMO would help KSH name shine more. With SMA's rumored marriage with KWB, her name should be pretty hot for 2021, IMO.

Hey, whatever makes the legend of the Start Up comment section bigger is alright with me :))))

I guess we officially have meme status then.

"This comment section is toxic and bad, but it's nothing compared to the Start Up comment section"

I can live with that kind of notoriety, LOL!

I've been curious, do a lot of teenagers watch Kdrama? I'm a bit surprised by this to be honest.

Not sure if your guy or girl. But for me, as a woman, beauty standards is something I've had to grapple with all my life, and my skin color is one of my biggest regrets. But yeah, i'm not doing anything crazy to change it, maybe some foundation, bb cream, and etc..., but I would never do bleaching or whatever.

Plus in this current society, unfortunately, lighter skinned folks get treated a lot better than darker skinned folks. And I'm not talking like white or black people, but rather the difference within the same racial culture even. Like darker skinned koreans vs lighter skinned koreans. It's an Asian thing.