L13

That said, Baek Moongang could have easily reported his wife's death to the police and said he found an intruder going through his stuff when he got home and the intruder tried to flee and pushed BMG's wife to her death on his way out of the house. This claim would have been almost impossible to disprove. Instead, BMG decided to hide her body in a freezer, thus making himself look guilty and also making it impossible for the coroner to determine her time of death precisely and link it to the time window when there was an intruder in their house (assuming he was caught on CCTV somewhere nearby)... The lesson here is: don't conceal crimes you can easily pin on other people! RSJ is lucky BMG is not that smart.

Why the heck does Ryu Sungjoon put himself in a position to get framed for more and more murders every episode instead of clearing himself of suspicion for at least some of them? Every time he enters a room alone I know there's gonna be a dead body in there.

I think the facial expressions of the ‘nice’ software engineer guy and the sushi chef and the camera’s attention to them when Eunki asked about RSJ at the meeting with the jurors both suggest they know more about what’s going on than they let on. Is it possible they’re both from the facility?

I hope that's not the case because it would be contrived and unrealistic and I don't get the obsession with glorifying serial killers.

It's also obviously not going to happen.

Yeah, I also started thinking about that after I wrote my comment. It could be that the police chief and BMG only recognised the necklace because Jung Yoonjae came to the orphanage with it, but the other children didn’t necessarily know about it because they were all given tracksuit uniforms instead of their own clothes… but it’s not a very convincing argument. RSH knowing RSJ’s necklace is a big possibility that weakens my argument.

Sorry for the late reply, but illegal streaming sites tend to lift the first subs they can find because they're in a race to be the first to release a subbed version of whatever drama/movie. And if better subs appear later on, they don't bother to update them. It annoys me a lot too.

I think Sunghoon is doing it for Jung Yoonjae but doesn’t realise Jung Yoonjae is Sungjoon.

As I and probably many others suspected, Ryu Sungjoon seems to be Jung Yoonjae and Ryu Sunghoon might be boy #11, who organised the escape from the facility. (We have seen nothing concrete linking RSH to #11 yet, but their personalities and age relative to RSJ/JYJ's seem to match and the child actor playing #11 kinda resembles Ha Seokjin.)

Now, I am extremely sceptical of the idea RSJ is the revenge killer or involved in the murders at all; he seems to have no memory of the facility, and as the shaman lady said, he's not even aware of his real identity.

However, the killer or killers are introducing themselves as 'Jung Yoonjae' while taking revenge on Baek Moongang and his past accomplices. This suggests to me that the killers are boys from the facility.

As for why they would introduce themselves as JYJ, there are two possibilities: either to frame JYJ/RSJ for the murders OR to take revenge on his behalf, because they think he was BMG's biggest victim and it would be most meaningful to use his name.

I don't entirely discount the first possibility, but it would require some reason for the murderers to be conspiring to frame RSJ and I don't think it's easy to come up with a good one if they are indeed other victims of BMG. My theory is actually that the second possibility is true: the killers are using Yoonjae's name because they're taking revenge in his memory. BECAUSE THEY THINK HE'S DEAD.

Especially if Sunghoon is part of the murder conspiracy, which is my working assumption, the perpetrators won't want to make RSJ the scapegoat for their crimes. But if they don't know RSJ is JYJ or even that JYJ is alive, they won't be afraid to use that alias.

Also, given all the horrors that we already know transpired in the facility, the only reason Yoonjae would be considered its biggest victim (and Sunghoon would stare angstily at ball #13 during the jury selection scene in ep. 1 and so on) could be that the murderer(s) think he died during the escape attempt. Like, they were all tortured and beaten on the regular, so what makes JYJ special? He must have suffered a fate even worse than the other boys'. Well, the most logical idea that comes to mind is that he was killed, or so the Joker murderers think.

So to sum up, my theory is that JYJ, who was hiding underneath the floorboards the last time we saw him in the flashback timeline, was captured by BMG, something really terrible happened to him, boy #11 and any other possible survivors believed JYJ died, then boy #11 (and possibly some others) got out and eventually hatched a plan to punish all the adults involved in running the facility and decided to use JYJ's name as their calling card.

JYJ, meanwhile, somehow survived, lost his memory, and was adopted by the Ryu family, either long before or long after Ryu Sunghoon joined them (because if they were both adopted soon after escaping the facility, Sunghoon should have recognised his face). And RSH doesn't know his younger brother is actually JYJ. The end!

Sorry for the massive comment, but I wanted to lay out every detail clearly. Do let me know if there are any big problems with this theory.

I'm still getting through episode 4, but I just got to the point where the police chief saw the necklace (this should be vague enough not to spoil you if you haven't seen the episode yet) and I've started to flesh out a theory:

I'm enjoying the drama so far and don't mind Esther Yu's mannerisms in this role, but I swear you guys discover the concept of free speech all over again every drama. "What do you want her to do?" Like not get cast in this role, probably. People are free to think that!

lmao grow up. This is a discussion board for a drama, not a fan page for the actors. People are SUPPOSED to post positive and negative opinions and everything in between.

Anyway, this is fun so far, but I'm not taking any of it seriously.

The idea that someone would be a presiding judge in Korea before 40 is already absurd enough before we add the ridiculous proposition that a judge would be allowed to preside over a case against a defendant who is suing the judge's brother for police brutality, or over a case where the defendant was arrested by the judge's brother and accuses the judge's brother of committing the crime... like, there's absolutely no way Sunghoon would be allowed to go ahead with those cases involving Sungjoon. And his assistant, a JUNIOR JUDGE, is like, "I hate jury trials because I want criminals to get harsher penalties!!!" lmao what? I know many judges are biased against defendants, but surely they teach you in law school not to say the quiet part out loud? And then he has to explain to her that that's not even how it works statistically speaking? Clown fiesta. And meanwhile Sungjoon is going around assaulting people with zero professional consequences like this is America? I've seen Live! I know he would have been fired midway through episode 1 in the real world.

Again, though, I'm still having fun. It's just more of a turn your brain off crime thriller like Mouse or Beyond Evil than a realistic one like Through the Darkness or Children of Nobody.

When Sunghoon is drawing the people selected for jury duty out of a bowl in ep. 1, there's a split-second shot of him staring down at ball #13. 13 was Yoonjae's number in the facility, so I think this might have been a hint SH was also there (and maybe that he was boy 11, who stayed behind to help YJ and also went to the police).

It's a very brief, blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot, but I'm pretty sure it was intentionally placed there.

Yay, thank you!

Well… the whole point is that she’s pretending? She puts on a childish persona to mess with the ML.

She’s not that famous? Older people who don’t spend a lot of time on the internet only see beauty product ads by famous actors on TV? Meiren can barely afford her apartment and you think Chinese aunties in the deep countryside should know her?

This is not a “plot hole” at all.

I'm two episodes in and I find the FL's obsession with the ML quite disturbing instead of cute. She is literally stalking a guy she knows nothing about. And what's most off-putting is that she has absolutely no awareness of the fact that her behaviour is unhealthy and needs to change. So the drama treats it as normal too, like we're supposed to sympathise with her.

The ML's character and background are actually interesting too, and normally I am into the whole 'girl gradually wears down guy she likes' relationship dynamic. But I don't like delusional stalkers FFS.

Honestly, her voice and mannerisms irritated me to no end in Love Between Fairy and Devil, but they work better here because she's playing a self-aware person. Her character puts on a cute/childish act to get what she wants and we see her when the mask is off too.

I get the sense from the scant information available that I'll like this drama. I hope it will get subbed somewhere.

When you consider the awful rumours of sexual violence surrounding celebrities like Ayano Go and how little they've affected their careers, the fact Narimiya Hiroki was forced into retirement over something that didn't hurt anybody is even more of a travesty.

That said, I hope he's enjoying life away from the spotlight and can be himself in peace <3 It sounds like the scrutiny Japanese celebrities endure was hard on him, so if he's really made a new life for himself abroad, that's great and I wish him the best.