Lesbians4KPOPBL

Thank you for saying that. I was just going to point out the frequent instances of lack of consent, as well as the "I just like him" declaration by rewatching some of the episodes to get the exact quotations receipts...

I disagree, though about the last good HIStory being Trapped. I LOVE HIStory 4: Close to You! Sunday evenings can't arrive fast enough for me!

I personally think that it's important to differentiate BL from gay storylines. There is no evidence that men who identify as heterosexual will EVER fall for a guy, no matter how great he is for him; no matter how compatible, no matter how attractive. BL was invented for women by women as a fantasy, not a reality. I am fully aware that sexual orientation (especially for men, according to research; not so much for women) is a real thing that tends to be static. I suppose that's why so many gay men who watch BL might tend to feel frustrated with that particular declaration of "only liking him, no other guys", because it is definitely not a true depiction of how life is when you are gay.

As I wrote elsewhere in this thread: as a gay man, falling in love with a male, heterosexual, close friend, would end in heartache and probably a loss of the friendship. In BL, it ultimately results in happily-ever-after, which, of course, is wholly unrealistic. That's the chief difference I can find between BL and gay storylines.

One of the reasons I tend to watch BL is because it isn't as depressing as the reality gay men face. Most gay films, for example, end up with sad or ambiguous endings.

One annoying side effect of BL, which I think is pretty terrible, is that BL tends to make some girls (not necessarily women) claim that they wish they were gay men so that they could fall in love with some hot guy like the ones they see in BL. They REALLY can't seem to tell the difference between fantasy and the hard realities gay men often have to face. In BLs, if a het guy suddenly starts liking another guy, completely out of the blue (which I already said is impossible), his friends tend to accept him, without much of a hiccup (HIStory 3: MODC, etc.). His parents tend to come round in virtually no time (Why RU, My Day, etc.). He is not in danger of losing his home or job if people find out he's gay, etc.. But in real life, that is not the way it works at all. And real life is what is depicted in gay films, time and time again.

So, I don't personally see any problem with characters declaring something that actually makes BL, BL. I can understand the frustration, irritation, disappointment, and even anger someone would feel, if they actually think that BL is supposed to be a vehicle for real life gay male representation and experience, but the truth is, it isn't. And that particular declaration is probably an irritant because it is a reminder of that very fact.

Wow, that co-worker! Women hating on women... :/
Glad Mu Ren pointed it out and put her in her place.
Rewatching this episode, because I loved it so much the first time around!

It may be "cliché", but it's also what makes BL, BL: the overcoming of one's previously stated sexual orientation because of their deep love for the other person. When this occurs between two men who considered themselves to be heterosexual up until that moment, then it's the BL definition of "true love".

I don't hate him.

If you really like it, please remember to give it a high rating, so that more people will be inclined to watch it, enjoy it, and appreciate it, just like you have.

Happy watching!

HIStory 4 is moving from strength to strength!

I have no idea where to begin. First of all, what was that Li Cheng did to Mu Ren's lips?!?!?!?!?

Secondly, I think LC might have been in-like-Flynn, if he hadn't said that last line, just as MR seemed as though he might have been mulling things over. That final look on MR's face before walking out didn't say "I don't like you that way". For me, it said, "I don't want to be 0". XD

I am admiring every character's personality more and more. LC is so direct and optimistic. He is such a good friend. I love the fact that even though he still loves MR, he was unwilling to make him feel so uncomfortable. When Gill was praising LC, I just kept thinking, "What a great guy" Everyone should have a friend like that!"

However, speaking of Gill, that poor, gorgeous woman could have been traumatized. She did not deserve being jerked around by these two as they attempted to get some clarity regarding their feelings for one another. It was nice that she got over that, but really, guys in BLs using women to fight their feelings or to figure their feelings out is really annoying, even though it makes for good drama.

Well, there were those lines again that often distinguish BL from gay dramas: "I don't like guys, I just like him", followed by the reasons (straight) women invented the genre in the first place and support it so devotedly: "It's true love". There it is: a love so deep and so strong that it makes you overcome your very own established sexual orientation would indeed, be a "true love". In a nutshell, is the true appeal of BL for (straight) women.

Moving on. Okay, these parents collapsing when they find out that their "children" (in quotes because YJ is not his biological child) are gay is really ridiculous. I'm a little tired of that one. I know there's the added shock of them being stepbrothers, but, still...

I LOVED that Yong Jie said that he would be willing to be Xing Si's little brother, if that's what XS decides. This is in keeping with what we know about YJ's character up to this point: he has consistently put XS's happiness before his own. I was glad that YJ's response mirrored LC in this regard. During that scene with Xing Si, XS reminded me of Lu Zhi Gang in HIStory 3: MODC, when he was telling Sun Bo Xiang about all his history, flaws and expectations. Except, that went a lot more smoothly between those two than I think this will. I think the couple of XS and YJ have several more bumps up ahead.

Because of the complex, round characters and rich, provocative, storytelling, this HIStory is one of the BEST BLs I've seen!

Roll on, next Sunday!

I think you're right. He didn't get cast credit on that drama, either.

The ep. 11 & 12 PREVIEW may signal a more favourable characterization of Yong Jie.

The fact that Yong Jie is going to show the recording he made to Xing Si's father seems to suggest that nothing more happened than what we were shown in ep. 6.

Also, in ep. 9 & 10, when Mu Ren (who often plays the role of truth teller, so we may be inclined to trust his words in this case) tells Xing Si that Yong Jie took advantage of him, XS defends YJ saying "He's not like that." According to the diary entries, Yong Jie seems to have sacrificed his own happiness for XS, which explains why he said that he'd had a "sad and painful love". He stood silently by seeing him in love with and kissing someone else, as well enduring the pain of XS wanting to move out. However, instead of trying to convince XS to stay (as a selfish, controlling person would do), he got himself into trouble in order to make sure that XS was able to move out, even though, in the process, YJ would certainly suffer. Even when he professes his love in the diary, he says that XS needs someone next to him, not that he needs to be next to XS. Because of his devotion, loyalty and willingness to sacrifice his own happiness for XS, he believes that he is the best choice to fulfill this role.

Both the characters of YJ and MR seem to be gifted with extraordinary powers of observation and truth telling (YJ far more bluntly and sometimes inappropriately in contrast to MR) and these traits seem to be something that connects them. Since MR is clearly a "good" protagonist, a connection to YJ might suggest that he may also be.

That whole hotel scene may very well be a type of red herring, dangled before us by the writer in order to misrepresent YJ so that we find it harder to figure him out or to guess what is coming next.

I am rewatching the series from the beginning and I've found the first episode far more interesting than I did when I'd watched it initially. MR's observations and advice seem to contain some foreshadowing especially with regard to Li Cheng. Also, MR and LC relationship seems actually to have more romantic potential than I'd thought. Upon closer examination, it comes across as more plausible and not so much as the unbridled fantasy of the fujoshi.

I LOVE this show with these complex characters and situations! Roll on, Sunday!

The expressions on Sky's face before and after the kiss are golden. Before the kiss, his look is questioning, trying to read Paper's face, hoping that somehow he might feel the same. After the kiss, as he clasps Paper's hand, Sky's expression is heartrending as he seems to be silently begging him not to go, not to leave him on his birthday and not to leave him as a friend. His look of desperation as he realizes Paper's rejection is so subtle, yet so powerful.

What is really difficult is that at first, Paper seems to want the kiss, too. Poor Sky.

I keep rewatching episodes, and the more I do, the more I notice things I'd overlooked or forgotten and the more impressed I am.

I need to make note of all of the scenes that really stood out to me. But the one that SPRINGS to mind is the scene where Xing Si is reading Yong Jie's diary. I think that one is particularly great.

The actors are doing a fantastic job. I think this is especially evident in the fact that they are successfully tackling the changes that are occurring during the ongoing development of these complex characters.

I thought this was going to be a simplistic, comedic BL. Boy, was I wrong! And I'm glad I was, because this story, in all its complexity, is really a credit to the HIStory franchise.

I've seen that teacher in another drama. I've been wracking my brain, but...nothing. Do you have any idea where? I haven't found him in the cast listing.

I may be making assumptions here, but I think J100 might have meant "paced".

Join the club! I really thought I was seeing things!

Wasn't that song they were dancing to featured in Gay OK Bangkok?

Wow. That's pretty scary. How invested are these people? And why?

Wellllll, um, I'm not sure that YJ actually gave XS a blowjob. I mean, we saw him headed in that direction, so it's a reasonable assumption, but I still have my doubts.

I also know what you mean about XS's bottoming statement. I thought it might just be an assumption that he made, since he only seemed to remember bits and pieces of what happened. He might have inferred that from his memories of YJ's activity.

I think the points you made are further supported by the happiness on YJ's face, even when he discovered that he was all alone in the bed. But, I am asking myself if that happiness was caused by his plan coming together, or on the sex, or on the fact that XS confessed to loving him and then tried to kiss him on the lips.

I just think it would be fun if nothing actually happened and everything that we saw was just filmed for the father's benefit to advance YJ's plan, because then all of the people in this comment section who have been yelling "rape" would have to eat their words. I've already argued over and over again why I do not share that viewpoint (as have many others), so I don't plan to revisit it here.

Anyway, I get what you're saying. :)

I'm thinking about H4 WAAAAAY too much!

During their scene together, I was actually shipping Mu Ren and Xing Si while they were having their heart-to-heart. I guess it was the tender, understanding eye contact.

I also imagined that in another story, the characters of Li Cheng and Yong Jie would make an interesting couple, due to that fact that YJ is so somber and LC is such a funny, warm, lighthearted guy, who isn't above teaching YJ a lesson when needed.

All that craziness aside, I am SO glad that there is a BL that focuses on friendship as much as this one does. True friendship is one of the strongest relationships one can be part of. I know that MR and LC getting together will sort of ruin that aspect of the Iron Triangle, but I want to see them together nonetheless.

Rooting for both couples (not my crazy ships!).

You are not the only one. I've suspected all along that nothing happened. Based on the diaries and next week's previews, I think that he not only wanted XS not to remember anything, but he also just wanted to film just enough to fulfill the requirements of his plan regarding XS's father (which I don't pretend to fully understand, and can't wait to see fully revealed).

I love this show! I think the fact that we have to think so much about it shows that it is a high-value BL.

Oh, dear. I guess this is going to be a general rant, jumping from point to point.

Two pet peeve observations:

1) Here we go again: yet another instance of media representation of using women's bodies to conceal men's gay feelings/identity/orientation. Poor Gill. She seems like a pretty cool person. I know this happens in real life (way too often!) because in many countries, parents and society-at-large seem so unwilling to accept gay men/sons, so often those men either try to convince themselves that they can "change" or their parents' expectations make them put on some kind of act. Unfortunately, it's the women such as Puifai in TharnType, and Tai in Club Friday The Series 9: Ruk Tong Laek that get it in the neck.
2) Here we go again: using makeup that is too light on an actor with a little darker skin (An Jun Peng). This actor is extremely handsome and this fact is enhanced, not diminished by his skin colour.

Anyway, moving along. I wouldn't be surprised if Yong Jie didn't actually have sex with Xing Si, but only wanted to make this recording as part of his plan.

Yong Jie is seeming less and less selfish. He actually pretended to act up and got into trouble with the parents in order for Xing Si to be able to leave home, because he thought it would make XS happier. That doesn't sound like someone who is willing to put his own happiness before XS's. He also didn't try to come between XS and "that person" that he loved. He just felt happy that XS was happy and sad for himself. Also, YJ's reason for comforting XS when he was quietly crying by himself was because he felt XS needed that.

One more thing I think needs mentioning: the SOCIAL taboo against "incest" is driven by the BIOLOGICAL risks of two closely related family members reproducing. Therefore, the original incest taboo assumes two things: 1) a heterosexual relationship/sexual encounter, and 2) a genetic relationship. These two stepbrothers are neither, so this taboo that doesn't really apply to them, ends up restricting their possibility of having a relationship. Dogma and ideology at work.

Moving along again. I read a comment that said that Li Cheng "watching Mu Ren masturbate all night" was along the lines of some sort of sexual harassment. I disagree. Li Cheng stayed in the room with Mu Ren in order to protect him. Just because MR was masturbating, LC didn't think that was a reason to leave his friend alone. I know this isn't the same situation, but there are heterosexual men, who actually heterosocially masturbate with their friends in a group, even though they aren't sexually attracted to those friends. I don't pretend to understand the practice, I simply know that it exists. Like LC said, he didn't think it would matter, because they're both guys. But, since this is the land of BL, having seen MR in that state, made LC start to develop (or at least acknowledge) a romantic/sexual interest in him.

Now, we can discuss LC's actions in the locker room and in the communal bath, and what those might mean, but I think him staying with his friend all night, making sure that he was safe, is not really part of that.

Finally, I think that one of the reasons that HIStory 4: Close to You is so great is because it's forcing viewers to question their deeply-held beliefs, assumptions and expectations, while being wildly entertaining at the same time. I look forward to Sundays now like nobody's business.

Rooting for both couples!