Fantastic show. The acting was just amazing throughout and I have to mention the Double Chois. I mean one is Choi…
And now let me nerd out a bit about the Sturm und Drang period, which Goethe and The Sorrows of Young Werther were a big part of. Sturm und Drang was a german literary movement that put individual subjectivity and extreme emotions into its center. Very fitting for the show IMO. The individual subjectivity of Professor Heo drove the plot and was the reason why the revenge succeeded that well. Revenge and greed being two common characteristics of Sturm und Drang protagonists. Both Lee Kang and Professor Heo are driven by it.
The characteristics of a 'tragic hero' whose quest against self-doubt, (perceived) unfairness and for their freedom leading to their own destruction also fits very well because Professor Heo is at the end responsible for his own destruction. And Professor Heo is the hero in his own story. He wanted to win over Sun Ho. He wanted to be the hero and save Eun Jo and her son.
It is also about strong emotions, especially Love, Anger and Loneliness, all that can be found in the show.
And then there is The Sorrows of Young Werther, as mentioned in the first episode. Werther loves a woman who doesn't love him back. It drives him to despair. The book is presented as a collection of letters that Werther wrote. I think it also fits very well. The writing of Lee Kang evoke similarities to the letters, especially because they IMO were made to look more like letters. I don't think I have to mention the unrequited love and self-destruction (though it's a suicide in Werther). It's also interesting that Professor Heo made a mistake with the names that Lee Kang corrected (mixing the rival and best friend), humiliating him before everyone but he still never doubts anything about Lee Kang because he wants that narrative. And the mix up reframes the original love triangle of the novel for the show. Because Professor Heo didn't set out to write this Story, Lee Kang started it and fed him until he took over the narrative. So there is no best friend. It subverts the friend because Lee Kang is at first the writer and is the opposite and targets him. A friend become an antagonistic mentee, he uses to fantasize about his first love and her family. Melting friend, rival, first love and protagonist (the 4 of Werther) into a combastive Mix.
Fantastic show. The acting was just amazing throughout and I have to mention the Double Chois. I mean one is Choi Min Sik, who is rightfully a legend. But Choi Hyun Wook really matched him in his own right. And that at his age. I really hope they'll get some acting nominations. Directing, editing, and cinematography were also good and aided in my enjoyment of the show. The pacing was really good with all the rising tension. And my favourite thing was the unreliability of it all. Was was real? What was fiction? What was imagination? What was wrong exactly?
Rating: 9/10
Below, some of my spoilery ramblings discussing how **The Sorrows of Young Werther**, which was mentioned in the 1st episode fits into the show
So I'm assuming it's supposed to show that she is one of the kids that they tested on in the past just like the…
Ahh, I never saw the Witch movies, so I didn't have that association. Your explanation makes a lot of sense, thanks!
(Though now I think they should have better depicted the second personality and her supressing it, not only like the '3 random talking to herself' scenes she had.
President has a mysterious accident where he was lucky he survived, first thing after waking from a coma and is able to talk: calling out for his brother (now president)
His wife: "Ah, yes. Nothing suspicious here. Only brotherly love, not the well known trope of attempting to communicate a murder attempt"
Maybe she should have watched more crime shows. It would have kept her husband alive
Not sure if I miss that…..so who is the initial person that wrote online about unfair hiring (other than Moon)??
As far as I understood it someone outside the company who didn't get the job, but knew someone from university with worse qualifications but with connections, who did get a job. (The anonymous post mentioned knowing them from studying, and their father having ties to an executive)
The first post was not posted on the intranet site, but on a public forum.
Am I the only one who has been thinking about the hidden meaning behind the time 11:00... How are the things that…
I think in the opening of the first episode, with the scenes in the hospital, the clock showed everything happened (and the Patient died) at 11.
So I guess Great died at 11 in an original timeline, and has now the chance to change everything. But the 11 showing up everywhere is an unconcious reminder of what happened.
Because even though he is under threat, that would still be wrongful detainment/imprisonment!That's why he stood…
Ehh, I think they generally did as best as they could. Every car was stopped and looked at, there were controls at the house, they emptied the Supermarket. I feel they did as much as they could during active protests and reporter groups.
And don't forget, though he was threatened nothing happened until then. It was the real first attempt. I don't think anyone would think an old lady would do it, especially with arrows. I don't think that's normally on the Bingo cards for threat Assessment.
But there was the massive mistake of letting her inside the shop. That was the only real mistake I saw.
Regarding the safe House: It seems there needs to be some official bureaucracy regarding his release and ankle bracelet. Maybe that needs to be done at home? Or at the official adress as ordered by court?
The police officers' incompetence is frustrating, as usual in this type of show. Why would they let him leave…
Because even though he is under threat, that would still be wrongful detainment/imprisonment!
That's why he stood at the doorway and shouted for the reporters. Because he wanted to force the police to either bend to his will or have a big police scandal on the news immediately.
I was not prepared for the anonymous Roulette Game where a target, a sadistic action and the amount of reward money is chosen for the masses online. What a fantastic Setup.
That begs the question: Is the Roulette really random or is the target chosen? My money is on chosen after the 1st episode. And who is the Triskele Mask Guy and how does he have that much money?
That's a bit complicated, because overall it has a more open ending.
It's left open ended if Moonjo is alive or dead, when or if Jungwoo really killed Moonjo and the others, and what Jungwoo hallucinated. And overall there is the possibility that everything is the story Jungwoo wrote. The entire drama is using the unreliable narrator as it's best, and every viewer has to decide by themselves what narration/actions were the most reliable.
In my opinion: - Jungwoo killed Moonjo - Jungwoo killed the others and made it seem as if Moonjo did it (the evidence the police found that led them to believe that Moonjo did it)
The acting was the best part, the characters the worst because they were entirely one-dimensional and bland. The villains really unthreatening without a lot of impact (except for the pig scene)
The fighting choreography was okay, but the directing and editing of them actually lowered their quality a bit.
Lee Joon Hyuk as the crazy copycat fan was very fun and my favourite character (although also one-dimensional and almost a deus-ex-machina)
i think it's because he wears knuckle dusters when fighting.
Knuckle dusters or not, the sound effects are horrible and don't fit the grounded and more realistic setting. Those overdone punching sounds fit more to action-comedies like The Naked Gun, Scott Pilgrim or Deadpool.
Having them in a supposed serious drama immediatelly warps the tone in a very bad way
The Killing Vote is an absolutely horrible idea and system, that's from conception just rife with problems. That's…
I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm all for accountability, and the need to overhaul executive and judical systems but I really disagree about the Killing Vote being a wake up call or a spotlight for accountability.
Because the vote is inherently revenge driven and based on personal grievances and displays rather a lack of accountability for everyone. No matter If it's Gaetal, the voters or even the criminal victims. Because murdering the criminals makes them 1)victims themselves and 2) removes any chance of holding them accountable.
And don't forget, it's not the politicians and chaebols and actual powerful people responsible for the failing systems that are watched and possible vote victims.
The actual ones watched/killed are criminal common people. The show had 3 utterly horrible people with basically No motive except narcissm/sociopathy but those are in actuality only a very minor percentage. Most are made by unfair systems and circumstances (systematic racism leading to a lack of Future leading to crimes/failing social systems and abused/....)
Wow, I was extremely disappointed when I found out that Lee Min Soo is one of the Geatals. I supported the idea…
The Killing Vote is an absolutely horrible idea and system, that's from conception just rife with problems. That's why there was the school bullying scene inspired by the vote. To act as a mirror. Because the only ones who really profit from something like that are the already powerful and/or people who already enjoy to crush people.
Regarding Minsoo: I actually like the idea. Because it adds another level of tragedy to KSJ. And this time because of his own doing. If he unintentionally worked with the actual murderer it's just so tragic and shows how blinded he is in his thirst for revenge.
Thank you for copying my reddit comment.
If you had actually credited me I would have no problem with this, but just blindly copying it is just pathetic. :)
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/KDRAMA/comments/1ufxsq6/comment/otya60y/?context=3 [here the link to my comment]
The characteristics of a 'tragic hero' whose quest against self-doubt, (perceived) unfairness and for their freedom leading to their own destruction also fits very well because Professor Heo is at the end responsible for his own destruction. And Professor Heo is the hero in his own story. He wanted to win over Sun Ho. He wanted to be the hero and save Eun Jo and her son.
It is also about strong emotions, especially Love, Anger and Loneliness, all that can be found in the show.
And then there is The Sorrows of Young Werther, as mentioned in the first episode. Werther loves a woman who doesn't love him back. It drives him to despair. The book is presented as a collection of letters that Werther wrote. I think it also fits very well. The writing of Lee Kang evoke similarities to the letters, especially because they IMO were made to look more like letters. I don't think I have to mention the unrequited love and self-destruction (though it's a suicide in Werther). It's also interesting that Professor Heo made a mistake with the names that Lee Kang corrected (mixing the rival and best friend), humiliating him before everyone but he still never doubts anything about Lee Kang because he wants that narrative. And the mix up reframes the original love triangle of the novel for the show. Because Professor Heo didn't set out to write this Story, Lee Kang started it and fed him until he took over the narrative. So there is no best friend. It subverts the friend because Lee Kang is at first the writer and is the opposite and targets him. A friend become an antagonistic mentee, he uses to fantasize about his first love and her family. Melting friend, rival, first love and protagonist (the 4 of Werther) into a combastive Mix.
Rating: 9/10
Below, some of my spoilery ramblings discussing how **The Sorrows of Young Werther**, which was mentioned in the 1st episode fits into the show
(Though now I think they should have better depicted the second personality and her supressing it, not only like the '3 random talking to herself' scenes she had.
Overall, I have to agree with the general opinions here:
- great action
- good acting
- the lighting was often bad and scenes too dark
- rather flat story
7/10
His wife: "Ah, yes. Nothing suspicious here. Only brotherly love, not the well known trope of attempting to communicate a murder attempt"
Maybe she should have watched more crime shows. It would have kept her husband alive
The first post was not posted on the intranet site, but on a public forum.
in the hospital, the clock showed everything happened (and the Patient died) at 11.
So I guess Great died at 11 in an original timeline, and has now the chance to change everything. But the 11 showing up everywhere is an unconcious reminder of what happened.
And don't forget, though he was threatened nothing happened until then. It was the real first attempt. I don't think anyone would think an old lady would do it, especially with arrows. I don't think that's normally on the Bingo cards for threat Assessment.
But there was the massive mistake of letting her inside the shop. That was the only real mistake I saw.
Regarding the safe House: It seems there needs to be some official bureaucracy regarding his release and ankle bracelet. Maybe that needs to be done at home? Or at the official adress as ordered by court?
That's why he stood at the doorway and shouted for the reporters. Because he wanted to force the police to either bend to his will or have a big police scandal on the news immediately.
I was not prepared for the anonymous Roulette Game where a target, a sadistic action and the amount of reward money is chosen for the masses online. What a fantastic Setup.
That begs the question: Is the Roulette really random or is the target chosen? My money is on chosen after the 1st episode. And who is the Triskele Mask Guy and how does he have that much money?
It's left open ended if Moonjo is alive or dead, when or if Jungwoo really killed Moonjo and the others, and what Jungwoo hallucinated. And overall there is the possibility that everything is the story Jungwoo wrote. The entire drama is using the unreliable narrator as it's best, and every viewer has to decide by themselves what narration/actions were the most reliable.
In my opinion:
- Jungwoo killed Moonjo
- Jungwoo killed the others and made it seem as if Moonjo did it (the evidence the police found that led them to believe that Moonjo did it)
The acting was the best part, the characters the worst because they were entirely one-dimensional and bland. The villains really unthreatening without a lot of impact (except for the pig scene)
The fighting choreography was okay, but the directing and editing of them actually lowered their quality a bit.
Lee Joon Hyuk as the crazy copycat fan was very fun and my favourite character (although also one-dimensional and almost a deus-ex-machina)
Rating: 6/10
Having them in a supposed serious drama immediatelly warps the tone in a very bad way
I'm all for accountability, and the need to overhaul executive and judical systems but I really disagree about the Killing Vote being a wake up call or a spotlight for accountability.
Because the vote is inherently revenge driven and based on personal grievances and displays rather a lack of accountability for everyone. No matter If it's Gaetal, the voters or even the criminal victims. Because murdering the criminals makes them 1)victims themselves and 2) removes any chance of holding them accountable.
And don't forget, it's not the politicians and chaebols and actual powerful people responsible for the failing systems that are watched and possible vote victims.
The actual ones watched/killed are criminal common people. The show had 3 utterly horrible people with basically No motive except narcissm/sociopathy but those are in actuality only a very minor percentage. Most are made by unfair systems and circumstances (systematic racism leading to a lack of Future leading to crimes/failing social systems and abused/....)
Regarding Minsoo: I actually like the idea. Because it adds another level of tragedy to KSJ. And this time because of his own doing. If he unintentionally worked with the actual murderer it's just so tragic and shows how blinded he is in his thirst for revenge.