NoirRoex

Ok. Fan fan. I was pissed at you for moping over Luqing most of this episode. But you might have finally got down to business this episode. What did you tell your brother before seducing Luqing for what looks like a final go around? I don’t know if I would trust your brother with ANYTHING but there must have been something right? Did you follow the ex’s advice? I don’t know if I would help the ex in his individual plan either. What’s the plan Fanfan?

I’m pretty sure Luqing was referring to Xiaofan when he told his sister he was in love. Even though I’m sure he is trying to setup a life with Xiaofan, my problem with Luqing is he is perfectly fine with everyone else being miserable because he doesn’t like making assurances or letting people feel too stable. And he’s about to invite another woman into that. He has to keep control of money, love, and the family name to everyone’s misery. The name Bei is supposed to make him impervious to consequences.

Like if he really is as smart as everyone makes him out to be, there is no way he doesn’t see his ex coming after him, Xiaofan being done, and his brother messing around. There is NO WAY because there is too much warning from his friends and Xiaofan himself. Xiaofan would have to do more than just give his brother information on Luqing for the ex. You can’t be a master of information and market manipulation and fall because you couldn’t calculate that your ex, also a manipulator, was pissed at you. The writing has been good so far so I’m sure it will be good.

She clearly wanted love WHEREVER she could get it. Just like Xiaofan.

They basically made it so that’s all he has to do. I think this episode was the last time Xiaofan was going to treat Luqing like a lover. That’s why he initiated it. All Xiaofan has to do with all of them is leave. Karma will do the rest of the work. He doesn’t need to sit and watch it fall apart though. So he needs to leave. Just not sure where.

His friend asks him why he likes Xiaofan. Luqing talks about a maid who provided excellent service (didn't even need to ask for stuff) but drops a spoon before giving him food. Instead of getting him a new spoon, she gives him that spoon thinking he did not see it and wonders if Luqing was her own son, would she have done that. Xiaofan is so devoted at that time, that he does not even need to worry about the spoon being dropped in the first place. Xiaofan's devotion means Luqing doesn't have to worry about getting what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants it.

So the conversation about the soup and congee is annoying until you realize it's not about the soup/congee. If you think about the soup and the upgrade to congee as a relationship barometer, the changes in the conversation alludes to their relationship status.

Yeah. I might need to stay off this page for the next few weeks. lol. Obviously from the essays I keep writing, I can’t help myself. lol.

I actually didn't know there was a whole revenge arc. I thought at most he would finally get fed up. leave them without notice. and let them deal with their own messes and we'd get to see the fallout. So far, I don't see the setup of his character being vengeful. Just a bit passive aggressive toward Luqing at times. Guess I'm in store for major changes to justify the arc. I just don't see the evidence as of episode 9, that his character as is would go full revenge mode. But this might explain why he is happy to see someone when he first arrives in the new city at the train station in episode 7. I couldn't figure out who he'd be happy to see if he was new to the city. Might be forshadowing to that.

I like many people in the comments was getting frustrated in Xiaofan until episode 9. I was waiting for the evidence that Xiaofan was as smart as Luqing claims in an earlier episode. Then episode 9 made me re-watch episodes because I realized Xiaofan forced a change in Luqing's character there. If that happened, he's not passive. So I re-watched and saw this man is not as passive as I thought. He's unimposing and subtle with his resistance. That soup/congee thing later on is literally a way for Xiaofan to play dumb and get on Luqing's nerves. Both of them know Xiaofan knows better and it was funny to realize that was Xiaofan's way of being pissy at Luqing in later episodes.

I haven't read the book yet and have skipped the comments that explicitly said they were revealing whole plot. I'm just really into the drama and how understated some of their reactions are. I feel like it is a drama that heavily relies on dialogue and pattern changes to show whats going on with the characters beneath the surface; which I love.

But given that I'm usually a murder mystery gal, this might be why I am so invested. The bury the lead revenge arc type characters are usually in murder mystery suspense noir type shows and films.

Maybe you’re not to that point yet in the drama. But there is a character that subtle fits that description and Xiaofan isn’t it. The point of the later episodes is that he’s subtly choosing not to be and his family and Luqing are frustrated by that. It’s an understated resistance.

Because Luqing holds minimally financial power and familial power, Xiaofan doesn’t try to be overt in his resistance for fear of reprisal. But if Xiaofan slowly carves his own income and makes connection outside of the family, he’s not choosing to be helpless. (There is more to this but I’d rather not say too much)

So I think I can kind of help with Xiaofan’s character. So were introduced to Xiaofan as a young country boy arranged to be married to a woman he doesn’t know at the moment he discovered his parents betrayed his trust and married him to a pregnant woman who can best serve his families needs. He quickly establishes his character as wanting to be useful. Useful to his family and asks to be useful to the Bei’s. As a boy, he thinks he will be loved if he is useful. A lot of the later part of this drama is Xiaofan becoming more of an individual after repeatedly suffering the consequences of spending his time in the families as unguardedly useful to everyone. Being useful doesn’t mean being loved; it means being used and betrayed. A dialogue Xiaofan while watching movies seems to be about him realizing in a passive way that he lacks dignity (cause people put him in that position) and that it doesn’t have to be that way. These last few episodes is Xiaofan trying to find his own way with dignity as an individual man despite everyone trying to keep him as their useful boy. He’s never overt and never speaks too plainly to avoid causing offense or incurring consequences his family can’t handle. He tries to be subtle in almost all his actions. He alludes to his new motivations when talking about the white haired girl in the movie in ep 8. His motivation is moving on with dignity. Like the character, he came into the sect (family) without dignity but he plans to leave with it intact.

He’s not dysfunctional. Everyone wants him to be a good useful boy for their need without dignity of his own. We’re watching him navigate from that in his own quite passive way (for now). Not sure if his passive ways might change now that Luqing is being direct about his disregard.

Maybe me reading Luqing as out of control in those moments and the sister as showing some kindness is me forcing some sort of romantic kindness on them that isn’t there. I’ll admit that. I guess I really want those redeeming qualities in them somewhere. But your interpretation makes more sense. Lol

Ok. I only just realized this. But the soup isn’t just soup. If you remember, Luqing told his friend who asked why he liked Xiaofan the story about the maid and the spoon. Luqing illudes to the fact that Xiaofan caters to him like the maid, gives him what he wants, and Luqing doesn’t even have to worry about dropped spoons. I was annoyed bout the soup until I realized how the soup conversation changes throughout the drama (without saying too much). It’s not just that Xiaofan talks about the soup but how he talks about it changes and that’s the subtext.

I like debating this. As much as I want to like Luqing (romantic in me) the writing gives us to many indications that ultimately he is a fully self aware selfish and spoiled person. Ultimately, he knows Xiaofan was a person who loves and sacrifices himself for people he loves. Luqing makes the ultimatum because he sees Xiaofan’s pattern of now choosing himself and because of this, Xiaofan was outside of the small toxic bubble where others (the coworker) could see Xiaofan was worthy of love. And while it’s only a small scene, what is going on with her and Xiaofan that she SO confidently says she KNOWS him and she KNOWS about the divorce. Again, understated but dramatic. Did she mark him in front of Luqing (obviously not knowing that Luqing was the true other suitor).

But the beautiful yet bittersweet part is, without Luqing’s love then betrayal would Xiaofan ever got to the point where Xiaofan chose himself?

Your previous post got me to re-watch the episodes and I got to say, Luqing looks less and less like a romantic lead. But a very well written human piece. It’s really complex and has a lot of understated conversations that I’m sure are written that way to hint toward what they might more clearly state in the novel (haven’t read it yet).

But back to Luqing being self aware. I think he is. I think what is cool is how consistently aggressive they make him when he chooses to cross the line. Up until those points he’s self aware and keeps choosing not to cross certain boundaries.

For example, prior to when they sleep together. He’s interested in Xiaofan, keeps him close, but only goes up to watching him try on clothes. Or even the shower scene…spraying him with water so he could see but doesn’t touch. He crosses the line when Xiaofan is in front of him stripped and moaning and you see him calculate how he wasn’t going to cross that line but wants him moreover, someone else almost could have had him.

This is why Luqing’s conversations with his friend matter so much. He explains to him that Xiaofan’s love is his ideal love because he cares so much that Luqing doesn’t have to worry about a dropped spoon. He explains that Xiaofan is smarter than people gives him credit for and that Xiaofan understands people slighting him and take it to heart. He explains in another conversation that he’s always understood he could make Xiaofan’s life difficult like his friend did but he did not want that. He wants Xiaofan to choose to go back to the caregiver that doesn’t need to ask questions or drops the spoon.

This is what makes the ultimatum scene so brilliant to me. Xiaofan clearly knows what the key means. But he keeps asking him questions which he knows pisses him off. Xiaofan is once again indirectly communicating, I’m no longer the person who just knows and caters to what you want. Luqing directly responds to him, “stop being haughty, take the damn key, move in or all of this stops.” Xiaofan immediately knows what he is saying and says he will move in. Again, Luqing knows Xiaofan knows what he’s after but now aggressively crosses the line and no longer cares if Xiaofan chooses him. He’s now fine forcing him to stay and talking crap about Xiaofan’s family.

If you look at how they communicated about the soup before, there were progressive changes throughout their relationship. He never asked so many questions about the soup before. It’s a subtle jab at Luqing.

I was honestly so damn annoyed about them always talking about the soup up until this point. It’s actually kind of funny when you think that their relationships status can be gauged a bit by soup convo. Lol

Another interesting tidbit is the sister serving as foreshadowing of what could happen if you just accept the carrots the family gives. Luqing is perfectly happy letting his sister live in misery and sponsors it in exchange for her doing certain duties. The sister too, is not a true member of the family, she’s given the name, denied familial love, no emotional assurance, but financial assurance. So she lives in misery. On the surface, the argument with the family seems just about Xiaofan’s family. But with the context of what she’s already told Xiaofan, she’s absolutely sick of people believing the money from the family means happiness. She’s not family, Xiaofan’s not family, her baby would not have been family, and the family does not love…they protect interests. I’m willing to believe this about her because she also shows signs that she likes Xiaofan (not a lot but a bit). The problem is, she respects about as much as she respects herself; which is not at all. So she can defile him the way she lets herself get defiled at times.

Very consistent, I love it.

I like this interpretation. I like the possibility of Luqing just not understanding. But I think it ignores a lot of context.

In a similar scene in episode 6, Xiaofan is watching a movie, gets emotional and starts crying about the character getting cheated on. Similar to episode 9, rather apologize or give Xiaofan some type of assurance, Luqing directly responds “you don’t have to worry about that.” In the same episode, when he helps him with his parents coming to visit, he asks Xiaofan if they can go back to the way they used to be. Luqing notices the subtle ways Xiaofan is hesitant going back into a relationship with him. That’s why him getting caught having dinner with his ex is such a big deal. Xiaofan tolerated all levels of disrespect from the family, but he had no more reason to tolerate it if Luqing was just going to secretly meet his ex. Luqing is more emotionally intelligent than your giving him credit for. That’s why he recognizes Xiaofan throwing the phone and bag away is a big deal.

So, in that scene his response understands what he’s saying but he’s trying to bargain. Xiaofan may want to leave but I, Luqing, can do this for you. Which is why the ultimatum comes up a few scenes later. All this time, Luqing has been trying to coax him back. His friend reminds both Luqing and Xiaofan that Luqing always has had the power to just make the ultimatum in the previous episode. Luqing didn’t do it until he saw Xiaofan’s coworker who likes Xioafan. When she brings up the divorce, Xiaofan knows Luqing will clock that Xiaofan can build relationships outside of him. THAT is why the ultimatum is made and made that way. Xiaofan got noticed and recognized by someone other than him. Luqing now has to put him in his place or Xiaofan WILL leave because he CAN build relationships. Ultimately, that’s why Luqing got him in the first place. Xiaofan was young and had no deep relationships outside of his mother. That’s also why Luqing asks after Xiaofan’s mother. He knows Xiaofan tolerates his brother for his mother and is the reason Xiaofan hasn’t escaped. But even that relationship is rocky. That’s also why Luqing asks Xiaofan if he asked his mother when Xiaofan brings up the divorce. He knows it’s not about the disrespect of his sister toward his family. It’s about Luqing’s disrespect to him. His sister was the excuse for the outsiders.

That’s also might be why Luqing is bold enough to say Xiaofan AND his family is sucking him dry. Xiaofan has to obey the ultimatum for his family not because he’s actively loving him. I think Luqing is emotionally intelligent; he’s just less frank about ultimately being a spoiled brat like his sister and being emotionally abusive toward Xiaofan. At least his sister tells Xiaofan to get out because she can’t offer him anything and she’s destructive.

Which is also why I like the script writing and acting in this drama. So many scenes building off each other.

I don’t think it’s ill of the drama. I think we’re speaking ill of the characters. I think it speaks well of the writing that all of the characters have their vices and well of the acting that the audience can be so emotionally and invested in the impact of those character flaws. But I can admit, I’m a hopeless romantic and hope it leads to a happy ending and get ticked off when a character unromantically doesn’t progress past their flaw timely.

I thought it was an abrupt ending but it suited the drama. The clip after credits was great. I enjoyed the drama.