Platinum Fox

First, thank you so much for taking the time to write in such detail an explanation from the bl point of view. I apologize if I haven't expressed myself clearly. I am not new to bl, but I am not an expert on all things bl. So thank you for your patience and honesty. I welcome the discussion and insight.

Plus, did you watch this on Viki or some other platform? I watched it on KissKH, so I don't know how accurate the subtitles are. I have a subscription to Viki, but not Viki Plus. Viki subtitles are usually much better. So I am only basing my interpretation on the subtitles provided by Kiss KH. On Kiss KH the scene where JXS walks in on them on the hospital bed, WSW had just asked if he could be on top, and CC tells him flat out not going to happen. This is why WSW fights him off, but CC overpowers him and has sex with him anyway. We know this because WSW is walking funny in the morning when goes to visit JXS. After the experience WSW stays away from CC. I don't remember for how long. But in the meantime, there is a scene where CC asks his assistant to get him something to curb his libido. He realizes that he came on too strong and in order to keep his submissive happy he is going to have to be a lot gentler in the future. This is the beginning of him realizes that his submissives are people and have thoughts and feelings as well. Something he didn't consider with WS as WS was a submissive through and through.

In addition, yes, this drama's premise forces and grooms WSW to be the submissive if he wants to make this relationship work. So I have to disagree with you on that they have an equal relationship. Just because WSW runs the company and controls the purse strings doesn't equate to equality in the relationship. Remember everything he has is given to him by CC. And in all seriousness, if CC wanted more money than what WSW was giving him, he could have gotten it from somewhere else and wouldn't have needed to ask WSW. So the idea of WSW having power outside the home, is just an illusion. So there is definitely a power imbalance in that relationship.

The only time WSW truly has power is when CC runs the company, loses all their money, and goes to prison. What does CC do, breaks up with WSW. At this time there is no reason for WSW to stay with CC. He even states that the only reason he helps CC is because CC has been nice to him and he wants to repay that debt. It is why he sells the family home. Which CC buys back the minute he gets out of jail probably by selling his apartment. For me, that gift can be interpreted several ways: as a romantic gift, asking for forgiveness gift, or something to control WSW into staying with him. My guess is the latter as WSW has no reason to stay with him. Again, this creates an imbalance of power. Interpret this as you will.

But my original point was that WSW, for the purposes of this drama, was forced and then groomed to be a submissive in order to make this relationship work and that there is clearly an imbalance of power.

Again, thank you for your insight and the discussions. I have learned a great deal.

On the left hand side of your webpage it gives your gender as female. That is where I am getting this. If you are not, then you might want to change this as it is very confusing.

If WSW loves the sexual dynamics so much, why does he keep asking to be on top? For this drama, their dynamics works, but I have to ask how long will this dynamic last as WSW becomes more comfortable with his sexuality and knows that something different can happen in the bedroom. Also, you have forgotten that the whole premise of the drama forces WSW to become a submissive if he wants to keep his relationship with CC as CC, as everyone has explained, is 100% top. At first this submissive act is comedic as he tries to win CC's heart. However, once WSW has fallen for CC, the only way to keep him is to be a submissive. If you saw something different, I am glad.

I enjoyed the second couple more as their boundaries were clearly defined and neither one ran roughshod over the other's feelings.

Thank you for the discussion. Happy drama watching.

I have not read the novel, so my interpretation comes strictly from the drama itself. Start with the synopsis of the story. WSW tries to seduce CC (another man) because CC has stolen his girlfriend. In the process WSW "falls in love" with CC. At the beginning of the drama, WSW doesn't know that CC is gay because logic says if he knew all he has to do is just wait for the girl to find out that the man is gay and he will never have a sexual relationship with her (and we know she wants one). A break up is sure to follow pretty quickly. So essentially you have two straight people (one guy, one girl) trying to seduce a gay guy. Now, it becomes what will he have do in order to seduce him?

During the first half of the drama WSW has to play the role of the submissive because he is trying to win CC's heart. CC is 100% dominant. WSW is subject to butt slaps and other sexual advances that he successfully avoids. All of this is helped along by his gay, submissive doctor friend who advises him on all things gay. All the "sexual" scenes during this time are done for comedic effect, but it allows the audience time to get used to WSW being the submissive in the relationship. The audience, as well as WSW, are being programmed to view him as the submissive.

Now, once they start dating and it comes to their first love making session, coming from the stand point of a straight guy he would be the one on top and even asks CC to be on top. To which CC roughly responds hell no and forces him to be the submissive. We know this because the next day we all laugh when WSW is walking funny and we know why. His friend, however, is greatly concerned and asks him if he bled because he understands what it means to be the submissive. After the experience, WSW avoids CC for at least a week as he ponders whether or not he really wants to be in this relationship. He talks this over with his doctor friend who is a submissive. So you have a submissive teaching a straight guy how to be submissive. After this you never see WSW on top. There is one scene where he is giving CC a back massage, but it never turns into sex. Again, leaving the impression that WSW is just there for CC's pleasure.

The scene you mentioned could also be interpreted another way. WSW could have interpreted that as I finally get to be on top and grabs the cigarette to help him along. However, the interpretation of that scene is never shown. Again, as the audience we were programmed from the beginning to see WSW as the submissive, and we think that he is now enjoying his role as a submissive. When in reality, he is hoping that CC has changed his mind.

Because you never see WSW fully on top, the drama has groomed and forced WSW to be the submissive to complete the love story. It is helped along by CC who shuts him down every time WSW even mentions being on top and by the end when WSW completes his transformation by being called a wife by Dou Dou and CC asks him to call him hubby. In Chinese culture he has completely become the submissive as the wife is suppose to be submissive to her husband.

Also, and not to be crude, but think about what it actually means for two men to have sex. It is the only pairing where a person has a choice of whether they want to be penetrated using a sexual organ or do the penetration with a sexual organ. So I understand the 100% of both ways. If a man can find a partner who is happy with that and make him feel secure in the relationship, then go for it. However, this is not the case with CC and WSW. I give there relationship another year, and I'm betting WSW would be out the door.

Finally, one could argue that WSW was naturally a submissive as he allowed his girlfriend to determine everything in the relationship, but we see that it is different with CC.

Again, thank you for the discussion and insight.

I understand what you are saying and your interpretation of these scenes. However, in the overall plot WSW, who is literally a blank slate when it comes to bl relationships can be either a top or bottom. Throughout the drama he is forced into the submissive role for comedy sake and to win CC's heart, and then once they start dating is groomed to be the submissive to complete the "love" story. That is what bothers me. WSW had no choice, but to be the submissive if he wanted a relationship with CC. For me, that is not a healthy relationship. If it were a straight relationship, we would tell the girl to leave immediately.

I don't know if you have watched Addicted based on a novel by this same author, but there is a scene in it where the two boys take their first steps in love making. The dominant boy starts to take off the timid boy's clothes aggressively. The timid boy asks him stop and if he can be on top. The aggressive boy says, "sure" with no argument, no forcing of the timid boy to be on the bottom. It was a beautiful moment that said, "I respect you are and am willing to work with you on this issue." This is not the same as CC and WSW's relationship.

I do want to say that I appreciate all your insight with the book and drama. It has been quite enlightening.

So it is okay for WSW's boundaries to be crossed just because CC doesn't like anal sex performed on himself? I see you haven't watched Addicted. In one episode when the bl couple first talk about having sex, the dominant one starts to take off the submissive's clothes, the submissive asks him to stop and asks be on top. The dominant one says, "Sure". There was no argument, no roughly taking him, etc. It was a beautiful moment that said, "I respect who you are and your thoughts and feelings on the matter." It is not like CC who flatly refuses to be the submissive because of his macho ego.

In this drama, WSW is groomed to be CC's lover (a submissive), and his thoughts and feelings are totally disregarded in the matter. In the end, he is even okay with being called aunt by the nephew. For centuries, Chinese women (all women really) were groomed to be submissives to their husbands in every aspect of their lives. It is only in modern times that women have made advancements in being treated as equals in every aspect of their lives. For me, this drama just perpetuated that submissives (man or woman) should not have a say in their own sexual matters.

If this were a straight drama, we would tell the woman to leave her man immediately as he has no respect for you.

Now, I read your profile. It says that you are female, but in your post you claim to be a gay man. What does this say about you?

Being new to bl, I guess I find it shocking that people are going gaga over someone who mistreats people and calling it love. For me, if it were a girl and a guy we would tell the girl to immediately get out of the relationship, but here we cheer it on and even laugh. jmo

I just finished Stay with Me. I really enjoyed it, but what was that ending? I'll check out the other ones that you recommended.

Thank you for all the discussions and friend request. Happy drama watching.

Loved this drama and all of its bl undertones, but what was up with that ending? Is that how the novel ends?

The Chinese government is not releasing BL's now. Revenged Love, though Chinese, was produced by the international company VIki. The people of China are unable to watch it unless they have a certain VPN number. So Revenged Love is only for the international viewers.

Stay with Me is the CCP version of Addicted. It was produced by the state run film industry Youku. Dramas that go through this platform need be censored. Stay with Me promotes the two boys as family (brothers) rather than gay males even though there are erotic undertones. In fact the whole drama is about blended families. This is in keeping with the censors. It has 24 episodes and plays the novel, Addicted Heroin.

Addicted, even though it was produced by an independent Chinese film company. However, so it wasn't subject to censorship until it aired. When the two boys start talking about gay sex, that is when the censors banned it which was at episode 15.

It depends on what you are looking for in the drama. I have watched both and have enjoyed both as they focus on different things. Hope this helps.

Exactly! You watched Addicted and the boy who is the dominant one has a healthy outlook on what it means to be dominant. When his timid boyfriend stops him the first time they have sex and asks to be on top, he says, "Sure." No argument, no roughly taking him. This is the exact opposite of CC.

CC is mad because he lost the competition with GCY. It took three years for GCY to win, but he won. CC and GCY are rivals in everything. You understand this rivalry in the opening scenes when CC and GCY are watching the two snakes fight and CC's snake wins. He is given a terrified submissive from GCY as a gift for winning. WS is the perfect lover because he is willing to be the submissive and never challenges CC to be on top. When he learns that CC loves GCY, his power in the bedroom is lost, so devises a way to get back at both boys. Both boys are just despicable people in the beginning. Do they soften up in the end, yes, GCY more so than CC.

For me, CC remains dominate and WSW (a blank slate) becomes the perfect submissive as he challenges CC to be different through words, but CC doesn't listen to him. I don't see their relationship lasting past a couple of years as WSW will get tired of being the submissive, have made his fortune using CC's money, and look for greener pastures. The only way that relationship will last is if CC drastically changes his point view on sex. We don't know if he does, as they never show WSW on top.

As for CC and GCY, I would call what they have a bromance. Even though viewers comment that CC and GCY would make a good couple, it wouldn't last as neither one would yield in the bedroom, no matter how much they loved each other. jmo

Hope this makes sense. Happy drama watching.

What is love and how do we show it? I never said that CC didn't love WS. CC loved WS in his own way, but we have to ask why doesn't CC ask GCY to leave when WS and CC are getting lovey dovey. It is because they are rivals, and CC wants to show off that he has someone and GCY doesn't. However, CC and WS' relationship even after three years is not a very stable one because when CC and GCY kiss and CC says he loves GCY most, that shatters WS' confidence in the relationship and rightly so as what else do they have in common besides the snake farm? It sounds like they never really had heart to heart talks it was more about sex. If after three years of being together WS still can't talk to CC about what is troubling him, then that is not a stable relationship. That is just WS giving in to CC in order to keep him happy and wanting to stay.

As for CC remembering WS for six years, CC continues to run the snake farm that the two of them built together. It is still a source of rivalry with GCY (the opening scenes). Notice though that after CC kills the snake, the only mention of the snake farm is in selling it or giving it back to WS. CC is no longer interested in it and neither is GCY as they are no long in competition with each other. CC and GCY are still friends, but no longer rivals in anything.

Yes, they can. The problem is can they back it up with evidence from the drama. I can. You don't have to agree with it and can give your own interpretation. It is why I say this drama in appearance is a fluffy, simple love story. However, underneath there is something else going on. Until you have read The End of Eternity for yourself, you will never see it.

Boho, what is CC's personality? He is a dominate male. What is GCY's personality? He is a dominate male. As Jiang said two dominates would never last in a relationship as each would be fighting for control in the bedroom. This is why both men needed submissive boyfriends. CC and WS were perfect lovers in bed as WS was a submissive without argument. WS never challenged CC in anything. This created a power imbalance in their relationship and causes WS to feel insecure when he hears that CC loves GCY more. On the other hand, GCY challenged CC in all ways except in the bedroom as the two boys know that each of them are dominates and neither would stoop to being the submissive.

For me, WS had every right to do what he did to both of the boys. In the situation WS had given his heart to CC who only used him as a plaything. And he didn't mind being the play thing until GCY and CC kiss and CC says he loves GCY more. Both of these things took away all of WS's power in the bedroom. How does he fight back? He "sleeps" with the very person CC loves. With his act he took down two dominates. It cost him a relationship, but it needed to be done as both CC and Guo were very selfish lovers. If WS had confronted CC when CC was sober, CC would have broken up with him immediately as he doesn't want someone who will challenge him in the bedroom department.

Hope this helps and makes sense as I know English is not your first language.

Happy drama watching.

Actually, you have a point. Should they reconcile after everything that went down? Viewers think Shao Shang broke up with him because he abandon her to save her life on the cliff. That was not the reason why. She broke up with him because they are not on the same page as to what love is. Her and LY were on the same page, LBY and her were not. They get on the same page after they survive the burial vault. They work together to finish what Shao Shang's parents started. The two have come full circle. You do remember that Shao Shang's parents went to rescue LBY's family in the Lone City. They were too late. So essentially, it is because of his family that SS was left behind. The drama is her journey of discovery on why her parents left her behind and understanding LBY and why he is the way he is.

And you're right. There is never a moment when we can say that SS fell in love with LBY, but she tries to show him she loves him through her actions which is what LBY does. Do we ever really know when LBY falls in love with her, no. Because can you say he loves before he does what he does. Love crept up on both of them. Love in their case was learning to work together and being there for each other in an equal manner, trusting each other, and growing together. Before they broke up, they were always working on opposite sides. When they did "work together", she is the one who would figure it out and get into danger and LBY would have to rescue her. Being on the same page meant she was able to handle the situation without him rescuing her.

My opinion on The Double is that is a makjang parody and an interpretation of LLtG. One commenter even wrote if it was a remake of LLtG.

Hope this helps and makes sense. Happy drama watching

Does anyone else think that with the hairstyle in the drama that Xu Bin looks like Xu Kai? I feel like they could almost be brothers.

Youku is a China based company. All movies and dramas must past through censorship in order to be aired in China.

The reason Stay with Me can be aired is because it is not bl. It is a bromance. However, there are some very suggestive scenes in the drama that hint at bl (the bicycle scenes). Have you ever watched The Untamed. It was to be a bl, but the writers changed it to bromance to get it past the censors.

FYI: Revenged Love can air without being censored because it is not being shown in China. RL was produced by Viki which is an international company. Stay with Me was produced in Mainland China where it must get by the censors.

Also, Revenge Love is strictly about boy love, whereas Stay with Me has elements of bl in it, the little girl sings in the opening credits about the importance of family and who makes up a family which is the main theme of Stay with Me.

Thanks, I am glad I am not the only one who found the acting off. Almost dropped it after episode one because of it. Also, I found the love story between the main leads dysfunctional and toxic, not charming and sweet. The second couple's love story was beautiful.

Okay, that also answers my question. Would you date a girl whose personality is like CC? Would you date a straight boy whose personality is like CC?

Yes, they did last in the drama for a year and half, but what about three years from now or even five years from now?