Platinum Fox

I see that you come from the European time zone, and views of sexuality and gender roles are very different there than they are in China. What you are describing in your argument is the ideal world we all want to live in, but that is not the case in most Asian countries, especially China, who will not even allow bl dramas to air on the mainland. So you have to go with what the culture of the country is in order to understand what is going on in the drama. For me, you are describing Bad Buddy, not Revenged Love. Bad Buddy is Thai which is a much freer society than China. Revenged Love is a Chinese drama produced in Thailand with funds not from the Chinese government.

Again, I encourage you to watch East Palace, West Palace. It is on Tubi for free. I also encourage you to watch Flourished Peony and In the Name of Blossom. You will really start to understand what women and submissives are up against in that country.

Also, I agree with you in all aspects of your point of view. For me, I wish that was what the drama was portraying. Thank you again for your insight. Happy drama watching.

First, thank you for taking the time to explain your point of view. Not many commenters do that. Also, thank you for clarifying the use of the terms. I want to say that I see what you are saying and am glad that others are enjoying this drama. I enjoyed the second couple, but not the first.

Your clarification of the term just supported my argument. The fact that the Chinese language has no term for a man who takes the submissive role in a relationship or as a marriage partner and must identify as a female shows that this type of relationship is not acceptable. Even in the United States when gay marriage became legal, the government had to come up with a term to name that type of marriage. I would suggest you watch the movie East Palace, West Palace which was written by a man. It explains a great deal about the Chinese perspective of submissives in a gay relationship. However, I know from your profile that you do not like raw and gritty. That's okay, but it goes a long way in explaining my point of view of this drama.

Also, I see that you have watched Bad Buddy. That drama was written by a gay man for other gay men. Notice that in the relationship you really can't tell who is the dominant or the submissive as there is a mutual understanding that both can be dominant or submissive. They have a healthy relationship in the bedroom as well as in other aspects of their daily life.

Even your explanation of CC allowing him to run the company and take care of the finances at home suggests that WSW has taken on the submissive role as the female in Chinese culture is the one who runs the home and takes care of the family finances. As for CC allowing him to run that company, that is just to appease WSW for the inequality found in the bedroom. The money that went into the company to begin with came from CC. If CC wanted money he had other places to go and get it. So your argument that CC allowed him to run the company to show equality in the relationship is debatable. Watch the straight drama Flourished Peony and In the Name of Blossom, and you will understand what I am talking about with this concept. Again, Revenged Love is a danmei. It was written by a woman for other women. It allows women to explore their sexuality in a different way. Can women be dominants in a relationship or are they doomed to always being the submissive?

I see where you and other commenters are coming from; I just don't happen to agree with the message that the first couple is sending for men or for women. Is WSW exploring his sexuality as a gay man or defining what it means to be a woman in a straight relationship? Can he be doing both?

Thank you for the discussion. Happy drama watching!

Do you know the reason for why they would hide it? I find that rather strange.

First, I want to say that there is nothing wrong or shameful about being a submissive if that is your sexual preference. However, in this drama WSW is forced and groomed to be Chi Cheng's lover which means he must be a submissive if he wants his plan to work. The whole scene with the girlfriend breaking up with him already shows that he is primed to be a submissive as he allows his girlfriend to determine their relationship. She only breaks up with him because he is not living up to the man's responsibility of making enough money to provide for his family. She doesn't want to work, that is why she wants a rich husband. So his gender role has been taken away from him first by Yue Yue and then CC and CC's family. This is perpetuated by two very telling scenes in the drama.

First, when Chi Cheng wants WSW to call him hubby, but Chi Cheng will not call WSW hubby nor wife. He just calls him by his name. So to Chi Cheng WSW is neither man nor woman, so WSW's gender identity has disappeared. This can be a good thing, but in this drama it is a bad thing because WSW wants to retain his masculinity, but doesn't because of the other telling scene when the nephew refers to WSW as a female rather than a male and no one corrects him. This could easily have been corrected without even talking about sex, but they didn't. Even WSW doesn't, because he feels that the family has now accepted him. In addition, by the end, WSW is entirely dependent upon CC and even says so (so what makes WSW any different than Yue Yue). In this sense he has taken on the gender sexual identity of the woman according to Chinese culture.

Now sexually, when WSW decides that he likes CC, he is literally a blank slate when it comes to gay relationships He is a completely new person and can decide to be a dominant or a submissive. But because the person he loves is a dominant, the only way to make that relationship work is for him to be a submissive. When he does become the submissive he gives up the very thing that makes him a man. In most cultures, including China, the sexually submissive role is female.

If WSW were a woman we would tell her to get away from CC quickly, not completely change who she is to fulfill her man's every whim all for the sake of money.

I do agree with you that many people do have identities based on social, cultural expectations, and conditioning that may not be their true selves. This drama is a danmei. A story written by a woman for other women to explore their sexuality through the plot device of boy love. WSW has been emasculated in every aspect of his life to show this and is essentially Cinderella.

I know you wrote me before and deleted it. Hope this helps you understand where I am coming from. For me, nothing justifies the relationship portrayed by the first couple. The second couple I can get on board with as GCY's character does a complete 180.

Thank you for the discussion and your insight.

The opening episode is to show the cruel nature of Chi Cheng and Guo Cheng Yu and throughout the drama this cruel nature will change. In the end, their characters dramatically soften. GCY does a complete 180. CC's character does soften, and viewers say that it is because WSW has him wrapped around his little finger. My question is, in order for this to happen, WSW has to give up his identity and experience a very unpleasant sexual experience. We would tell a woman to get out quick, but here it is glorified as love. jmo

So I totally agree with you.

Yes, and by the end WSW goes from being straight to gay and a guy to a woman. That says a great deal.

Yes, there are plenty of straight dramas where the opening episode is about rape, and we hope those women get out of the relationship as quickly as possible. The fact that by the end WSW has gone from straight to gay and a guy to a woman says a great deal. Would we tell a woman to stay in a relationship where the man rapes her? Would we tell a woman to change her very being just to please a man? No, but that is what this drama perpetuates, especially with the first couple. WSW's very being and identity has been changed in order to please Chi Cheng.

Now, you could argue that WSW as a man was predetermined to be a submissive as he allowed his girlfriend to run the relationship, thus making him the perfect choice for Chi Cheng. But WSW knows there is something different out there and wants to experience it. The fact that he is unable to with Chi Cheng or is too scared to do that makes him dependent upon Chi Cheng's every whim. We tell women not to do this, but we perpetuate this in bl dramas?

This is just my opinion and as you said everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That scene is meant to show the cruel nature of Chi Cheng and the fact that this nature, even though it softens, is still there in the end. It has just become more subtle.

One thing I have noticed about Hong Kong action movies is the comedy and the need to keep everyone alive, even the bad guys.

I know it's been two years, but you can watch it on Tubi for free. I loved the bulldozer scenes as well.

It is not the age gap that bothers people. It is the ages of Sang Zhi and DJX at the beginning that concerned viewers. Throughout the drama Sang Zhi is technically a child because she is not of marriageable age (20 for females). However, she is considered old enough to have sex with anyone age 14 and up (age of consent). She does not turn into a full adult until the end of the drama. On the other hand, DJX is basically an adult throughout the drama. The only time he is still a child is when he is 19 as is he not of marriageable age (22 for males). So a five year age gap isn't a huge age gap, but it makes a huge difference as to when that age gap occurs.

Hope this helps. You're right five years is not a huge difference, except when she is 14 and he 19 and also when she is 17 and he is 22. This is very intentional by the writer as this is a social commentary on the age of consent law which is 14. The Chinese people are working hard to get it changed, but no luck. If you can't change a law, change the people's mindset about the law.

It is not the age gap that bothers people. It is the ages of Sang Zhi and DJX at the beginning that concerned viewers. Throughout the drama Sang Zhi is technically a child because she is not of marriageable age (20 for females). However, she is considered old enough to have sex with anyone age 14 and up. She does not turn into a full adult until the end of the drama. On the other hand, DJX is basically an adult throughout the drama. The only time he is still a child is when he is 19 as is he not of marriageable age (22 for males). So a five year age gap isn't a huge age gap, but it makes a huge difference as to when that age gap occurs.

Hope this helps. You're right five years is not a huge difference, except when she is 14 and he 19 and also when she is 17 and he is 22.

Love how they use a Romeo and Juliet moment (the cat scene) in this romantic comedy.

No, I made it half way through the first episode and had to drop it due to one of the male lead's bad acting. However, I heard I need to give the drama at least 6 episodes before it turns better. Don't know if I can make it that far with the bad acting. Also, fantasy is not my favorite genre. However, I would like to watch it because of all the references people make to it.

Also, I skipped like two episodes of this drama because they were about war and not much else (episode 38 and 39).

Hope this helps. This drama was one of the few fantasy dramas I could watch mainly because of the chemistry between Zhao Lu Si and Yang Yang.

Good luck and happy drama watching.

I love how viewers want HBY and NN to have a traditional wedding when they are by far not a traditional couple. If they had gone ahead with the traditional marriage, everything that NN had worked for would have been lost. For me, their wedding started at about 32 minutes in the last episode with them paying respects to the empress and HBY's family (looking at the night sky). Then proceeded to say their vows to each other with their parents looking on in approval. They are in a military camp, him wearing the very cape he met her in and her wearing the reverse of her cape at the festival. It was a beautiful and fitting wedding. jmo

If you are looking for romance, for me, Yang Yang and Zhao Lu Si deliver. If you are not really into political dramas, I would stop, as this just keeps getting more political.

This was my first Cdrama and it made me want to watch more, especially those with Zhao Lu Si. Yang Yang is a hit or miss for me. I have dropped many "popular" dramas well after 18 episodes, so its okay. Not the end of world if you don't like it or drop it.

Yes, Zhao Lu Si is not just an actor. She is a social activist. Every role she plays speaks out against or for some social aspect of Chinese culture. Even when she plays the "villain" in Untouchable Lovers, her character speaks out about using women as pawns to boost the family status.

This drama is no different. Yes, it talks about bullying, education for women, and the sins of the father not affecting the son, but also about the age of consent. As I wrote before, they are trying to get the age of consent law changed to 16, but are not having any luck.

Using The End of Eternity (TEE) as a guide, the writer managed to produce a social commentary about the age of consent without saying it is right or wrong. TEE is about the use of nuclear energy. If you can't change a law, change the people's mindset about the law. This drama is a cautionary tale and a modern retelling of Little Red Hood. Not every guy is going to be a green forest.

The controversy that Erica talks about is very intentional as the writer wants viewers to think about the pairings of 14/19 and 17/22. While legal, at both ages the child (male or female) is still a child. The height and maturity level are still those of a child. Our definition of childhood has changed from a 100 years ago. It is why she talks in a childish voice when she 17. She continues to talk like a child even at 19 because by law she is not old enough to marry, so in a sense she is still a child even though she is legal in consent and age of majority.

This generation of Chinese will hopefully change the law when they grow up! To change something takes time.

Hope this makes sense.

During a battle Bai Feng is injured to the point of death. Hei Feng gives her most of his life force in order to save her. It is why his hair goes from black to white and she must stop calling him Black Fox. Why the magic number of ten, I don't know, but that seems to be the magic number in all fantasy dramas.

Hope this helps.

Yes, they are products that Zhao Lu Si at one time promoted, but in the drama they have very symbolic meanings. This drama almost didn't air because the first director backed out, and they lost their sponsors. Zhao Lu Si asked the companies that she promoted to sponsor the drama. This was such a well thought out production and script. jmo

Yes, the flashbacks complete the story. This imitates Harlan's (the main character in The End of Eternity -TEE), tube that takes him from the past to the present to the future. If you notice when they are on the bike ride, the petals from the trees fall behind and in front of them, but never on them. That's because the love they have for each other at the time is secret from the other. Perception plays a huge role in this drama. This concept is found in TEE. Even the title of the book, The End of Eternity, reflects the main theme of the entire drama. My favorite easter eggs are the creative use of the product placement as they also enhance the themes of the drama.

You really should read The End of Eternity. It will bring this drama to whole new level for you. Happy drama watching. It is definitely not a fluffy, simple love story that everyone is making it out to be.

Thank you for your insight and discussion.

Once you do, you will understand the story structure and why they changed the age gap to five years. Many concepts found in the drama are found in the novel. For viewers who think this is just a fluffy, simple love story, they are right, but so much more is going on. Also, have you caught all the "hidden" easter eggs? The trees were just one of them.